Yes, you would be the prisoners -- but there could be several reasons. The kitsune might have seduced a hogoblin noble or beat them at a game of chance, or some other issue. They could all be in prison for a different reason.
I'm still thinking of build rules. I'm thinking of mechanically for this set, the theme will be 'gross' combat like an old kung fu movies or guinea pig horror. We'd use expanded critical hit rules to have characters sawing off limbs and such.
I do like goblinoids. I've been following the thread and building up the idea of a Blue "fixer" in my head. He'd be in prison for crimes he absolutely committed which would have been fine except that the noble who hired him ran afoul of the council of nine for unrelated reasons while he was on the mission. The old employer is dead now, and the fixer doesn't hold his bad luck against him in particular (he knew the risk when he took the job,) but he'd be happy to enlist in a mission to gain his freedom and access to influential future clients.
Yes, you would be the prisoners -- but there could be several reasons. The kitsune might have seduced a hogoblin noble or beat them at a game of chance, or some other issue. They could all be in prison for a different reason.
I'm still thinking of build rules. I'm thinking of mechanically for this set, the theme will be 'gross' combat like an old kung fu movies or guinea pig horror. We'd use expanded critical hit rules to have characters sawing off limbs and such.
Still thinking gestalt/morestalt? What about requiring one of the intrigue classes from that list I made? Just trying to maybe begin putting together a concept.
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As I suggested a couple of posts up, this is going to be a campaign where you end up playing more than one character -- I don't think the spies will be 16th level, but I need to think about build rules. It will involve some kind of gestalt.
As I suggested a couple of posts up, this is going to be a campaign where you end up playing more than one character -- I don't think the spies will be 16th level, but I need to think about build rules. It will involve some kind of gestalt.
I'm cool with that, and yeah, probably doesn't make sense for the spies(are they prisoners?) to be such a high level. I would suggest capping them at around 10th, and wouldn't go much below 5th.
I suggest 6th level, gestalt or tristalt, 40 point buy, no templates and no HOPF. 2-3 Feats per level plus bonus feats from classes and race etc.
We're going to use a version of unearthed arcana's method of rolling. You use these tables and take the 3 best. Like barbarian you roll 8d6 for strength, 7d6 for dex, etc. You use the closest thing if it's not on the table.
I think you'll get a few sets, I need to see.
Barbarian.....8d6....7d6.....6d6.....3d6....5d6.....4d6
Bard...........6d6....7d6.....4d6.....5d6....3d6.....8d6
Cleric..........5d6....4d6.....6d6.....3d6....8d6.....7d6
Druid...........6d6....7d6.....5d6.....3d6....8d6.....4d6
Fighter........8d6....6d6.....7d6.....5d6....4d6.....3d6
Monk..........6d6.....7d6.....5d6.....4d6....8d6.....3d6
Paladin........7d6....4d6.....5d6......3d6....6d6.....8d6
Ranger........7d6.....8d6.....5d6.....3d6....6d6.....4d6
Rogue.........6d6.....8d6.....3d6.....7d6....4d6.....5d6
Sorceror......4d6....7d6.....6d6......5d6....3d6.....8d6
Wizard........3d6....7d6......6d6.....8d6....5d6.....4d6
For race, I'm thinking of giving everyone extra RP to customize their race more, so you could have a super big hobgoblin breed, or a slightly magical one etc.
I think for the gestalt, you have to pick one that's in the list that Monkeymade (the +6 skill ones), I want to put restrictions on the 2nd to, like it has to be fighter and some other limited set of classes like cavalier. The third you can pick whatever you want.
I'll come up with bench pressing numbers and a sample monster too.
I think for the gestalt, you have to pick one that's in the list that Monkeymade (the +6 skill ones), I want to put restrictions on the 2nd to, like it has to be fighter and some other limited set of classes like cavalier. The third you can pick whatever you want.
Honestly, I wouldn't restrict the 2nd class at all. Especially with the spies/prisoner group of PCs. As I said when I PM'd you, one of the biggest attractions for your games is the ability to play pretty much anything you want.
The more limitations you put on PCs, the less able you are to do that.
Though, I am curious why are you considering a restriction on the 2nd class?
I'm trying to limit it to utility like more skill points or combat feats, not whole other suites of powers and synergies
I absolutely hate rolling for stats. Can we just get a point buy or create some sort of array? Even if it's worth less than the average for rolling.
3d6 = Average Value: 10.5, Point Buy = 0
4d6 = Average Value: 14, Point Buy = 5
5d6 = Average Value: 17.5, Point Buy = 13
6d6 = Average Value: 21, Point Buy = 31
7d6 = Average Value: 24.5, Point Buy = 50
8d6 = Average Value: 28, Point Buy = 82
19 = 17 + 4 = 21
20 = 21 + 5 = 26
21 = 26 + 5 = 31
22 = 31 + 6 = 37
23 = 37 + 6 = 43
24 = 43 + 7 = 50
25 = 50 + 7 = 57
26 = 57 + 8 = 65
27 = 65 + 8 = 73
28 = 73 + 9 = 82
Total Point Buy = 82 + 50 + 31 + 13 + 5 + 0 = 181 point buy
Divided by 6 is about 30, so how about an array of: [21, 21, 21, 21, 21, 21]?
Or, as penalty for not rolling, [20, 20, 20, 20, 20, 20] ?
Alternatively, the true average value between all numbers seems to be 19.25, so an array of [19, 19, 19, 19, 19, 19] might be more fair.
You're misunderstanding I think, you take the best three values out of 8d6 or whatever, not add them up, or I really don't understand the calculations you're making.
Kaouse does seem to be finding the expected values without dropping all but the top three.
For those interested, the expected values should be:
3d6: 10.5
4d6 keep 3: 12.24
5d6 keep 3: 13.43
6d6 keep 3: 14.27
7d6 keep 3: 14.90
8d6 keep 3: 15.39
The most common rolls (in order) would be: 10 or 11 (tied), 13, 14, 15, 16, 16. Basically a 35 or 36 point buy. Not that this would be the expected value of the point buy, but it's a not completely unreasonable approximation perhaps.
For what it's worth, my poor hypothetical barbarian that I'm rolling up right now would have an 11 strength. That sort of result will come up about 2.3% of the time for the highest stat. I'd be happier with a point buy option as well if it's possible, but that's just a preference for predictability in builds.
See, I like rolling. It’s fun to add some randomness into the build.
I'm really split about the rolling, especially with this different dice amount for different stats per class.
How is that even supposed to work for a gestalt/tristalt?
Do i have to choose a primary class?
In my opinion 40 point buy is the best option.
Strong, but still balanced and it's actually the equivalent of a 4d6 build.
I don’t have a firm plan just yet, but I was wondering how gestalt would handle a rolling system like that, as Hayato was. Why not let us roll the various die groups, then apply them however we want?
I'm still thinking about how exactly it will work -- I might take Ouachitonian's suggestion and give you an array to do; I might also let you use the best value for each attribute our of six sets. So, you'd have to set the array, and then you can try it six times and make the best set out of those, but you can't for example, use a dex roll for str or something like that.
I want you to have high values, but I'm shying away from point buy because I think that makes it totally mechanical -- I'd like to have the possibility you anonamously have a high or low value in a non primary attribute as a role-playing opportunity.
I'm strongly thinking about two possibilities tristalt: everyone is fighter/everyone is +6 skill class/free choice or a quadralt with two free choices, but the other ones are locked into fighter and +6.
I do like that element of rolling. “Uh, why does your barbarian have 18 INT?” “I don’t know man, I rolled really well.”
I’d lean away from quad gestalt. That’s just such a bonkers power level. Three is more than enough. I’d still rather do Gestalt+Mythic Than even tristalt. It’s a much easier build.
I do like that element of rolling. “Uh, why does your barbarian have 18 INT?” “I don’t know man, I rolled really well.”
I’d lean away from quad gestalt. That’s just such a bonkers power level. Three is more than enough. I’d still rather do Gestalt+Mythic Than even tristalt. It’s a much easier build.
If we're going to do that, we might as well just use the rules I usually use, except I'll give bench-pressing benchmarks.
So the tristalt or quadralt are actually more appealing to me because of the flexibility rather than the power (mythic seems like more of a power add than gestalt does.) The fixer that I'd been playing around with when I was theorycrafting was looking like it would be an Investigator (Empiricist) / Armiger / Cryptic (Brutal Distruptor) / Harbinger. They all add different aspects to both the theme the utility that I was looking for. Clearly not all combinations of classes can do that, but putting a theme together with classes and archetypes is a big part of the appeal to building a character like this for me.
I suppose that I'd be swapping out probably armiger for fighter if we did the proposed quadralt here. And dropping Cryptic or Harbinger for a tristalt.
Clearly a tremendously fun character can be made with "just" gestalt and mythic, but there's so much system space to play around with at this point that the original proposed builds strike me as more interesting.
I want you to have high values, but I'm shying away from point buy because I think that makes it totally mechanical -- I'd like to have the possibility you anonamously have a high or low value in a non primary attribute as a role-playing opportunity.
I'm not sure how to pull this off aside from rolling. Even if you give us an array, you can still pick how where you place those stats.
What if we do something similar to Way of the Wicked's Focus/Foible:
Pick one stat as your Focus, which is automatically high(in WotW, an 18). Pick your Foible, which is automatically low(in WotW, an 8).
We then roll to determine the other stats. In WotW, you roll 1d10+7, but in order.(Ex, if you're a fighter, you can make Str your Focus and Int your Foible. You then roll 1d10+7, first stat is Dex, then Con, etc).
We can obviously increase the automatic stats as well as the die pool, but I would strong recommend not having us roll in order.
I'm strongly thinking about two possibilities tristalt: everyone is fighter/everyone is +6 skill class/free choice or a quadralt with two free choices, but the other ones are locked into fighter and +6.
Why not have it be one intrigue class and one class that has a good BAB?
I can put together another list of those classes for you, and this way, the PCs end up with a lot more variety.
I thought of samurai warrior poet/uc ninja so far, might add mesmerist, bard or sorcerer, or even insinuator antipaladin.
I would prefer point buy. Rolling can bring huge discrepancies to a group and then the bench pressing idea is difficult again.
So the tristalt or quadralt are actually more appealing to me because of the flexibility rather than the power (mythic seems like more of a power add than gestalt does.) The fixer that I'd been playing around with when I was theorycrafting was looking like it would be an Investigator (Empiricist) / Armiger / Cryptic (Brutal Distruptor) / Harbinger. They all add different aspects to both the theme the utility that I was looking for. Clearly not all combinations of classes can do that, but putting a theme together with classes and archetypes is a big part of the appeal to building a character like this for me.
I suppose that I'd be swapping out probably armiger for fighter if we did the proposed quadralt here. And dropping Cryptic or Harbinger for a tristalt.
Clearly a tremendously fun character can be made with "just" gestalt and mythic, but there's so much system space to play around with at this point that the original proposed builds strike me as more interesting.
It's true that Mythic is a bigger power jump, but it's also one that adds flexibility. I mean, being able to cast any spell on your class list, even if you haven't prepped it for the day, is powerful but also hugely flexible. And really, even some gestalt builds have more options than actions. Tristalt and above give you more options than you can actually use. How helpful is it to have three things to do with your swift action when you have one swift action per turn?
Besides that, there's actually building the character. I, and surely others, generally build in HeroLab, which has an option for gestalt, an option for mythic, an option to add class levels to a monster, but not for tristalt and above. I can build a Gestalt Sorcerer/Paladin 20 Archmage 10 Great Wyrm Gold Dragon in HeroLab right now. I can't build a Tristalt Fighter/Rogue/Sorcerer at all. Adding the third class by hand is, of course, doable. But it's a lot harder.
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It's true that Mythic is a bigger power jump, but it's also one that adds flexibility. I mean, being able to cast any spell on your class list, even if you haven't prepped it for the day, is powerful but also hugely flexible. And really, even some gestalt builds have more options than actions. Tristalt and above give you more options than you can actually use. How helpful is it to have three things to do with your swift action when you have one swift action per turn?
Besides that, there's actually building the character. I, and surely others, generally build in HeroLab, which has an option for gestalt, an option for mythic, an option to add class levels to a monster, but not for tristalt and above. I can build a Gestalt Sorcerer/Paladin 20 Archmage 10 Great Wyrm Gold Dragon in HeroLab right now. I can't build a Tristalt Fighter/Rogue/Sorcerer at all. Adding the third class by hand is, of course, doable. But it's a lot harder.
First up, the important bit. I have no issue at all with what you're saying. We're going to put different spins on some of the topics, but you're describing your preferences and I'm describing mine. That they don't match up exactly is absolutely fine.
For your second point, as someone who doesn't and hasn't used HeroLab, it's not a major consideration for me, but I can see why it would shape your preference.
For flexibility vs. power, I agree that for some classes adding the ability to cast any spell from your spell list is a nice boost in flexibility. If you're including, for example, a wizard or cleric as part of your gestalt that's a really nice boost for different things you can do with an swift action. It increases with level and it's also not the only way that Mythic can increase flexibility, but gets to be less of a flexibility bonus for gestalts that don't pick as varied a spell list (6 level caster, characters without a spell list at all, etc ...) I think that adding an entirely new classes set of abilities (spells, powers, whatever comes with the class,) will usually trump that flexibility for me, but mileage will certainly vary from build to build.
For the swift action bottleneck, you're certainly right that it's a thing. For some classes it comes up even before you try to add anything like mystic, gestalt, morestalt or whatever (Warpriest springs immediately to mind, but I'm sure there are plenty of others.) If you're talking about mystic and adding the ability to cast any spell, that's going to eat the swift action just as much as any class ability would. Not being able to gain extra swift actions in (almost) any way is one of the big limiters on any of the characters we'd be building using these expanded rule sets.
I guess that when I talk about the extra classes adding flexibility, I'm not expecting to use them all at the same time, but having more options to deal with a variety of situations. There are bonuses that will simply get added all the time (I view that as more of a power boost,) but having more tools to deal with different types of obstacles, or more limited shot abilities to spread out over the day is where the extra class features shine for me.
That’s all entirely fair, and you’re right that we’re partly aiming at different things. I do like the flexibility of being able to do multiple things in one build that gestalt provides, but I still tend to build for synergy at one thing or a narrow range, rather than, say, effectively using one class for combat and another for out of combat type skills, or one for range and another for close-up, which sounds like the sort of thing you’re doing. That’s an interesting way of doing it.
It's true that Mythic is a bigger power jump, but it's also one that adds flexibility. I mean, being able to cast any spell on your class list, even if you haven't prepped it for the day, is powerful but also hugely flexible. And really, even some gestalt builds have more options than actions. Tristalt and above give you more options than you can actually use. How helpful is it to have three things to do with your swift action when you have one swift action per turn?
Besides that, there's actually building the character. I, and surely others, generally build in HeroLab, which has an option for gestalt, an option for mythic, an option to add class levels to a monster, but not for tristalt and above. I can build a Gestalt Sorcerer/Paladin 20 Archmage 10 Great Wyrm Gold Dragon in HeroLab right now. I can't build a Tristalt Fighter/Rogue/Sorcerer at all. Adding the third class by hand is, of course, doable. But it's a lot harder.
Sebs other games already are gestalt and mythic, and while I am unsure about what they want out of this new game, one of the reasons I suggested morestalt was to allow for something different.
While you can get extra classes via taking the gestalt horrifically OP feat in a normal Seb game, that only gets you so much. You only get half your HD in class features, and only the ones listed under 'special'. Ie, no spellcasting, no maneuvers, no vielweaving, or spherecasting, etc.
I wanna explore concepts and characters using Seb's general rules that have a 3rd or 4th class, because I think it could be really interesting and different than what I could pull off otherwise.
"and while I am unsure about what they want out of this new game"
I'm a male of the species
"and while I am unsure about what they want out of this new game"
I'm a male of the species
Yeah, I was fairly certain you were, but I also didn't know if you wanted people to know that. I know some people who are super paranoid about randos on the internet knowing literally anything about who or what they are IRL.
I wanna explore concepts and characters using Seb's general rules that have a 3rd or 4th class, because I think it could be really interesting and different than what I could pull off otherwise.
I'm really just observing this thread, but as a hypothetical question (and something I have always wondered), does moresalt really add different options?
I mean, from a power perspective, sure, you get 'more stuff' but isn't there a risk you have all the PC's doing similar things / looking the same? This goes double if the plans for a limited class option list (for gestalt) goes ahead. With four classes, an Oracle / Sorcerer / Paladin / Bard probably covers almost everything I would ever want in a party. How many opportunities is Player B (who went something else) going to get to shine?
I'm really just observing this thread, but as a hypothetical question (and something I have always wondered), does moresalt really add different options?
I mean, from a power perspective, sure, you get 'more stuff' but isn't there a risk you have all the PC's doing similar things / looking the same? This goes double if the plans for a limited class option list (for gestalt) goes ahead. With four classes, an Oracle / Sorcerer / Paladin / Bard probably covers almost everything I would ever want in a party. How many opportunities is Player B (who went something else) going to get to shine?
How many actions does your OraSorcAdArd get per round? Maybe 3 or 4, max? Especially if we're around 10th level or less.
You're not gonna be able to solve all the problems, defeat all the monsters and 'win' on your own. There's a reason D&D, at it's core, is designed to be a 4+ player game.
Your proposed character might be a front line tank, but you're likely not dealing a ton of damage. Aside from smite, none of those classes include extra damage. I suppose you could pick a bloodline and mystery that added some, but nothing near what a rogue/investigator/inquisitor/slayer(etc) could deal.
Your also lacking much in the way of skills. Granted, I'm sure you could take some spells to help overcome many skill based challenges, but then you're not dealing with a different threat or obstacle as well.
You'll do solid on knowledge checks, but not nearly as well as if you built a PC dedicated towards that.
Again, there's a lot you can do as a gestalt/tristalt/morestalt, but you're still going to be limited by the number of actions you can take, the number of spells known, the amount you can cast per day, etc.
I guess what some are missing is that in the last games the action economy from pf2 or unchained was used.
So the swift actin thing is different as are attacks and spells.
Tristalt can really add a lot more if done right.
And mythic is more difficult to balance in my eyes. Adds a lot more power.
Tristalt can really add a lot more if done right.
And mythic is more difficult to balance in my eyes. Adds a lot more power.
Yeah, I would prefer to avoid mythic(at least at the start) and either limit or not use the horrifically overpowered feats, as they too add a ton of power.
You're not gonna be able to solve all the problems, defeat all the monsters and 'win' on your own. There's a reason D&D, at it's core, is designed to be a 4+ player game.
You are absolutely right, traditionally D&D is, at its core, a four person party, often with each player fulfilling or covering a defined role. Which is often why a 'core' party usually boils down to Martial / Skill Monkey / Divine / Arcane as its 4 roles. This is not an absolute given, but in my (terribly limited) example, in one morestalt character I'm covering all the defined roles of a traditional party. What else is being brought to the table besides more of the same?
My point was more concern about character overlap, rather than claiming "Who needs a party" or "I can solo this". As you pointed out, action economy is indeed a thing. I'm mostly just querying whether adding more gestalt classes (ie morestalt) is actually creating more versatility in the end. Mechanically, class by class I might be slightly different, but I kinda do the same *thing* right?
Anyway, I'm probably is probably getting off topic / out of scope. For the reasons I outlined, Mythic is probably better (in terms of reducing character role overlap) but it does come with its obvious pitfalls (like difficulty balancing, as well as people just wanting to try something different from mythic).
Your proposed character might be a front line tank, but you're likely not dealing a ton of damage. Aside from smite, none of those classes include extra damage. I suppose you could pick a bloodline and mystery that added some, but nothing near what a rogue/investigator/inquisitor/slayer(etc) could deal.
Inspire Courage? The bonus is about what Studied Target / Judgment is (depending what level you settle on but high level is high level). Sure, Slayer also gets Sneak Attack but its a bit rough to claim a bard doesn't add any extra damage :(
Also, I'm a 9/9th level Arcane / Divine caster. If I'm not Smiting or using Inspire Courage I'm probably quickening a buff spell, or cast a blast spell. All four classes have various spellcasting, I should be drowning in available options!
Your also lacking much in the way of skills. Granted, I'm sure you could take some spells to help overcome many skill based challenges, but then you're not dealing with a different threat or obstacle as well.
Am I really that badly off though for skills? I'm 6+INT. If I go Lore Mystery, then I get a free INT bonus (if I was feeling particularly short changed). I have Versatile Performance, I have access to masterpieces like Pageant of the Peacock, I have Charisma to Knowledge skills (+ Bardic Knowledge), Lore Master and yes, access to the Bard/Paladin/Sorcerer/Oracle spell list. I might not be able to max out every single skill in the game, but I'm probably covering 90% of most situations.
I don't think character role overlap has been a problem so far.
In plenty of games where hopf is used Tristalt+ plus mythic is already the case.
Hugest problem has been balancing encounters, but lower and more similar stats (aka no rolling please) as well as leaving away templates will likely solve that.
I want you to have high values, but I'm shying away from point buy because I think that makes it totally mechanical -- I'd like to have the possibility you anonamously have a high or low value in a non primary attribute as a role-playing opportunity.I'm not sure how to pull this off aside from rolling.
...
There is a way. Dragon magazine (issue 346 august 2006) put out one of my favorite methods.
You use tokens equal to point buy points, then use a Three Dragon Ante deck in a tarot-like spread. Each card represents a concept or an ability score. All your points are then distributed according to the drawn cards.
This means everyone has the same build points, but there is some randomness in where the points go. Additionally, the cards in each position can act as reference for rp aspects of the character.
You could use that as is, or you could have certain cards unlock lists of available classes.
You can go full random here or swap a couple cards to have some influence.
I'm really just observing this thread, but as a hypothetical question (and something I have always wondered), does moresalt really add different options?Gestalt adds flexibility but not as much power as it's reputation would have you believe (unless you get full spellslots from all your spellcasting classes. In some communities that is standard, while in others, characters only get the highest number of slots from a single class for each spell-level.)
Traditional classes usually provide spotlight protection. Gestalt can infringe on that, but it doesn't always. Further, depending on the players, spotlight protection may or may not be needed.
Gestalt also in some cases makes certain archetypes easier to do or more believable (a professional soldier in a world where anyone can learn magic will know magic. It would be very implausible for soldiers to not know magic when they are able to learn it. Though, some...
That stat generation method sounds like a good compromise. I'm going to have to see if I can find that issue...
Unless I'm misunderstanding, this method gets rid of potentially low rolls, but which points are placed into which stat are completely random?
Not sure I really like that.
Seb, curious what your thoughts were on my Focus/Foible method above??
How would you even do that online?
Not sure if i am a fan of this.
I also don't really understand this we have to roll thing at the moment.
I want you to have high values, but I'm shying away from point buy because I think that makes it totally mechanical -- I'd like to have the possibility you anonamously have a high or low value in a non primary attribute as a role-playing opportunity.I'm not sure how to pull this off aside from rolling.
...
There is a way. Dragon magazine (issue 346 august 2006) put out one of my favorite methods.
You use tokens equal to point buy points, then use a Three Dragon Ante deck in a tarot-like spread. Each card represents a concept or an ability score. All your points are then distributed according to the drawn cards.
This means everyone has the same build points, but there is some randomness in where the points go. Additionally, the cards in each position can act as reference for rp aspects of the character.
You could use that as is, or you could have certain cards unlock lists of available classes.
You can go full random here or swap a couple cards to have some influence.
I'm really just observing this thread, but as a hypothetical question (and something I have always wondered), does moresalt really add different options?Gestalt adds flexibility but not as much power as it's reputation would have you believe (unless you get full spellslots from all your spellcasting classes. In some communities that is standard, while in others, characters only get the highest number of slots from a single class for each spell-level.)
Traditional classes usually provide spotlight protection. Gestalt can infringe on that, but it doesn't always. Further, depending on the players, spotlight protection may or may not be needed.
Gestalt also in some cases makes certain archetypes easier to do or more believable (a professional soldier in a world where anyone can learn magic will know magic. It would be very implausible for soldiers to not know magic when they are able to learn it. Though, some...
That sounds like it could play havoc with building a character. “So, I want to build a barbarian.” *Randomly draws 13 for Strength.* Well, crap. “Ok, I’ll do a Dex-based frontliner.” *Randomly draws 14 for Dex.* “Seriously!? Uh, guys? Someone else is going to have to take the frontliner.” With normal rolling you can at least prioritise the stats that are most important for what you want to build, instead of basically needing to draw first and then play what you can. Or am I misunderstanding?
Yeah i think that is the least thing we need here, a journey to the days of older editions where you could end up playing a wizard with 18 strength and 7 intelligence.
Game design has evolved for some reasons since then and that minmax argument is opening a can of worms.
Please don't dive an further into that.
Incorrect. It is still possible to end up with no points in a stat. Further, it is very easy to modify.
Why would I ever want to use a method where I could end up with no points in a stat? I would much rather just choose to keep a stat low.
I also have no desire to randomly assign my stats in an apparently totally random fashion.
Rolling my stats is fine, so long as I can choose which results go in which ability score.
I still think the Focus/Foible method is best, if Seb is adamant on not using point buy(which I do vastly prefer):
What if we do something similar to Way of the Wicked's Focus/Foible:
Pick one stat as your Focus, which is automatically high(in WotW, an 18). Pick your Foible, which is automatically low(in WotW, an 8).
We then roll to determine the other stats. In WotW, you roll 1d10+7, but in order.(Ex, if you're a fighter, you can make Str your Focus and Int your Foible. You then roll 1d10+7, first stat is Dex, then Con, etc).
We can obviously increase the automatic stats as well as the die pool, but I would strong recommend not having us roll in order.
As I said above, I vastly prefer point buy, but I am okay with a solid rolling method, as long as the pool is sufficiently big enough.
One thing I will say, I have certain expectations of the overall power level of a game run by Sebeloki, which includes decently high stats, gestalt/morestalt, and the possibility of templates, mythic(either from the start or earned in game), etc. Also, a poop ton of bonus feats, lol.
I don't think this particular game needs templates or mythic, so I'm okay with those not being included.
The other stuff I was kinda looking forward to making use of when I first spoke to Seb via PM.
However, Seb obviously is free to make use of whatever rules, stat generation, etc that he wants. If I don't happen to like them, that's totally okay, and I can bow out of this game, no harm, no foul.
I think Point Buys can be very min-maxed, and let's face it, you will of you can. Whereas rolls add that little unknown. Most of all if you stick to the order of the rolls.
STR/Dex/Con/Int etc
So then you have to work out the kind of Class and history to that level 16 build.
Much more fun in my view.
I think templates would work knowing Gm style and what he likes to see well, but limited to low CR like 1 or 2 tops with advanced banned.
But I agree mythic is pushing it.
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Favoriting their own posts? Need to give themselves credit?
This post and the one in the Runelords game are already fairly antagonizing somehow - again.
I am officially checking out of this thread. I am not interested in adjudicating incessant arguments between players, or with the seemingly endless desire to reflexively argue with me about each and every detail of this proposal.