The price to craft my Wild stoneplate with Craft Magic Arms and Armor Feat

[Chaos_Gamer01]

I don't really understand how people are getting the price for enchanting armor. So far what I think is you have to enchant the armor to desired ability level and then buy that on its own level. Maybe this is how my group has ruled it but this is what I have so far.

I have bought enough materials for half the cost of Stoneplate (1800gp) which would equal 900 gp; this is room for failure. I make it Masterwork (150gp). So far my cost is 1,200gp for the making stoneplate armor from scratch. Now this is where it gets confusing for me.

What I believe is I have to enchant the armor to +3 to be allowed to get the wild enchantment to the armor. I have Craft Arms and Armor feat. So everything should cost 1/2:

+1 (1,000gp) would be 500gp
+2 (4,000gp) would be 2,000gp
+3 (9,000gp) would be 4,500gp

The total would equal 7,000gp. The Wild enchantment is a +3 armor special ability that costs a +3 bonus. I interpreted it as paying for 9,000gp without it being halved while casting baleful polymorph as a druid of the appropriate level.
This is leave the total cost as 16,000 gp after everything with the feat.

I am almost certain this is not the official rules for the cost of what I want so I am hoping someone can help explain this simply and discuss this with group to see if they want to go offical or keep this homerule.

[Name Violation]

Not at all.
For the magic part...
First you have to make it +1. You can't have magic armor or weapons that aren't at least +1. That's 1000 or half if you make it.

Now you can add anything else you want, but itll cost.

Adding wild is a +3 ability. So you look at the cost of a +4 armor (+1 adding +3 ability) it cost that number, half if you make it yourself. Subtract amount already spent making the armor (pay the difference between +1 and +4).

Now you have +1 wild armor.
It is 1 better than non magic armor, and has the wild ability. Cost the same as a +4 armour without the wild ability.

[Meirril]

Crafting the armor uses the rules presented under the Craft skill. If you have craft:armor fully ranked you might want to make it. But it should take months to craft that armor yourself unless you can somehow cast fabricate or the GM lets you use some other spell to let you skip the crafting time.

Also when you craft non-magical items the cost is 1/3rd, not 1/2.

So I'd just assume you buy a set of MC Stoneplate at full price.

The next thing you do is you figure out what the end result of your magic item will be. As Name Violation says, weapons and armor have to have a +1 or better enhancement value before you can add special abilities to weapons and armor.

That means the minimum you can do for Wild Armor(+3 equivalent) is +1. The total cost for this armor is +4 (+1 and +3 equivalent for wild armor special ability). Looking on the chart, a +4 enhancement bonus has a base price of 16,000. You don't use the cost of the armor when you figure out how long it takes to make the magic item.

DC is going to be 5 +(4 x 3) = 17, and take 16 days to create (1,000gp per day). Or if you want to raise the DC by 5 (2,000 gp/day) to 22 to double your rate, you can cut the enchanting time to 8 days.

For each day of magic item creation you need to prepare any spells called for in the requisites for the item creation. Each day 1 use of the each requisite spell is consumed. That means for all 16 or 8 days you spend making your armor, you need to have Baleful Polymorph prepared and you 'use' one casting during your work.

Now that you know how much and how long you need to spend the appropriate amount and get started on the actual work. Creation cost is half of the base price + the full cost of any material costs. If baleful polymorph had a material cost you'd need to pay for 1 casting per day. Fortunately, it doesn't. So at this point you'd need to pay 8,000 gp (half the base cost) and then put in the time.

If you go to upgrade this armor later, you figure out the total cost of the item you want to create, and subtract out the parts you've already created. You can't get rid of anything on the old item you are upgrading.

So if you wanted to take your +1 Wild armor and make it into +3 Comfortable Mind Buttressing Wild armor you need to figure out the value of the new armor. +3 +5,000gp +2 +3 for a total of +8 +5,000gp. +8 = 64,000gp. So total is 69,000gp. The existing armor is 16k, so you the difference is 69k-16k = 53k. You would pay half of 53k to cover the creation costs of your upgraded armor, take 53,000gp's worth of days to enchant the armor, and make a DC based on the full value (+8x3+5=29) of the armor.

[Louis IX]

Hello,

For the mundane part, either you buy the item or you make it. If you buy it, you need to buy the masterwork cost as well, in full. If you make it, you provide materials worth 1/3 (one-third) of the market cost, masterwork included. And spend much time crafting it: progress is counted in silver per week, with an amount equal to the DC multiplied by your Craft check.

The armor is Stone Plate 1800gp and masterwork 150gp. The raw materials are worth 650gp. The Armor Bonus is +9, thus a Craft DC of 19. Assuming you reach exactly that DC every time you roll (once per week), you'd gain 361 silver pieces of progress each week. For a 1950gp item, you'd need 54 weeks. More than a year. And that's without counting the potential failures setting you back or making no progress for a week.
But that's the only way to have what you want if you find no seller.

Thankfully, there are feats and spells to speed up the process, including increasing your check result. Speaking of feats, don't forget the Craft Magic Arms and Armor.

And "Name Violation" is right about the magic part. The prices listed for the "plus" abilities include each other (you can see it in some item prices). It already is a squared progression (armors are the plusses, squared, times 1000; weapons cost double) and reach high values rapidly (a +5 weapon has an enchantment price of 5*5*1000*2=50k, not 50k+32k+18k+8k+2k; a +5 armor with a +5 sum of other abilities has a price of 10*10*1000=100k). Remember that you need to spend a day per 1000gp, and make a Spellcraft/craft check each time (DC is CL+5, and CL for magic plusses is 3x the plusses, so a purely +3 armor has CL 9 and DC 14). Note that each missing prerequisite (except the feat, mandatory), increases the DC by +5, and doubling your crafting speed needs a DC+5 as well. If you fail the check, you can slow your progression or even have a cursed item.

Note that you can start crafting the +1 armor, use it, and enhance it much later to the +4 version with Wild.

To craft the +1, spend 1 day, and half of 1000gp to make it +1 (requires Caster Level at least 3*1, DC is CL+5 so... 8).

To add the Wild enchantment, you spend the remaining of the +4 cost (4*4*1000 minus the 1000 for the +1, then take half, so... 7500gp), 15 days in a lab, and make a daily check with a DC of 14 (Wild is CL 9, which is a prerequisite due to the wording in the Creating Magic Armor section). Or DC 19 if the crafter doesn't have the Baleful Polymorph spell (or someone to cast it daily).

Other feats and abilities improve the enhancing process. Note that you can enhance an item while adventuring, but you can only work 4 hours per day on it, and only net a progression worth 2 hours for it (instead of the 8 hours of solid progress in a lab), effectively dividing your speed by 4 (and you still must make daily checks, and cast the required spell daily).

EDIT: Ninja'ed by Meirril, with whom I mostly agree, except for the fact that the CL for the plusses only counts the magical plusses (the enhancement bonus), not the additional abilities.

[Meirril]

Louis IX is correct about determining the DCs, but incorrect on the number of checks. You only check vs the DC once for each item magic created. Magic items have one check when you complete the item. Crafting normal items have either daily or weekly checks to determine progress. A failure in normal crafting has a minor punishment. A failure in magic item crafting has a major punishment.

Also since you are in a safe environment you are allowed to take 10 on the check to make magic items. Some GMs will disagree with this, but the conditions for making a magic item falls into the same conditions as taking 10 on a skill check.

[Chaos_Gamer01]

So far what I have got as for cost. Ignoring the cost to make armor from scratch.

I would craft the stoneplate as +1, which would cost 500gp.
Then I would use the cost up to +4 since its a +1 armor with +3 special ability.

so all the magic armor prices halved:

+2 > 2000gp
+3 > 4500gp
+4 > 8000gp

The total would be 15,000gp. and it will be a +1 Stoneplate with Wild Enchantment.

For future reference: If I would want to make the armor +2, I would use the cost of +5 armor but subtract the money I used beforehand. So I subtract 15000 from what would normally cost 27500 if i built from scratch and only have to pay 12500 with Craft Magic arms and armor feat.

[Cavall]

Pretty much. Yup.

Only other thing to know is that while you can have a maximum +10 on that armour in total enchants, only a max +5 for the numerical side.

So you could have +5 wild stoneplate. You could add in a total of +2 more in enchants. But it could never be better than +5 on the number side and the total could never be more than 10. (Meaning you could do for a different example +4 Wild and a +2 value enchant and a +1 value enchant for a total of 10.)

All of which would use that math you've figured out.

That make sense?

[OmniMage]

Crafting armor using the crafting skill is very slow. Especially when compared to magic item crafting. You would make maybe a few dozen gold pieces per week, as opposed to 1000 gp per day.

I would not blame you if opted to buy some other armor instead of crafting it yourself. It is not worth your time to craft something that expensive. You could easily get more wealth by adventuring in the same time needed to craft something expensive. If you really want that armor, pay someone else to make it while you adventure. You would be wealthy by the time its done.

[Meirril]

Chaos_Gamer01 wrote:

So far what I have got as for cost. Ignoring the cost to make armor from scratch.

I would craft the stoneplate as +1, which would cost 500gp.
Then I would use the cost up to +4 since its a +1 armor with +3 special ability.

so all the magic armor prices halved:

+2 > 2000gp
+3 > 4500gp
+4 > 8000gp

The total would be 15,000gp. and it will be a +1 Stoneplate with Wild Enchantment.

For future reference: If I would want to make the armor +2, I would use the cost of +5 armor but subtract the money I used beforehand. So I subtract 15000 from what would normally cost 27500 if i built from scratch and only have to pay 12500 with Craft Magic arms and armor feat.

No. That isn't how you figure the cost of armor and weapons. Determine the market price of the final item, then subtract the current value of the enhancements on the item. You can't remove properties from an item, you can only add more.

So if you made a generic +1 armor, the magic part of it would have a market value of 1000gp. Half of that is the creation cost. 500gp.

If you make that +1 into +2 armor later it will have a market value of 4,000gp. The cost to create is half of the new item - the old item, 4k - 1k = 3k. half = 1.5k

And if you try to add Wild to an item, it adds a price difference of +3. You can't use enhancement bonus on the armor to "pay" for the wild special ability. It goes up by +3 value all at once or not at all.

That means you can't take a +3 armor and "improve" it into a +1 wild armor. You can't remove the +3 you put on it, you can only add more to it.

A +1 wild armor is a +4 equivalent armor. When you make it the total market value is 16,000gp. The cost to create is 8,000gp. If you use a +1 armor to make it, you subtract 1000gp from the 16,000gp market value and then halve the result to get the cost to upgrade the +1 armor. So that would be (16k-1k/2) 7,500gp.

And again, you can't remove stuff you put on armor and weapons or other magic items. So if you made +3 armor, you can only add wild to it, you can't remove +2 of the +3 that exists on the armor to make the wild special ability cheaper. That is not how magic item creation works!

[Cavall]

I do not think that's what he was saying, just that it would be the cost of +3 more. I think you're both saying the same thing in different ways but in no way was there a suggestion to buy it piecemeal

[Cevah]

Louis IX wrote:

For the mundane part, either you buy the item or you make it. If you buy it, you need to buy the masterwork cost as well, in full. If you make it, you provide materials worth 1/3 (one-third) of the market cost, masterwork included. And spend much time crafting it: progress is counted in silver per week, with an amount equal to the DC multiplied by your Craft check.

The armor is Stone Plate 1800gp and masterwork 150gp. The raw materials are worth 650gp. The Armor Bonus is +9, thus a Craft DC of 19. Assuming you reach exactly that DC every time you roll (once per week), you'd gain 361 silver pieces of progress each week. For a 1950gp item, you'd need 54 weeks. More than a year. And that's without counting the potential failures setting you back or making no progress for a week.
But that's the only way to have what you want if you find no seller.

To enchant the stone plate, it must be masterwork. It must either be created that way, or use the Masterwork Transformation spell on a non-masterwork version.

If you craft the armor, the Stone Plate (+9 armor bonus) is DC 19. However, according to Create Masterwork Item, the DC of the masterwork component is DC 20.

Louis IX wrote:

To add the Wild enchantment, you spend the remaining of the +4 cost (4*4*1000 minus the 1000 for the +1, then take half, so... 7500gp), 15 days in a lab, and make a daily check with a DC of 14 (Wild is CL 9, which is a prerequisite due to the wording in the Creating Magic Armor section). Or DC 19 if the crafter doesn't have the Baleful Polymorph spell (or someone to cast it daily).

The DC to craft a +1 Wild armor is the maximum of the DCs of +1 armor and Wild Enchant. The +1 armor has DC 8, Wild has DC 14, therefor the +1 Wild armor has DC 14.

/cevah

[Quixote]

Chaos_Gamer01 wrote:

+2 > 2000gp

+3 > 4500gp
+4 > 8000gp

The total would be 15,000gp. and it will be a +1 Stoneplate with Wild Enchantment.

Almost.

The market price of +2 armor is 4,000gp total, not 4,000gp more than +1 armor. The cost of +4 armor is 16,000gp total, not 16,000+9,000+4,000+1,000.

So once you have your mundane masterwork armor, it costs 16,000/2=8,000gp to enchant it as +4 armor or an equivalent of.

[Cevah]

Quixote wrote:

Chaos_Gamer01 wrote:

+2 > 2000gp

+3 > 4500gp
+4 > 8000gp

The total would be 15,000gp. and it will be a +1 Stoneplate with Wild Enchantment.

Almost.

The market price of +2 armor is 4,000gp total, not 4,000gp more than +1 armor. The cost of +4 armor is 16,000gp total, not 16,000+9,000+4,000+1,000.

So once you have your mundane masterwork armor, it costs 16,000/2=8,000gp to enchant it as +4 armor or an equivalent of.

Almost. :-)

The market price of +2 armor is 4,000gp + armor cost total, not 4,000gp more than +1 armor. The cost of +4 armor is 16,000gp + armor cost total, not 16,000+9,000+4,000+1,000.

/cevah

[Quixote]

Cevah wrote:

Almost...

The market price of +2 armor is 4,000gp + armor cost...

Right, hence:

Quixote wrote:

So once you have your mundane masterwork armor, it costs...

But yes, the cost of a +2 enhancement bonus on armor is 4,000gp.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Chaos_Gamer01,

The chances are your Druidzilla will have a favorite shape. You should just have Barding made for you while you are in your Wildshape then have the party Wizard, Magus, or Paladin dress you with a Swift Girding spell.

Or dip a level in Magus and 'Gird yourself.

[Chaos_Gamer01]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Chaos_Gamer01,

The chances are your Druidzilla will have a favorite shape. You should just have Barding made for you while you are in your Wildshape then have the party Wizard, Magus, or Paladin dress you with a Swift Girding spell.

Or dip a level in Magus and 'Gird yourself.

No I am the only caster in a party of 3 unless someone shows up or we hire NPCs. I've mostly been taking flavor classes. I play a crazy old dwarf druid who lost his mind to an evil dryad and sort of sow chaos around. With a strange obsession with Gummy Bears. He took a dip in Alchemist levels so he could throw bombs and making potions in shapes of Gummy bears. And depending if DM actually progresses my Backstory for good or evil I might take a lvl in Witch for Evil Eye for Flavor.

[gnoams]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Chaos_Gamer01,

The chances are your Druidzilla will have a favorite shape. You should just have Barding made for you while you are in your Wildshape then have the party Wizard, Magus, or Paladin dress you with a Swift Girding spell.

Or dip a level in Magus and 'Gird yourself.

Aside rant:

Currently playing a dwarven druid in an ap, I just purchased some wild stoneplate myself. I think barding is what is recommended by number crunching theorists. It's so much cheaper that by the numbers in an optimal situation where you were able to prebuff and your chosen shape is just right for then it is much better than wild armor, you could have 3 better AC for the same price!

Yeah but then you lose the fun of being a druid, of being able to spontaneously turn into whatever animal fits the moment. You don't get those cool scenes where you turn into a giant squid to do battle with a giant octopus for supremacy of the seas. Because you are a lion druid, dire lion is the optimal combat form, so that is all you do. Don't ruin your fun by being a boring lion druid.

[Ryan Freire]

gnoams wrote:

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

Chaos_Gamer01,

The chances are your Druidzilla will have a favorite shape. You should just have Barding made for you while you are in your Wildshape then have the party Wizard, Magus, or Paladin dress you with a Swift Girding spell.

Or dip a level in Magus and 'Gird yourself.

Aside rant:

Currently playing a dwarven druid in an ap, I just purchased some wild stoneplate myself. I think barding is what is recommended by number crunching theorists. It's so much cheaper that by the numbers in an optimal situation where you were able to prebuff and your chosen shape is just right for then it is much better than wild armor, you could have 3 better AC for the same price!

Yeah but then you lose the fun of being a druid, of being able to spontaneously turn into whatever animal fits the moment. You don't get those cool scenes where you turn into a giant squid to do battle with a giant octopus for supremacy of the seas. Because you are a lion druid, dire lion is the optimal combat form, so that is all you do. Don't ruin your fun by being a boring lion druid.

Imagine never wanting to play a plant druid that turns into an assassin vine and eventually a treant

[blahpers]

Welp, this didn't take long to turn into a "stop playing what I don't play" thread.