If I'm a cleric, can I cast with a Weapon in my hand and a Light Shield?
I'm asking this, because it makes the difference between taking the following feats:
Go to Unhindering Shield.
Go to Shield Brace.
I know the first one allows me to keep the 1.5 STR bonus to damage, but it's something I'm not concerned with. But I know Buckler says I can use the hand to cast spells.
I'm confused about Shield Brace though, because Light Shield says my hand is free to use weapons.
I couldn't find a FAQ/Errata, only a comment from James Jacob:
Go to Comment.
And if we follow rules, there's still that FAQ from 3.5 that says, no you couldn't because reasons.
Is the hand free on my Light Shield enough to do the Somatic Components and interact with my Divine Focus?
Or should I just get
Go to Clawhand Shield.
The clawhand shield is a very good deal; a feat equivalent for 3000 gp with additional benefits...
It would seem I'm able to cast spells with that right? I'm guessing it also counts for Divine casters for interacting with Divine Focus.
The only "issue" I see is that I'm not able to use my hand, and if I need to use a wand, scroll, potion or hold my weapon, I cannot do it.
That's why I wanted to go the Shield Brace way, which also allows me to use a Reach Weapon in 1 hand, which is my goal
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If you have a light shield in one hand and a weapon in the other then, unless you have more than two arms, you don't have a hand free and cannot cast spells with somatic components. However, you CAN hold another object in the same hand, so you'd be ok holding a divine focus.
With a buckler, which is worn on the forearm rather than held, you CAN cast a spell, but you lose the buckler bonus to AC that round... unless you have the Unhindering Shield feat.
Shield Brace allows you to use a two-handed weapon in one hand by bracing it against a light/heavy/tower shield held in another hand. It does not grant you a 'free hand', and thus you still can't cast spells with somatic components.
The feat you are looking for is Shielded Mage
Make either the shield or your weapon a Reliquary and it solves the divine focus problem.
If you have a light shield in one hand and a weapon in the other then, unless you have more than two arms, you don't have a hand free and cannot cast spells with somatic components. However, you CAN hold another object in the same hand, so you'd be ok holding a divine focus.
With a buckler, which is worn on the forearm rather than held, you CAN cast a spell, but you lose the buckler bonus to AC that round... unless you have the Unhindering Shield feat.
Shield Brace allows you to use a two-handed weapon in one hand by bracing it against a light/heavy/tower shield held in another hand. It does not grant you a 'free hand', and thus you still can't cast spells with somatic components.
The feat you are looking for is Shielded Mage
I'm confused. How many hands do I need? 1 for handling the DF, another one for somatic? So I can never use a weapon if I'm casting?
Shielded Mage is not useful for me because I want to use a Reach weapon
If Shield Brace allows me to use 2H weapon as 1handed, what is forbidding me to switch the weapon to my shield hand and cast with my free hand and then return the weapon to my original hand?
The usual workaround is to move the weapon to your light shield hand as a free action. Then you have a free hand for casting. Then move your weapon back to your main hand as a free action when you finish casting. But most people seem to ignore all of that silliness and just let clerics cast with a weapon and shield.
The only component that specifies you need a hand free is somatic. A divine focus could just as easily be a medallion worn around the neck. Using a Reliquary simply means you have another item that can function as a divine focus. If for some reason you do need to do anything with the divine focus it is already in hand.
Shielded Mage actually does let you use the hand holding the shield for somatic components. So it will work. You still need to pick up shield brace as well. Basically you need to have both feats to do what you want.
The usual workaround is to move the weapon to your light shield hand as a free action. Then you have a free hand for casting. Then move your weapon back to your main hand as a free action when you finish casting. But most people seem to ignore all of that silliness and just let clerics cast with a weapon and shield.
Well, honestly, it makes sense. The hand is free according to shield description. Clerics get shield prof.
I will just take Shield brace and roll with it.I just wish some things were clearer or at least a FAQ for such a common question.
Thanks!
I never heard of Divine casters having trouble casting while carrying weapon and shield. It makes sense if Arcane casters would. In parituclar, Magi don't use shields. Arcane Archers don't, but they use a proper 2 handed weapon and tend to use it properly. I think most Wizards and Sorcerers have little business holding real weapons and shields anyway.
There is a 3.5 FAQ where it says they can't. They basically have to move the main hand weapon shield weapon, cast, and then wait, because doing that is move action.
Paizo never clarified that, so technically it still holds
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I'm confused. How many hands do I need? 1 for handling the DF, another one for somatic?
No, you can do both of those things with one free hand. You just don't HAVE a free hand if you are already holding both a weapon and a light shield.
If Shield Brace allows me to use 2H weapon as 1handed, what is forbidding me to switch the weapon to my shield hand and cast with my free hand and then return the weapon to my original hand?
That's doable with a light shield, but note that there is an unspecified 'GM discretion' limit on the number of 'free actions' like that you can take in a round, and you can't make attacks of opportunity while the weapon is held in your shield hand.
I'm confused. How many hands do I need? 1 for handling the DF, another one for somatic?No, you can do both of those things with one free hand. You just don't HAVE a free hand if you are already holding both a weapon and a light shield.
This is why I'm confused
Shield, Light Steel: You strap a Shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use Weapons with it.
It says I can carry items, I mean, carrying items means my hand is free, isn't it?
There is a 3.5 FAQ where it says they can't. They basically have to move the main hand weapon shield weapon, cast, and then wait, because doing that is move action.
Paizo never clarified that, so technically it still holds
No. FAQs for 3.5 have absolutely no effect on Pathfinder, as the two games are seperate.
If the shield hand was free, you'd be able to wield weapons with it, right? It isn't free, its somewhat constrained. But...how constrained? Enough to prevent making somatic components with that hand? Its unclear.
The shield is strapped to your arm, which prevents free movement with the arm - something that's necessary to swinging a weapon or thrusting with it. Somatic component is movement of the hand alone, you don't need to get force behind it. We know that removing or re-grabbing a two-handed weapon are both free actions, I presume the same is true for the "grip it with your hand" part of a shield. So, free action to ungrip (shield stays on your arm thanks to the straps), cast spell, free action to regrip. Since a heavy shield so so heavy that you need to grip it at all times, the above only works with light shields.
Why not take the feat eschew materials?
for most spells you would no longer need material components.
Because it doesn't help with the somatic components. Plus, a feat's a feat.
There is a 3.5 FAQ where it says they can't. They basically have to move the main hand weapon shield weapon, cast, and then wait, because doing that is move action.
Paizo never clarified that, so technically it still holds
No. FAQs for 3.5 have absolutely no effect on Pathfinder, as the two games are seperate.
If the shield hand was free, you'd be able to wield weapons with it, right? It isn't free, its somewhat constrained. But...how constrained? Enough to prevent making somatic components with that hand? Its unclear.The shield is strapped to your arm, which prevents free movement with the arm - something that's necessary to swinging a weapon or thrusting with it. Somatic component is movement of the hand alone, you don't need to get force behind it. We know that removing or re-grabbing a two-handed weapon are both free actions, I presume the same is true for the "grip it with your hand" part of a shield. So, free action to ungrip (shield stays on your arm thanks to the straps), cast spell, free action to regrip. Since a heavy shield so so heavy that you need to grip it at all times, the above only works with light shields.
Because it doesn't help with the somatic components. Plus, a feat's a feat.Why not take the feat eschew materials?
for most spells you would no longer need material components.
Isn't PF 1 backwards compatible? And those FAQs apply here as well?
Anyway, yeah, if that can be done for 2 Handed weapon, it can be done for Weapon + Shield, it's the same concept, my hand is free.
Thanks! That FAQ clearly made things clearer xD
Anyway, as you can see, many have different opinions on the matter
Isn't PF 1 backwards compatible? And those FAQs apply here as well?
PF was indeed created with backwards compatibility in mind (to make it easier for 3.5 players to jump on by not invalidating all their books), but it's still a completely seperate, stand-alone game by a different company. Pathfinder has its own rules, and only those rules are relevant - nothing written for 3.5 is in any way official for Pathfinder. Even the 3.5 stuff written by Paizo (for the then existing Pathfinder setting) is not technically part of Pathfinder (the game).
Anyway, as you can see, many have different opinions on the matter
Which is exactly why I don't just say "it is like this", but give detailed reasoning for my position, and try to stay as close to the written rules as possible without losing sight of the intend.
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I'm confused. How many hands do I need? 1 for handling the DF, another one for somatic?No, you can do both of those things with one free hand. You just don't HAVE a free hand if you are already holding both a weapon and a light shield.
This is why I'm confused
Shield, Light Steel: You strap a Shield to your forearm and grip it with your hand. A light shield's weight lets you carry other items in that hand, although you cannot use Weapons with it.
It says I can carry items, I mean, carrying items means my hand is free, isn't it?
Your hand is gripping the shield, so it can't perform the "measured and precise movement of the hand" required to cast a spell.
To make an example it is like wearing a baseball glove. You can grab an item with that hand, but you can't type something on a cellular phone.Shield brace doesn't give you a free hand, you are still using the spear or polearm with two hands, read the benefits:
Benefit(s): You can use a two-handed weapon sized appropriately for you from the polearm or spears weapon group while also using a light, heavy, or tower shield with which you are proficient. The shield’s armor check penalty (if any) applies to attacks made with the weapon.
Nowhere it says that you use the weapon with only one hand.
What it does is that it allow you to use your shield arm to wield the shield and the polearm at the same time.On the other hand, you get the benefit of using the polearm two handed.
I suppose it is meant to reproduce how the Greeks used their sarissa together with a shield. In RL that requires a specific kind of shield, different from the ones generally used during the middle ages, but Pathfinder allows it to work with all shields.
Pathfinder, and D&D before it, is terrible at representing shields and their usage. The buckler is the worst. It has almost nothing to do with the actual buckler, which was a small center grip shield.
Your hand is gripping the shield, so it can't perform the "measured and precise movement of the hand" required to cast a spell.
To make an example it is like wearing a baseball glove. You can grab an item with that hand, but you can't type something on a cellular phone.Shield brace doesn't give you a free hand, you are still using the spear or polearm with two hands, read the benefits:
Benefit(s): You can use a two-handed weapon sized appropriately for you from the polearm or spears weapon group while also using a light, heavy, or tower shield with which you are proficient. The shield’s armor check penalty (if any) applies to attacks made with the weapon.Nowhere it says that you use the weapon with only one hand.
What it does is that it allow you to use your shield arm to wield the shield and the polearm at the same time.
On the other hand, you get the benefit of using the polearm two handed.I suppose it is meant to reproduce how the Greeks used their sarissa together with a shield. In RL that requires a specific kind of shield, different from the ones generally used during the middle ages, but Pathfinder allows it to work with all shields.
From my point of view it doesn't really matter, as long as I can use a Light Shield I can move my weapon to that hand to cast a spell.
My character is planning an aid another build, so even if I don't apply STR 1 1/2 it's not an issue.
Since switching items around is a free action in PF1, you are okay as long as your shield is either a light shield or a buckler.
If you are carrying a light shield, you can move your weapon to your shield hand, cast your spell with somatic components, and then switch the weapon back.
If you are carrying a buckler, you can use the hand carrying the buckler to cast spells.