Well, I still think that just because something has never existed before, it doesn't mean it can never exist.
But, most importantly, I think there's a GM here trying to do something. Arguing and partypooping all over it doesn't seem like the most supportive welcome.
I mean, if I were the GM I would hands down prefer the "if it's a train I'm out", as a sign of "respect though disagreement". Two guys arguing about a sentence being or not being in locative case? Na, boy.
I personally don't give a dayum if it's a train or not, in case anyone is wondering.
Its just disrespectful pure and simple :(
However would this work with Pathfinder? I mean outside of Numarian and the mana waste it isn't really non-medieval or non-Renaissance friendly. How would you make a train?
I think the closest they have is caravans. Which does move large amounts of cargo over almost any terrain but I don't think that has the same feel as a train... Even if it can also be known as a wagon train! XD
I would argue that having things fleshed out for the train is necessary, as one of the base aspects is more spy like in nature. Knowing the train's route, keeping in mind where the tunnels are if there are any, these are things a spy would brush up on before before going in.
The core of your argument, unless I have completely misread everything after this, is that trains don't exist or are not statted out in Golarion based on the current Pathfinder ruleset, because the two most likely places for one to exist on Golarion, doesn't have them. Is that correct?
Your proposition is to use a different setting that has them (or something like them) rather than make more work for the GM to come up with it on their own and have to worry about balance and function and the required changes to the world that might stem from adding this into existing lore, on top of setting up the adventure itself.
I get that. My question is: "Why is everyone arguing?"
Timeskeeper is correct in that there are no trains in canon on Golarion under the official Pathfinder ruleset as it currently exists.
A more important question though: "Why does it matter?"
There are plenty of options available to us and to the GM to create something in its stead that could serve as a plot hook, a location (potentially all encompassing for the adventure such as the iron colossus as mentioned, or something extraplanar), and a justification for not existing in the current world of Golarion.
And if the GM wants to take on the extra work to make this work, great. There's no need to argue, on either side.
I for one am all for the train heist. Maybe not so much being limited to bards, but considering the amount of archetypes, this isn't as big of a limitation as I'm probably thinking it is.
As for a potential justification, I would go with something like the Demon Train from Legend of Zelda: Spirit Tracks. A train from another realms that can move in and out of the Material Plane. If we're high level adventurers, then one or more of the baddies our characters have been hunting down all used it to try to escape. We barely managed to "jump" onto the train ourselves and now have our own objectives while we're on the train.
I also really like the "deific centipede turned god-engine" idea from Oblivion's Scion. The mental image there is close to what I was originally thinking before the Demon Train collided with my train of thought. Some conglomeration of Jormungandr, Galactus, and the Elder Centipede from One Punch Man season 2.
Everyone is a familiar whose master has been kidnapped! They must band together to rescue them
As for bards, I had a quick look and this is what I liked the most and caught my attention:
-Arcane Duelist: makes a quite good combatant.
-Archaeologist: luck bonuses + Fate's Favored + Inspire Courage from a bard ally (if anyone xD) makes this a potential Superman (or Superwoman xD).
-Archivist: Knowledge specialist and gives Insight bonuses, again stackable with Inspire Courage (Archaeologist is now touching himself).
-Arrowsong Minstrel: good bowman a la Arcane Archer.
-Chronicler of Worlds: uses Int instead of Cha and dabbles with some planar things which could be nice if the train comes and goes through Planes.
-Dwarven Scholar: uses Wis instead of Cha, nice for a change.
-Faith Singer: grants a Domain, which could add some uniqueness and flexibility.
-Magician: buffs spellcasting and adds some spells off-class.
-Solacer: showed up as the better option for a dedicated healer, if only thanks to the Heal skill.
There are many more archetypes, all adding different flavours to an already flexible class.
wow...get sucked into updating the kitchens electrical needs and suddenly see a huge argument over the validity of a train in a pathfinder/golarian system.
So, here's my two cents on the subject.
both are correct.
I as the DM, if i want, can insert a train into the system because I said so.
also
a train, the current manifestation of what we, as modern people, envision a train to be, in a pathfinder setting is a bit difficult to accept. Pathfinder is a high fantasy game, while a train is more in line with steampunk-esque game. This can make it difficult for people to get into the game with such a divergent technology for the period of play.
So, let's take a step back. Perhaps Train is the incorrect word to use. Thinking about this, i feel a more apt word choice would be Cargo carrier.
In a world where magic is everywhere, and is used as an aide that stifles innovation and the advancement of technology, it isnt outside the realm of possibility for there to be overland cargo carriers. From my perspective, i can easily imagine a merchant who moves vast amounts of cargo from one end of the world to the other to want to have something more reliable, more manageable, more secure, and less dependent upon magical variances. Sure, you can make a gate, or use plane shift, or teleport, and so on, but your limited by weight, spell effect, availability of mage who can cast the spell, cost of spell components, and so on. So why not create something that could haul a massive amount of cargo, measured in 10s or 100s of tons, that isnt limited by terrain. Cargo trailers enclosed, secured with locks, guards, magical locks. Cargo mover, the locomotive section, has it's engineers or drivers, to direct the behemoth engine, perhaps its a mage that directs it?
it goes on and on.
So, to sum up, i think we have to change how we look at a "train" for this to work in an adventure. But, at the end of the day, the word train will be used.
just for imagery, while not exact, im liking the feel of this look for what the cargo carrier would look like.
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I would imagine as some form of a series of floating magical platforms all linked up and gliding through the air.
An uber, souped up version of the Floating Disk spell cast by a high level Wizard could quite conceivably be feasable.
It would create a great “Force Train” hurtling through the air feel :)
It would also make jumping from 1 section to another a good deal more intimidating! ^-^
A few more ideas;
The train does not simply “roll” along the ground like some lame, mundane peasants cart. No. This one gets from place to place by riding atop a continuous Tsunami or World Wave that crashes straight through all in it’s path.
It’s a bit slow, but a very potent symbol of significance!
Multiple castings of Wooden Phalanx to create a column of wooden sentinels to carry the train upon their shoulders.
I’ll see what other spells I can think up to create interesting effects.
Any limitations? Piazo, SoP, 3pp? They can help to narrow down my scope :)
Also a question for the bard party, would we all be taking the teamwork feat tree of Basic Harmoney, Compelling Harmonies, Counterpoint to Inspiration? Seems like it might be a good idea for a group of spies whose cover in a band?
Just jumped into this thread, and I'm interested by the bards idea! Would a skald be an acceptable addition?
Have in mind that a Skald would enrage all the recipients of his song, and maybe that's something the rest of the group is not too much up to, being all spellcasters.
Fair point. Archetypes like the Urban Skald and Spell warrior can change that though.
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A game I am in that's run for a long time but has been on 6 month hiatus..
The gods are running a competition..
There are 12 or so gods to choose from ..
The party are all followers of 1 of them..
There are parties for each of the gods on the planet somewhere.
The party is transported to a planet that has a thriving population.
The goal is to be the last party left.
A player can only be killed by a member of a different gods team.
If a player is killed they arise again the next day naked with their companions. .they just appear.
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One campaign I'd like to play in comes from one that we had the first couple of sessions but then it got dropped.
The concept was that each PC was a god, but we each woke up in a temple surrounded by our priests but all were dead. Going outside was a street lined with temples but not much else. It was like being in between worlds.
We were epic level and had to investigate what happened to the world and what killed the other gods (all were dead in their temples except for the PCs).
We each had a limited amount of divine energy that would not be replenished that we could spend to do divine things beyond the mechanics.
Unsure what the status of all this is, but
I like both Tharasiph and DLH's ideas, they sound fun!
I have a lot of game ideas I would love to play in right now, but one that is taking up a lot of space in my head is some sort of intrigue/political game that makes use of all(most) of the rules from Ultimate Intrigue.
I would personally prefer this to gestalt(or morestalt, lol) but would be okay with just a normal single class game.
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I'd also be interested in a gestalt game.
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I might be willing to run something else -- I have more time coming the next few months than I thought I would because of a change in my school schedule.
Throw some ideas out and I might be willing to run one more game.
Morestalt? Like how many quadralt, hexalt, sexalt?
I might be willing to run something else -- I have more time coming the next few months than I thought I would because of a change in my school schedule.
Throw some ideas out and I might be willing to run one more game.
Morestalt? Like how many quadralt, hexalt, sexalt?
I like to use morestalt for when I mean anything beyond gestalt, though obviously other words work, as you mentioned.
I would definitely be possibly interested in you running something else, but let's not hijack this thread to discuss what.
Feel free to PM me or I can do so when I get up as it's 5am and I'm off to bed.
I think taking over this thread is probably okay (esp for chatter around ideas) - RIZZENMAGNUS made another thread thread to recruit for the ideas he was most interested in from this one.
dotting....
I have a few interesting ideas for games.....
I'm going to make an interest check thread to talk about some ideas Monkeygod and I have been tossing around. Anyone who wants to discuss a morestalt campaign, please head over shortly and join us.
Still have my ideas, just refining them some before I put them down...
We're discussing some interesting ideas here.
Feel free to join the discussion!
not interested in Multi-Gestalt based ideas so that is why I'm gonna post it here.
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I've come up with names for two of my ideas;
Life's Adventure.
and
Nostalgic Multiverse Abridged.
Quick summaries of each below
Campaign's basic starting summary is;
a few adventuring parties of heros decide to settle down and make a new town in the wilderness,
the player's character are children of these heroes.
The Player Characters do there first adventure at say age 7 or 10 time skip a number of years for the second adventure,
a bit more of the time skip for the third and after that adventures happen with little to no time skip.
Character creation is not done normally, it's done via a questionaire and some randomisation based on certain answers.
With the removed control, bonus feats/traits(dnd 3.5 and PF) based on answers and some RNG will be given as a free bonus.
Now a thing of note is that some answers, mainly those of the parents, are CORE CRB ONLY (and with very few non-core additions)
and that a Hybrid class requires that each parent to be one of the two core classes for it.
*Note: Now this game is Kingmaker compatiable in a way with the time skips.
This is basically where you take a character from a work of fiction and, like in abridging anime,
you twist and change parts of the character but keep a certain fundamentals of the character intact.
The campaign is kinda like the Project_X_Zone for the 3DS, where multiple universes have mixed or crossed over.
Now this game will have characters generating a score based on factors; how commonly seen (how many crossovers and other media have then been in), how old (when was the character made), etc.
The lower the score the better.
All Races should be core, or Core with templates (half-templates will replace being a full-blooded of a non-core race)
(I have a bunch of templates from the 3.5 days that should help)
Now both could be used together, but it gets more complicated...
Now this game will have characters generating a score based on factors; how commonly seen (how many crossovers and other media have then been in), how old (when was the character made), etc.
The lower the score the better.
Can you explain more what you mean by this?
Can you explain more what you mean by this?Now this game will have characters generating a score based on factors; how commonly seen (how many crossovers and other media have then been in), how old (when was the character made), etc.
The lower the score the better.
Don't have the complete system ready, just a rough draft, but it is designed so we don't have like 95%+ Batman, and or other super popular character references from recent Anime/Manga/Movies/TV/Comic etc as submissions.
But look at the older and less known characters from lesser known sources and using as close to the Core Rule Book(s)content as possible in remaking them with our twists to original character.
After going more into the systems for both, I kinda want to be in or maybe even run Life's Adventure, But I need to know if there is interest in it?
it's in a spoiler above
Bunch of kids survive the destruction of their ninja clan, (not all rogue types) To ensure they aren't killed if found, they have to get stronger and rebuild their clan.
Tried to run this one before, it fell apart sadly.
Bunch of kids survive the destruction of their ninja clan, (not all rogue types) To ensure they aren't killed if found, they have to get stronger and rebuild their clan.
Tried to run this one before, it fell apart sadly.
Kinda sounds like the it's from a number of anime TV, movies and or OVAs
But I would be interested in it.
Bunch of kids survive the destruction of their ninja clan, (not all rogue types) To ensure they aren't killed if found, they have to get stronger and rebuild their clan.
Tried to run this one before, it fell apart sadly.
Kinda sounds like the it's from a number of anime TV, movies and or OVAs
But I would be interested in it.
Kind of, it's actually based on an idea of mine for a Naruto fanfiction, But that's really it's only connection to anime that I remember.
I was thinking more like; Ninja Scroll, Basilisk, Ninja Cadets, Samurai Deeper Kyo, Flame of Recca, etc
I'm actually only familiar with Ninja scroll, but yes, I was thinking a more serious tone like that when I went to run it.
Might want to look at a few I listed as most kinda do have the start you mentioned.....
Still working on Life's adventure, mainly a piece of software to process the questionaires so I'm not doing each entry 100% by hand, remove any processing mistakes and handle some randomisations of values based on answers.
Did start some ideas of the campaign's story....
Hmm."The Train" reminds me of a storyline in Girl Genius
Started getting some more ideas....
but I'll hold on to them for now...
Hmm."The Train" reminds me of a storyline in Girl Genius
shhhhhhhhhhhh
Got a campaign idea worked out and ready to start, but it'll be a bit later.
And something to note is that character creation will be very different and close to a Broadened Horizon Game.
Why do I keep getting new interesting ideas........
So, my idea is you start as a commoner or a prisoner and you only have like three items... chunk of bread, one slightly useful item, and one more useful item, like perhaps a candle and your father's sword, or a rope and a scroll someone slipped you.
Either way, there have been problems in the town with the livestock going missing or getting mauled, and the town needs help. If you are a prisoner you have the chance to gain your freedom, and if you are just a poor commoner, you have the chance to gain a reward. Either way, you show up and the guards basically force you into this cave opening where they think the bad creature is. Maybe a dragon, maybe something else.
Right from the start you have some choices to make, because you don't have enough to accomplish anything on your own... you team up with others, but are you guys going to actually go after the monster or just prey on the other people who are wandering around same as you until you get geared up better?
The cave system would be extensive... I call it "Endless Cavern" so that you could go through some lower level events first (although there is always a path to the scarier stuff).
But anyway... almost anything could be inside, but I love the idea of starting out with almost nothing and just having to rely on your wits and almost nothing else until you get strong enough to actually get to level one. :)
Have you read about the funnel method? This seems very similar.
Similar, but still just one character rather than killing off several until you are left with only one. :) That could be fun too, of course. I think the part I like the most is the story part of it... there is no extensive tortured backstory. You're just a kid from a backwoods town ... similar backgrounds although one of you might have stolen a chicken or even a horse to get thrown in jail. :) The story kind of invents itself as you run into things and make d20 rolls with zero bonuses... what do you find yourself good at? What heroic things were you able to do without all the trappings of an accomplished adventurer? And also, what are you reduced to if things don't go your way? If some NPC hits you over the head and takes your sword, what happens next?
Anyway, just something I've been thinking about. Might have to run it myself someday, although I have basically zero experience as a DM.
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My unique idea?
A homebrew campaign that doesn't fizzle and fall apart.
Every single one I have been in on here has died. I think one I'm in right now may last, to prove the exception to the rule, though. :)
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My unique idea?
A homebrew campaign that doesn't fizzle and fall apart.
Every single one I have been in on here has died. I think one I'm in right now may last, to prove the exception to the rule, though. :)
Yeah my newest idea currently does use a AP, which I don't like, since I know APs tend to die.
Which is why I tend now to go for modules (and modifying them) since odds of completing a module are much higher then a whole AP.
Alright so I might be ready to start a game, since I have most of everything planned out.
Now the game is a; Expanded Horizons, Caravan of Mixed-blood, and to a minor degree a Classic game.
The game will be PathFinder 1st ed.
Just need to know if there is Any interest in it.
tell me more
Expanded Horizons:
Players are not in complete control of character creation, race and classes are determined via semi-random method, or survey
(classes will be in semi random part here in that you select 8 classes from a list and then I randomise which is yours,
race this time is controlled via a quick survey and a die roll.)
Caravan of Mixed Blood:
Every character will not be a pure-blooded race (or are but won't be for long as a template will be added at creation or later, (template is controlled by the survey))
And every character is from the same caravan and it's not a Varisian caravan.
Classic Game:
The number of source books will be limited to older books, in this case you can pretty much only look at selection of core hard cover rule books and a few player companions for sources, but your also open to 3.X content if asked first.
Game will be starting at level 3, and using a module that has been modified.
Now since everyone will be getting a template at creation or later, depending on template the stat arrays open are different.
How about a Life with Master type game where everyone is a minion? NPC classes since you don't have the advanced training. Plus try to give special quirks like 'Evil limp; or 'mute'