Im feeling rather cheeky at the moment, so i thought id ask you, the reader, what unique adventure idea youve had that's been tickling the back of your brain? Could we play it? Ill be the DM, citing you as creative idea source. Maybe we could mash it up with other players and turn it into a more unique adventure? Or maybe it's just too weird to play, and would be forever shelved upon the "whatif" idea bookshelf...
For me: ive had the idea of doing an adventure where players resurrect their first ever player character for an adventure. That first PC that held the wonderment, the innocence, the intense joy that you held when you sat down at the table for the first time, rolling that first dice.
My PC was Bayrinth, a Chaotic evil anti-paladin devoted to Raistlin (who kept the reanimated corpse of Takhisis as his pet), the God of Krynn, sent to the Forgotten Realms to convert followers for my new god. The game lasted all of 5 sessions, involved lots of backstabbing, an evil short angry mage, and (since i and the group were all 15 &16 year olds) intensely descriptive adult situations. It was lots of fun, and started me down the path of RPG-awesomeness!
|Master Han Del of the Web|
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A train job!
The PCs get tickets on the first every locomotive in an otherwise typical fantasy setting but something goes wrong and they have to fight their way from the caboose all the way up to the engine. This being a magitech train each car is massive and has unique features like zoos and themed restaurants. Throw in even more bizarre elements like the train tracks circumnavigate the planet or go through other planes for more wildness. Bonus points for extra doses of Wild Wild West flavor.
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I've always wanted to do a dragon rider game! I know how typical that sounds, but you'd be surprised at how little of a chance for that there is. I guess people just don't want to try and balance something like that.
I'd even enjoy it if it was a war game. Maybe even play around a little with the mass combat rules.
I have for quite a while been thinking about a game using some unused but in my eyes fabulous places on Golarion.
First place that comes to mind for me is Shenmen in Tian Xia. It's a land of ghosts, bandits, fey and spiders where it always rains but also has immense supplies of darkwood and silver.
The idea was to drop unsuspecting PC's in there, characters (and possibly players) that were expecting a romp around Varisia or some such but got sucked in by means outside their own control (my idea was via an Osa Painting (minor artifact from Horror Realms))
But this is just one idea, there are many gems like this within the Inner Sea setting (though most are far from the inner sea)
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I always thought a campaign based on the Trygalle Trade Guild from the Malazan book of the fallen would be fun, delivering anywhere, anywhen.
Bonus idea: A thieves guild based on The Gentleman Bastards from The Lies of Locke Lamora. Would need to be lowish magic to fit the theme. Venice aka Camorr is such an atmospheric place!
The bardic group does sound like it could be fun. Better yet, it can be combined with quite a few of the other ideas mentioned above.
If you're really ambitious you could also combine it with Black Company, the bardic part being a cover. That would require quite a bit of compromise and, assuming Pathfinder 1.0, probably gestalt with one side fixed as Bard.
Now that I think of it...
I've been always interested in playing a good SoP/SoM game. I mean not one of those "sure, pick whichever 3PP rules you want", where later on you find out how poorly one system adapts with the other. I mean a full SoP/SoM game where all items and spellcasters you find have Spheres, and the like.
But you know...
-The Druidic Circle (Full Druid Party)
-Life in the Monastery (Full Monk/Full Cleric Party, depending if Western/Eastern setting)
-The Crusaders (Paladin+Knights+Fighters)
-Captain Planet: Literal (Full Kineticist Party)
-Captain Planet: Symbolic (Classes representing four/five elements)
-Skilled Party "Ocean's Eleven" (Rogues+Investigators+Bards+Swashbucklers)
-Ars Magica Alliance
And many, many more...
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I totally would be up for an all Bard group.
I also like the Life in the Monastery idea too. Can do a lot with that if you're creative.
There is one other thing I've always wanted to do but the draw for it is so small, just playing a random villager, Smith, farmer, etc, and doing a slice of life game. Though it would likely take a lot of work on the GM's part.
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so here's what im mulling over for something unique...
all bard party (Spies-ish)
at least 15th level.
themes: Mission impossible with a locomotive/train setting.
The party, an elite group that has become known for taking on the most dangerous, most suicidal missions throughout the realm, while on a separate mission, discovers plans of an ultra-secret sect that plans to resurrect an unknown entity known simply as "the train". Further investigation into this sect reveals the existence of a universe destroying locomotive with nigh-godlike powers. It's location has been kept secret, information lost due to the sands of time. This sect, The engineers, is in the process of resurfacing this behemoth and must be stopped before the train sees the light of day...
I could totally be a member of a band!
However would this work with Pathfinder? I mean outside of Numarian and the mana waste it isn't really non-medieval or non-Renaissance friendly. How would you make a train?
Let me think about this...
We wouldnt need to have it look like a traditional locomotive, but it would be magically powered. It would be able to pull vast amounts of cargo over almost any terrain.
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Except for those who make them. A wizard would understand a construct and a gunslinger would understand a firearm. While Pathfinder doesn't use these elements much, as they are a hard core fantasy game, they have small drops of these more si-fi or steampunk areas to appeal to those who want this. However these things rarely effect the world around them only one AP takes place in these areas and to my knowledge only one of the smaller one shot adventures as well.
This wouldn't be to the game's strength. Even if you set it in Numeria you wouldn't find a train like contraption there. It is far more interstellar si-fi than anything steampunk, and the one area that could be considered steampunk, ie the Mana Wastes, doesn't have trains. They haven't gotten there yet. Because of this the development of these things not happening has left it a total dark spot in Pathfinder's build. As such you would need to build the train totally from scratch! Stats and all. Which if anyone has tried to build something from scratch using Pathfinder could tell you, building and balancing are two different things. Something you think is balanced could end up horribly under or over powered. Even some of the devs can't get it right and we have creatures with the wrong CR to show for it!
It might be a good idea, if we keep with this topic, to look at other systems. If only to save the GM some form of headache. Though this would limit the pool of players...
There are no need for mechanics any soon. It’s just the environment/the dungeon. The GM can play with the idea as much as he wants - is it moving? Flying? Are there tracks? Windows? Jumping from wagon to wagon?) even to the point of not bothering about it at all (players know they’re in a giant impossible like contraption but there are no ways out besides moving forward, and no other special effects other than flavor).
Additionally: trains are in the very soul of STEAMpunk. Not sure where you got the space thing from. It’s very much doable in Pathfinder and, to be honest, I’d rather stay in the system. If needed anything special, just take inspiration on the ship rules of S&S but again not even needed unless the GM wants the train to be part of the mechanics (fighting on top of it? Tight curves? Dark tunnels? Etc.). Anyway, a lot of food for thought and very fun in my humble opinion. As a GM, for instance, I love these challenges and writing these environments and mechanics for my players.
I'm not implying the trains are a main si-fi thing. I was just point out that the two places that aren't medieval fantasy don't have trains. As one is interstellar, thus a no go, and the one that is steampunk and thus the most likely to have them, doesn't have them. They do have zeppelins though... At least if the artwork for the capital city is anything to go by!
I would argue that having things fleshed out for the train is necessary, as one of the base aspects is more spy like in nature. Knowing the train's route, keeping in mind where the tunnels are if there are any, these are things a spy would brush up on before before going in. Yes being prepared for anything is a mark of a good spy but going in without even the slightest idea of a plan is the mark of a bad one. Or a dead one if you'd like. If this was more just a fight your way through, that would be a different story. As it is just a dungeon crawl and those don't need much attention to detail. It's nice when they do have it, but it isn't a necessity. Where as a groups that are educated to enter enemy territory for other reason, ie not just a punch em down, are going to need those extra details.
Damn, i shouldve eaten my wheaties this morn. Trying to come up something unique for the hows/whys and what nots for the train in pathfinder. Of course i could just hand wave it in, but still, its not the same. I want it to fit into the setting, so the look, the magic, has to be sound. Usually i can come up with this in about 15 minutes, but today, nope. Just a mind blank. Uggg. Let me sleep on it, stew tomorrow. Ill come up with something...
Base would be this bad boy.
Now, we just need to boost it with some inteligence, fierce independance, a will to drive, and an end goal of consuming the starstone.
Sleep now, stew tomorrow
Let me see...
First of all, we should consider what's the aim of that train. If we stick to "the world's destruction at the end of the ride", then we of course have to assume the train has never been used before, and will never be used afterwards. Thus, it seems to be unimportant whether any given place has trains or not. We're not even caring if this particular train needs a railroad or not (I assume not, otherwise all the "find out the course" thing turns out to be almost negligible).
Basically, we're doing a Death Star run: get the blueprints, find the fatal flaw, have zillions of spaceships sacrificed so a teen-ager can fire a missile through the vent hole. In the movies, that was awesome, even though no full explanation was given as to how exactly all the Death Star works, why no one has done it before, etc.
Eh... Anyone else has the old arcade Iron Horse in mind? xD
|Master Han Del of the Web|
@timeskeeper: Steampunk settings do have trains. They’re a major component of the industrial revolution. I’m sorry to say it, but you do have to study some history. I don’t mean it I’m an aggressive way, so again my apologies if it sounds like that.
You don’t even have to look beyond D&D to find trains either. There are several settings that feature them. In the world of gaming, from Warhammer to World of Warcraft, they’re also quite common.
Anyway: @GM, I like that you’re already finding cool references to build it. I think you’re absolutely on the right direction. Organic or nonorganic, train or not, I feel this is a really inspired homebrew. I can’t wait to see the final result and recruitment.
@Archlich, I know steampunk setting have them. You're missing the point I'm making. Pathfinder's closest thing to steampunk, ie the Mana waste, doesn't. I'm well aware of our history, and when trains came about, and what type of games arise from it and that time period. They are irrelevant to the topic of if Pathfinder has them because, it doesn't. Hints the, maybe we should think about choosing a different system. Like one that has them.
@Jereru: The Death Star was still something that could come about in that world. People knew and understood it, even if it is likely the Empire killed them all... Because let's be honest they totally did... Also money, that had to be hella expensive. The main worry is, if someone built this, why? Pathfinder drives forward on magic. That's one of the reasons there is little advancements technology wise. Anyone can learn magic, and it can do pretty much anything! Except time stuff... I mean you have the spell time stop but that seems to be all that is allowed. No time traveling... Always found that interesting. But I'm getting off topic! If the fact it is a train isn't important, then why make it a train? Why not just make it a dungeon with something deep into the earth that will end it? If ending the world is the main goal (of the evil people I mean..).
I think you should read my post, and research more. I even added a link to trains in Ravenloft. On the steampunk thing, I was simply trying to explain you that your whole point about "interstellar" sci-fi was nonsensical; trains are very much steampunk and we have representation for it in the D&D world already.
Also: I don't think we should go for other systems, and if it's the case my interest would simply drop. I think the GM, however, has the right idea looking at what PF has to easily adapt it.
Okay, you're still not getting the point. So I'll be as blunt as I can be, I don't often like to be, as it can be read as anger but this seems to be all I have left. If it is not Pathfinder, or Paizo, it is irrelevant. I don't care if it is from D&D, I don't care if it is from Warhammer. Those are not, Paizo/Pathfinder. The interstellar part was, again, to point out that one of the two non-medieval or non-Renaissance area was a no go. Because it was space related not steampunk related. And the only steampunk one also didn't have them. They went with zeppelins for some reason. My only concern is if it is in Pathfinder.
The even if even in Paizo link you set up, is a third party called D20 Cartographer. So no. It isn't Paizo. Paizo will often sell third party things that others have made to work with their system. But it isn't cannon, and is often a at your own risk setup. In the way of seeing if it is balanced and what not. Like the books for playing a dragon, or Valkyrie. I do own the valkyrie book, and even I'd say it isn't totally balanced...
@Cuàn: That part is being talked about now. I'd even say argued about.
@Master Han: Probably? I'm not sure of anything at this point...
Now you're just playing with the words to avoid admitting you're wrong. First the argument was it would be difficult to adapt... Now it's because it's third party so "you can't say it's balanced". Lol... It seems to me as if someone simply can't admit they're wrong, so I rest my case.
@GM: Please, if you'd like it, very much go with your idea. There are plenty of successful uses of it on the D&D world and several adaptation that work with Pathfinder. GMs need to have fun too - if that's what tickles you, I'm onboard with it.
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@Timeskeeper, why all the negativity to a really creative attempt by RizzenMagnus to combine everyone's ideas into a singular concept? What he did is actually similar to how Iron GM events start. But really, there are so few GMs on this board - why the attempt to shatter his ideas, especially with flawed 'facts'?
Yes, flawed. My apologies, but you are confusing Pathfinder with Golarion. Pathfinder is a gaming system developed by Paizo Publishing based on the long-standing 3rd edition d20 ogl. Golarion is a campaign setting, initially released by Paizo Publishing under their GameMastery brand as a setting first for Crown of the Kobold King, an adventure module for D&D 3e, then for Adventure Paths while also publishing Dragon and Dungeon Magazines for Wizards of the Coasts (the creators of the 3rd edition system that is the basis of the Pathfinder system). Currently Golarion serves as the 'de facto' setting for Pathfinder (or rather Pathfinder was developed and published as a way to both continue their Adventure Paths in Golarion using a system similar to where they started and to capture all those gamers disenfranchised by the release of 4E), so I can understand the confusion.
But by no means does a Pathfinder game have to take place on Golarion. It could be in a homebrew setting, another published campaign world, or if the story revolves around the single adventure, those details could not even be pertinent and the setting is the train itself.
If RizzenMagnus chooses to set it in Golarion, as the GM/Storyteller, he has free agency to alter the setting as he sees fit. That is the beauty of a published campaign setting, adventure path, module, or what have you. Its the pieces to work with, but that can be shaped and molded as you weave a story. Think about how many aspects of Golarion did not exist when they published the first adventure in it well over a decade ago? Now, think of the Golarion of today? Everything in between was created by someone. And there have been instances where one piece of published material has contradicted another. It happens.
But if you insist it occur in Golarion, well, where could it work? RizzenMagnus has proposed a story of an ancient train-like construct, so using published Golarion material as a basis, here are a few ideas:
- it was developed as a massive siege engine in a mad demon's lab in the endless Abyss and has come through the Worldwound, laden with innumerable horrors to be unleashed on the face of Golarion.
- it is a piece of "star tech" from the Androffan space craft Divinity and its fleet, which crashed into Numeria almost ten thousand years ago. The Technic League discovered it and tried to reassemble it, but inadvertently created a monstrosity from playing with tech they do not understand. Now, the mad AI is wreaking havoc on Numeria and the lands beyond.
- like the pyramids of Osirion, it was built by a cabal of mages influenced by the Dominion of the Black, also allowing space-level tech up to ten thousand years ago. Perhaps the game is set in 4718, and the 'train' is traveling under the surface of Golarion, shattering the structure of the continents in preparation for the arrival of the prophecied Dominion invasion force that the Osirion countdown clocks foretell of.
- it is the corpse of some forgotten god that died in the battle to bind Rovagug beneath the Windswept Wastes in the Age of Creation. Perhaps it was one of his allies, a pseudo-monstrous centipede, and over the millennia the cult of Rovagug has turned the husk of its corpse into a 'god engine', hoping to use it as a deific explosive bomb to shatter the Dead Vault's doors open and release Rovagug once and for all!
Timeskeeper, the great thing is, if you don't want to play in whatever world/setting/version/game RizzenMagnus proposes, you don't have to. The great thing with PbP boards is a GM can come up with an idea and throw it out there, and if it tickles someone's fancy, they can apply. If its not your cup of tea, you wait for something that is. And I wish you, and all my fellow gamers, the best in all their gaming experiences. This is an amazing hobby we share. We each approach it from a different perspective, but we all love it. Make it your own, and enjoy it.
Well, I just finished my cup of coffee and need to get some work done.
RizzenMagnus, I think you have an awesome idea, run with it (if any of my threads above fuel your creativity, they are yours to use).
Stay Calm and Game On.
You know what, I'm done repeating myself... I'd get further beating my head against a brick wall. If you cannot understand the difference between a map pack, and an actual thing your player will have to fight, that is not my problem. Also understanding the words some one means, when all you have is words like in a forum, kinda important. You cannot hear my inflection nor read my body language. Thus words and their meaning are of the upmost importance. But you are correct one thing, we are done speaking about this. I don't believe you have understood a single point I've been trying to make and obviously it is the same for you. We'll get nowhere with this.
Of course the GM can do whatever his pleases, that is part of the power of being a GM. I'm just glad Rizz is being the GM. I'm in a game with Rizz as the GM and he is very competent.
@Oblivion I don't have as much time to reply to all of your post as I'd like, as I'm about to head to work so I'll do the highlights, or what I perceive as the highlights anyways. First off he didn't try to combined everyone's ideas together. That would be much too difficult as the majority are vastly different. He combined three ideas. The Bard party of Ellioti, the train idea of Master Han, and the 007 or mission impossible from JohnnyBlack. As these are the most likely to be compatible.
Second, as for the Golarian not Pathfinder thing. You are correct! Pathfinder does not always mean Golarian! But unless told otherwise it is the default. As Rizz made no indication that this was going to a different world of any kind, it would make sense that one could only refer to the default. As it is easy to go with a world that already exists than to build one from scratch. If he is building his own world for it than this argument, of it not fitting in the world anyways, become moot. And would be an argument I'd drop as it is no longer relevant.
Third lastly, I'm well aware of my ability to hop out at any given time. But I like the majority of this idea. A groups of Bard spies going on a 007/mission impossible type quest is a solid starting point I'd greatly like to enjoy. I figured seeing as this is a forum asking our opinions on what we want to play the whole thing is a topic up for discussion till how to build your characters it brought out. Much like how people are asking if other parts of this game are non-negotiable. I'm just more vocal and more worried about the world it will be placed in and the mechanics behind it.
I hope this answers some of your questions, sorry I couldn't answer them all.