Ha! So not my first time. The second character I ever rolled up way back in AD&D had a party member she couldn't stand. An intraparty rivalry can add a bit of spice to a campaign, as long as it doesn't become the sole focus of the players involved. I once had two players who got so involved in picking at each other via their PCs that I stopped in the middle of the session and asked, "What is the party's goal right now? Do you even remember what your mission is?" When all I got back was, "Uhhh...," I just called it: "This campaign is over. The world ends because the heroes were too busy fighting amongst themselves to deal with the threat."
I don't think Nuveril and Grall are in any danger of going that far. ;)
Well, it's entirely possible I'm missing things due to my overall ignorance of the setting. Good for playing a fish-out-of-water PC, bad for picking up nuance. I still really have no idea what a Rough Seed is, except that it's connected to Rovagug in some way so is probably a bad thing, and I know that rubies are supposed to be indicative of ... denizens of Leng, is it? But I don't have any clue what they're about either. And when Grall or Nuveril ask a question about it IC, we basically get brushed off with a "don't worry about it, it's above your paygrade," which is probably a reasonable reaction when a barbarian asks about complicated things, but it doesn't help me get a handle on what exactly the party's mission is right now.
I'm presuming that the mention of rubies in Sev's journal is supposed to indicate a possible connection between her sister's quest and Zeladiel's Sunset Ship which I gather has something to do with Leng, but there's no way for Nuveril to make that connection and no one has said a word to her about it. She gets that there's a connection between her sister and the scroll of Kakishon, but the point of taking it to Katapesh, as she understands it, is to kiss up to some stuffy old consorter with arcane spirits to ask questions about it and she sees no reason why those more suited to not causing problems in polite society with noble wizards can't go and do that and then come back with what they've learned. (I get that they're probably going to get attacked and not ever come back to Kelmarane because that's how APs go, but she doesn't know she's a PC.)
And as far as protection from Zayifid, I haven't picked up a vibe that anyone else is that concerned about him. Grall seems to think he can handle it alone, anyway, as no one's suggested we should do anything but go on with our separate ordinary Kelmarane routines. I presume he'll be smart enough to appear as someone important that we're supposed to be polite to anyway, and Nuveril's had enough of getting...
Sorry I think the discussion on risky striker got sidetracked by adding up equipment values. I opened up the door on the ARG a bit more when discussing Alex's alternative character choices and have had some time to go through it. I'm Ok with it.
In terms of niche I would say Nuveril's ultimately is anti-magic fighter, far more so than Grall who ultimately will be relying on rage alone to boost his paltry fighter saves. Thats a niche that only really comes into play later of course and her two-weapon witchunter style of fighting is late build as well. I don't think Nuveril will be out-damaging Grall except maybe at high levels but as we proceed we should see her less suseptible to the immoblisers that can take meleers out of the fight completely.
In any event I have to say I kind of like the "second-best" pathos. It drives the character and creates interesting interactions. As long as you the player are having fun.
In terms of her goals at the moment she has a trail of breadcrumbs to Katapesh in the scroll, the journal and the things it mentions (there are quite a few hints in there) and the rubies (although frankly I wasn't expecting anyone to neccessarily get that). And yes it is a trail of breadcrumbs but that was intentional.
In terms of Nuveril's motives I as the DM get the following things from her background:
- Wants to fight gnolls.
- Has a mysterious background (and presumably wants to find out about it).
- Wants to prove herself as a warrior.
Well the first of these is winding down obviously but thats because the mission is complete. She was part of the group that defeated the legendary carrion king in his home. Nothing much gnoll related she can do now to top that unless its do something similar by herself and if thats her driving motivation then its obviously at odds with continuing with the group.
As to the second she has her breadcrumbs. They are enough to motivate her or not. It seems apparently not.
As to the third I would have thought striving to overtake Grall her rival is a decent reason for sticking around. Can't outdo him when he's not there to see it even if she consciously admits it. Theres also that pesky meta-fact thats common to all games, travelling with the group and overcoming challenges shes rapidly becoming a much stronger combatant able to fight and beat much stronger things. I tend to rationalise this as PCs being very special individuals. At least its the only way I can see mages going from casting sleep to wish in perhaps a year or two.
I was thinking a fourth motive might develop, actually liking one or more of the party members and wanting to help that one or more but it seems still a way to go there :)
With that said you say she feels uncertain and to be perfectly honest I don't think thats an illogical or unusual thing. People often are completely unsure what to do with their lives and make hasty decisions to do particular things without much reasoning. At the end of the day what is Nuveril going to do given her various inner conflicts? She can't go home because its not home anymore. She can't stay in Kelmarane. She could go to Solku and basically sign on to slaughter gnolls for the rest of her life or go with the group.
My two cents anyway. If it helps, again at a metalevel and notwithstanding what I said above (which was supposed to be a joke) this is not something that will keep coming up. I imagine you'll all feel like things are a bit more on the raily side for the latter half of the AP (although hopefully my rails will be a bit harder to see).
In terms of niche I would say Nuveril's ultimately is anti-magic fighter, far more so than Grall who ultimately will be relying on rage alone to boost his paltry fighter saves. Thats a niche that only really comes into play later of course and her two-weapon witchunter style of fighting is late build as well. I don't think Nuveril will be out-damaging Grall except maybe at high levels but as we proceed we should see her less suseptible to the immoblisers that can take meleers out of the fight completely.
Considering my typical luck with the dice, I find it hard to see "making saves" as a niche when it still requires me not to roll below a 6. And thinking about this, I just realized our free re-rolls died with Sajan. Seemed like every fight that ability of his kept one of us from being sidelined for the whole encounter. Khalid and I are screwed. :P
In terms of her goals at the moment she has a trail of breadcrumbs to Katapesh in the scroll, the journal and the things it mentions (there are quite a few hints in there) and the rubies (although frankly I wasn't expecting anyone to necessarily get that).
That's my lack of setting-knowledge, then, because I don't see anything in the journal that points to Katapesh. More germanely, Nuveril knows of nothing in the journal that indicates her sister might have been in Katapesh. If someone in the know were to point out whatever these breadcrumbs are, it would certainly interest her.
1d20 + 1 ⇒ (11) + 1 = 12
1d20 + 1 ⇒ (17) + 1 = 18
1d20 + 1 ⇒ (20) + 1 = 21
GRRR! I totally knew you and your damned +1 were going to outdo all Nuveril's actual investment in the skill. I really hate being in games with you sometimes. :P
If it makes you feel better, I was rooting for low numbers! :D
Guys in china for meetings this week which is why posting is slow. only time for short posts til the weekend im afraid.
Back and eager to move forward.
And that's why I'm not impressed with a niche of "Oh, your save bonuses are higher than anyone else's." Bonuses vanish in importance versus actually rolling low or high.
Honestly, I tend to roll pretty well IRL. It's only the Paizo dice roller that hates me.
So at this stage I have options whether Nuveril goes with the group or elects not to. Things will play out rather differently for each but I think both are interesting. Second option may have the party split for a while 'tho.
It hasn't yet occurred to Zeladiel she may not come. He'll definitely talk to her if she indicates otherwise, though he realises that his desire to have her and her background studied and researched may not be much of a draw card. :-)
The hunting trip is waiting on Arasmes but from other threads Alex isn't posting. Everyone else ready to move on?
The hunting trip is waiting on Arasmes but from other threads Alex isn't posting. Everyone else ready to move on?
Ready when everyone else is...
I'm ready. I thought about scribing some scrolls but i don't know what kind, and how much funding i've got so i might as well skip it.
And that's why I'm not impressed with a niche of "Oh, your save bonuses are higher than anyone else's." Bonuses vanish in importance versus actually rolling low or high.
Honestly, I tend to roll pretty well IRL. It's only the Paizo dice roller that hates me.
I know how you feel, but at least you have IRL dice luck. I don't even have that. I tend to have the intention of building a competent character but I mostly end up with an incompetent fool, no matter how I try. My character's glory usually ends the moment the GM says "Can you a skill check, please?"
I'm ready. I thought about scribing some scrolls but i don't know what kind, and how much funding i've got so i might as well skip it.
And that's why I'm not impressed with a niche of "Oh, your save bonuses are higher than anyone else's." Bonuses vanish in importance versus actually rolling low or high.
Honestly, I tend to roll pretty well IRL. It's only the Paizo dice roller that hates me.
I know how you feel, but at least you have IRL dice luck. I don't even have that. I tend to have the intention of building a competent character but I mostly end up with an incompetent fool, no matter how I try. My character's glory usually ends the moment the GM says "Can you a skill check, please?"
We have 10596.8gp in the party fund (once we have sold everything). Feel free to scribe scolls using that fund as needed. We should have at least several thousand in cash at the moment to equip ourselves as needed.
Inviso Purge
Daylight
Remove Disease
Prayer
are all good choices at your level...once we get to Katapesh we should buy a scroll of Breath of Life.
If you ever have any questions about funds just ask...Grall was a scribe in a former life, now...not so much :)
Pretty sure Linah has a scroll of breath of life. There was talk of whether she should have used it or not when Sajan died, although by RAW I believe she'd have to either already have it in her hand and ready when he fell or already be close enough to touch him, as retrieving a scroll is a move action. That makes a scroll of breath of life a lot less useful than you'd think, as you can't pull it out, move, and cast within the time limit.
EDIT: Yep, it's on her character sheet. If you think you're about to get killed, you'd better be within 5 feet of Linah at the time, though. ;)
Due to action economy limitations, I really don't think breath of life is worth spending money on in scroll form.
Linah is free to scribe but note time constraints please. She can be taken to have bought supplies and do crafting on the road but note that makes things much slower. She will need to work out what she is doing by the time you leave please.
I've commented a few times on breath of life. As Joana says it seems rather difficult to use and you still have the one.
I was hoping to get things moving along before we gott taken up in Christmas slowdown but we haven't quite managed it. I have a few days of meetings in Switzerland tomorrow and wednesday then a few days in Austria after that, home on the weekend. Then Christmas obviously. So I don't think we will get much further but would really like for you to sort out your prep and any final interactions by then please.
Oooh, oooh, it's arrived.
So, for the Black Friday sales I spent up at the Paizo shop and bought two entire Adventure Paths at $5 a book. It came through today with my regular subscription, plus some other bits and pieces (cards, maps, minis).
Sadly, the two Adventure Paths on sale were...
Legacy of Fire and Second Darkness.
So, Dan... what, if anything, can I read of this- or do I have to wait a year or three?
Ditto Joana. How much of your Riddleport game is based on Second Darkness, and therefore, how much should I not read?
It's okay to say, "Read nothing!" I have other games to occupy me, and besides, my wife has bought me the entire Carrion Crown AP over last Christmas and this Christmas and, as an ongoing present - the gift that keeps giving, she's running it for me and our group, which not only means I can't read my Christmas presents, but she's reading them first so she can run them. The horror. :-)
So, if there's some non-spoilery stuff I can get a quick fix with, please share. Otherwise, I'll dump them on MY bookshelf next to MY Carrion Crown AP, and stroke them wistfully as I pass. :-)
You can read the second half of the AP. Even assuming we make it that far, I'll have diverged far from the storyline by book 4.
Book 1 has lots of spoilers for the background plot and overall AP. Starting with the adventure sections proper isn't going to give much of anything away though and book 2 is pretty self-contained. Book 3 and after is all spoilers obviously.
By the by I just worked out where Father Zantus comes from after reading my rise of the runelords anniversary addition. Always wondered why Tanner changed the name in book 1.
I'm more or less back from holidays now. Assume not everyone is though.
I will be unreliable until the first of january, 2013. Or rather the second of january, since I'll arrive in the evening.
Please note the campaign tab does (as requested) have a collation of your information to date. Worth a look if you've forgotten after months of real time and don't want to wade through back posts.
Oh and I assume from posts elsewhere that Alex will be back at some point. I'm treating him in NPC mode until then.
Appreciated.
We have another party member????? :]
I was beginning to think we lost two!!!!
Your talking 15' - 20' long for a dire lion and between 4-6 thousand pounds so yeah a thorougly apex predator.
Please note the campaign tab does (as requested) have a collation of your information to date. Worth a look if you've forgotten after months of real time and don't want to wade through back posts.
The stuff on the campaign tab, is that things that have previously been handled in spoilers because I don't recognise the majority of it. Granted I do have a sh*tty memory :)
I saw the name Andrathi mentioned in "The Courts of Stone and Flame" but I can't remember that Zeladiel has mentioned that he thinks Nuveril is related to her. Is it my memory that's blank or did that take place within a spoiler when Linah wasn't around?
Some of it is and has been subsequently shared, most notably the dreams.
Zeladiel though has raised his theory a few times openly (outside of spoilers). Would have to check but Linah might not have been physically present and you paid no mind.
Damn, my memory failing me then :/
Actually, I think that the only time Andrathi's putative connection to Nuveril was discussed out loud was when Zeladiel and Nuveril were talking by themselves before going down into the Pit of Screaming Ghosts, or whatever it was called. It wasn't spoilered, but since no one else was privy to the conversation, it's not unreasonable that you might have skipped over it.* And I think the dreams weren't shared in-character as much as it was said, "Khalid tells the others Vardishal's memories he's dreamed" and they were reposted in spoilers. (This was after finding the tomb of the gnoll priestess and before going back up for the last fight against the gnolls.)
Might not be a bad idea to tease out the implications explicitly in-character sometime during our trek to make sure everyone's on the same page. While Nuveril's been told the most about it, she's also the least likely to understand the implications thereof. Will post IC in an hour or two.
*Looks like he also mentioned it to Arasmes when we met him on our return to Kelmarane, but it was after you'd left to follow Nuveril when she stormed out so Linah missed that one, too. So, yeah, technically Linah's never heard his theory.
Zeladiel's accusations that Linah has not been paying attention are completely unfounded. Zeladiel has mentioned his findings to Nuveril and assumed that others nearby 'just know'. To be fair, he got a few bad rolls before figuring stuff out, then we went into the dungeon, then we came back with slaves. His outburst to Linah is probably the closest he's come to discussing it with the group. Being somewhat private, I don't think it's occurred to him to share with the group someone else's personal background.
Redemption! \o/
He takes a position next to Haleen and spends the rest of the night "sharing her company"...
Please let this not be a euphemism. ;P
Get your mind out of the gutter young lady....lol
no it was just being with her. He wouldn't subject anyone to that
Radi, clearly bemused, stays silent through this although the herders speak quietly to each other in their own tongue.
What is the herders' tongue, btw? Are they speaking Badawi?
Mentioned it a while back. Its a mongrel combination of the southern badawi tribes and Kelshite. So you would probably get a bit of it.
"Hold our position for now, we will give Nuveril a bit of time, these are her people after all. Or at least that is what I am assuming, given that she is talking and not pounding on them with a hammer."
That is gold. :-D
The BIG question is...are all of her people as angry as Nuveril is??? If so we are in trouble :]
Heh. :)
So the two PCs travel out to the west and successfully make contact with the halfling tribe, but the halflings demand that they prove their people's worth by a ceremonial duel in a ring against one of their warriors. The paladins are dismayed by the prospect of needless violence, but this seems to be the only way they'll fulfill their mission so one of them agrees to fight a halfling champion in the ring. He wins (I rolled terribly for the halfling) and immediately lays hands on the fallen halfling to heal him. The halfling regains consciousness, finds himself still in the ring and thus still in the fight by the rules of the challenge, and immediately strikes back at the man who healed him. The paladin defeats him again and this time has learned to wait until he's carried out of the ring to offer more healing.
The halflings are impressed with this warrior culture. The stranger beat down their champion and then put him back on his feet so he could beat him down again; these people must be ruthless! So they agree to open friendly negotiations with the encroaching kingdom.
Then there's a commotion from among the halfling ranks. Oh, that's just Nevril, the halfling leaders roll their eyes. She always has a chip on her shoulder. Ignore her. But this halfling chick demands to face the other stranger in the ring, insisting she has the right to challenge and prove herself.
Now the second paladin will not strike a woman and also has chivalry issues about hitting people smaller than him (which is why the other paladin handled the original challenge in the first place). But, not wanting to offend their hosts and jeopardize their mission, he accepts the challenge, deciding to just stand in the ring and let her beat him into unconsciousness. The way he figures it, she's happy, the halflings are happy, and he's taking one for the team, which makes him happy.
Only when he refuses to fight back, Nevril's not happy. Fight me! Fight me! Fight me! she ends up screaming with every blow, tears of frustration in her eyes, but he refuses to take up arms against her. He eventually falls, but Nevril's impression is that he felt she wasn't a worthy foe and thus the whole thing was just a kind of performance-art way for these newcomers' warrior culture to disrespect her. Disgraced, she leaves her tribe, obsessed with proving her worth through mighty deeds so that she can return in glory.
That's when I started playing her as a PC; she was just too much fun not to. She went on to have a fledgling human settlement named after her, defeat a red dragon wyrmling in single combat at level 2 through an insanely lucky series of rolls, and demand to be taught to write her name despite being illiterate so that the deeds she did when no one was around to see them would still be attributed to her, at which point a party member taught her to write "Nevril is stupid" and told her it was her name, so she starting leaving it scrawled on cavern walls wherever she defeated an enemy. Oh, and her goal was to destroy Pelor and all who followed him.
Compared to Nevril Elderberry, Nuveril's actually fairly well-adjusted.
I like it.
Things would have gone rather differently with Grall up front....
Hey, Nuveril might not be a genius, but she's smart enough to know that a gnoll strolling through one's neighborhood is unlikely to draw positive attention. ;)
Ignorant heretic! That's what you get for not knuckling under and worshiping Sarenrae like everyone else. ;)
Arasmes pays service to her he just doesn't consider her his patron.
The early books in particular are fairly obscenely weighted toward Sarenrae worship for an AP. Doubly so if you count all the Rovagugians.
I would understand worshippers or members of her church getting a bonus on a knowledge check or the DC being higher for Arasmes, but its annoying to simply not get a check. Thanks for rolling with it.
Edit: Just realised I rolled far higher than either of them...
If there is a dice roll involved the odds are pretty low that Linah will come out on top. And Khalid as well given his dice luck :)
I would understand worshippers or members of her church getting a bonus on a knowledge check or the DC being higher for Arasmes, but its annoying to simply not get a check. Thanks for rolling with it.
Edit: Just realised I rolled far higher than either of them...
All of the information was up for grabs with a high enough check. Because it seemed appropriate I was basically letting them sub religion for tidbits about the paladin only at a reduced DC.
You had a much wider amount of information available with knowledge local.
Sorry if it seems like I'm pushing things. Realised I'd opened the door on something that could lead to days and days of discussions on something that is not very interesting. I like this approach and you might speculate on what Haleen's motives are.
...assuming they can make the DC 10 Knowledge (religion) check to recognize a holy symbol. And that they know anything about Sarenrae except that she's a sun-goddess other peoples worship. I don't think wearing a cross or a Star of David would greatly influence animists one way or another.
Maybe if you started fighting with two scimitars and took up amateur philosophizing ad nauseum during chapter breaks.... ;)
He is more of a "I wonder how they taste???" kind of hero...