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So it's worth noting that Prestigious specifically states you can't get spellcasting from it:
Benefit: Select one prestige class. You gain all the class features (proficiencies and abilities listed in the “special” column of the class writeup) of that prestige class other than spellcasting.
Emphasis mine.
I think this is where the confusion is coming from, and hope I have done my part to help dispel it.
I think the idea was that total level was 12 -- including prestige classes; I think you're level 14 here right?
Yes. I had those numbers up before and neither I or anyone else noted the issue.
This would correct the issue then?
Classes: Paladin (Virtuous Bravo, Weapon Champion, Oath of Charity - not free) 10 // Bard (Arcane Duelist, Dervish Dancer) 10
PRCs: Holy Vindicator 2 // Mystic Theurge 1 / Soul Warden 1
Mythic Tiers: Champion 3 // Hierophant 3 (Dual Path into Archmage)
Templates: None taken
3CR template for 6 more class levels; would, I think you still leave + 3 template cr w/ that build, you could convert 2 to 1 mr, and then have 1 left over. I think +1cr template is the least you could have.
Was the change from 1 CR = 1 gestalt level to =2 gestalt levels deliberate, and does it apply to the other campaigns if so?
I'm pretty sure that's what we decided for all campaigns already isn't it?
I think I'm getting confused on the 'Template CR <> Gestalt <> Mythic Tiers' equasion and examples. Going by the examples given on the [url]build rules page[/url], what I understood was the following:
2 Template CR = 2 Character Level (2/2 class levels) = 1 Mythic (1/1 Tier).
Character level was max 12; Mythic tier was max 4. This could produce any of these:
Fighter 6 / Rogue 6, 6 Template CR, 3/3 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 12 / Rogue 12, No templates, 3/3 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 6 / Rogue 6, 4 Template CR, 4/4 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 8 / Rogue 8, 4 Template CR, 3/3 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 10 / Rogue 8 / PrC 2, 2 Template CR, 3/3 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 10 / Rogue 6 / PrC 4, 2 Template CR, 3/3 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 12 / Rogue 8 / PrC 4, 2 Template CR, 2/2 Mythic tiers.
Etc. Is this correct? If so, you can (as many of the PCs here do) have no Template CRs but be L10/T4 or L12/T3 ...
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In other news, Num is ... more-or-less complete and coherent. Next up, Shuurga, then Ukhaanti, both of which are far less complicated in the long run ...
A question, though.
The Feat:
Eagle-Eyed Distance penalizes your Perception checks at -1/50'.
The Skill Unlock:
Perception Skill Unlock (5) The distance modifier on the DC of Perception checks you attempt is reduced to +1 per 20 feet.
Would these combine? Standard being -1/10', the unlock essentially doubles the distance; would Eagle-Eyed become -1/100'?
I think I'm getting confused on the 'Template CR <> Gestalt <> Mythic Tiers' equasion and examples. Going by the examples given on the [url]build rules page[/url], what I understood was the following:
2 Template CR = 2 Character Level (2/2 class levels) = 1 Mythic (1/1 Tier).
Character level was max 12; Mythic tier was max 4. This could produce any of these:
Fighter 6 / Rogue 6, 6 Template CR, 3/3 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 12 / Rogue 12, No templates, 3/3 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 6 / Rogue 6, 4 Template CR, 4/4 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 8 / Rogue 8, 4 Template CR, 3/3 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 10 / Rogue 8 / PrC 2, 2 Template CR, 3/3 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 10 / Rogue 6 / PrC 4, 2 Template CR, 3/3 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 12 / Rogue 8 / PrC 4, 2 Template CR, 2/2 Mythic tiers.Etc. Is this correct? If so, you can (as many of the PCs here do) have no Template CRs but be L10/T4 or L12/T3 ...
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In other news, Num is ... more-or-less complete and coherent. Next up, Shuurga, then Ukhaanti, both of which are far less complicated in the long run ...
A question, though.
The Feat:
Eagle-Eyed Distance penalizes your Perception checks at -1/50'.The Skill Unlock:
Perception Skill Unlock (5) The distance modifier on the DC of Perception checks you attempt is reduced to +1 per 20 feet.Would these combine? Standard being -1/10', the unlock essentially doubles the distance; would Eagle-Eyed become -1/100'?
I'll look at it again; I think I might have messed up something w/ the examples.
I thought the other campaigns were 1:1 on CR for gestalt levels. If it’s actually 1:2, either as a change or something I missed, I need to tweak a few things.
I’m starting to get a character for this campaign. I’m thinking talented monk archer and talented witch, and see what happens from there with the companion. Does anyone know of a way to give animal companions a ranged attack? Kineticist maybe?
Classes, templates and PrCs costs +1 CR via the extra +6 'bin' we all get.
However, you can only take templates up to +3 in CR, meaning no templates that are +4 or higher. You are not limited in how many templates you take, other than the max of +6. You could take two +3 templates, three +2, etc.
Mythic tiers cost 2 CR out of the +6 'bin' and you are limited to tier 4, period.
Some games started off with mythic tiers automatically, some may not. I'm unsure if this game is giving us any mythic tiers to begin with, but no PC may be higher than tier 4, regardless.
My Dark Sun PC, for example, was made with two mythic tiers, long before we came up with this extra +6 concept. I could give him 2 more mythic tiers, at the cost of +4 from that 'bin', but that's the max.
Seb, regarding the earlier question of power imbalance if somebody went with lower base classes, my suggestion would be that we all need to take the minimum levels in base classes.
So, for this game, you have to take 6 levels in base classes. In Rise, you would need to take 3.
I feel like this will avoid any unnecessary confusion or weird corner cases.
I'm going to revisit my numbers when I don't have a head cold. ;)
Operating on +2 levels (2/2) = +2 Template = +1 Tier (1/1), Num and Ukhaantai are both complete and prettied up, with the latter a half-stage sort of familiar (108 in attributes and +5 in templates, but no classes); Shuurga is complete but not yet as pretty as the other two.
Still looking for an answer to this:
The Feat:
Eagle-Eyed Distance penalizes your Perception checks at -1/50'.
The Skill Unlock:
Perception Skill Unlock (5) The distance modifier on the DC of Perception checks you attempt is reduced to +1 per 20 feet.
How are these going to affect each other? The standard penalty is -1/10' distance. Should these be considered multipliers (-1/50' = x5 distance, -1/20' = x2 distance, therefore x10 distance, -1/100'), or simply additive (-1/50' = +40', -1/20' = +10', therefore +50', -1/60')? Additive might be easier, as the Perception skill unlocks works up to /30', /40', and /60', though multipliers (x2, x3, x4, and x6) would combine with Eagle Eyed and make it considerably more epic (to /100', /150', /200', and /300').
I'm still pretty ill myself and have not been in good form for complex character creation.
@Sebecloki: Any more thoughts on those examples? Particularly how prestige classes fit in?
I'll try to update the character creation rules sometime this week w/ all the possible level combinations; I'm working around 70 hours a week right now, so my free time is not plentiful as I would like for gaming.
No worries.
I am going to have to take a step back from this one... .Life is pretty hectic at the moment and another complex game is just not going to be something I can keep up with, even at a slow pace.
I think we lost several interested parties; I think I will start an official recruitment thread and try to clarify a few rules issues when I do; I am working every day until the 20th, so my posting is going to be intermittent until then.
RL comes first — take your time.
Operating on +2 levels (2/2) = +2 Template = +1 Tier (1/1), Num and Ukhaantai are both complete and prettied up, with the latter a half-stage sort of familiar (108 in attributes and +5 in templates, but no classes); Shuurga is complete but not yet as pretty as the other two.
Still looking for an answer to this:
The Feat:
Eagle-Eyed Distance penalizes your Perception checks at -1/50'.The Skill Unlock:
Perception Skill Unlock (5) The distance modifier on the DC of Perception checks you attempt is reduced to +1 per 20 feet.How are these going to affect each other? The standard penalty is -1/10' distance. Should these be considered multipliers (-1/50' = x5 distance, -1/20' = x2 distance, therefore x10 distance, -1/100'), or simply additive (-1/50' = +40', -1/20' = +10', therefore +50', -1/60')? Additive might be easier, as the Perception skill unlocks works up to /30', /40', and /60', though multipliers (x2, x3, x4, and x6) would combine with Eagle Eyed and make it considerably more epic (to /100', /150', /200', and /300').
You can use whichever interpretation you deem best.
How're everyone's characters coming?
I think I'm getting confused on the 'Template CR <> Gestalt <> Mythic Tiers' equasion and examples. Going by the examples given on the [url]build rules page[/url], what I understood was the following:
2 Template CR = 2 Character Level (2/2 class levels) = 1 Mythic (1/1 Tier).
Character level was max 12; Mythic tier was max 4. This could produce any of these:
Fighter 6 / Rogue 6, 6 Template CR, 3/3 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 12 / Rogue 12, No templates, 3/3 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 6 / Rogue 6, 4 Template CR, 4/4 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 8 / Rogue 8, 4 Template CR, 3/3 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 10 / Rogue 8 / PrC 2, 2 Template CR, 3/3 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 10 / Rogue 6 / PrC 4, 2 Template CR, 3/3 Mythic tiers.
Fighter 12 / Rogue 8 / PrC 4, 2 Template CR, 2/2 Mythic tiers.Etc. Is this correct? If so, you can (as many of the PCs here do) have no Template CRs but be L10/T4 or L12/T3 ...
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The confusion is you can trade 1 CR template for Prc 2//PrC 2, not just PrC 2 on one side of a gestalt I think.
I may revive my old character for this campaign... if I can figure out a proper build!
Is there such a thing as a reference document that specifies build rules?
I may revive my old character for this campaign... if I can figure out a proper build!
Is there such a thing as a reference document that specifies build rules?
This?I may revive my old character for this campaign... if I can figure out a proper build!
Is there such a thing as a reference document that specifies build rules?
Yes, though I'm continuing to try to clarify and add stuff to it -- that's the most comprehensive version right now.
Wow. I had forgotten how complex these builds can become!
Would it be too late to try and join in? I've got an idea for a character that is of the bloodline of Genghis Khan unless someone already has a character like that.
Not at all, I'm still trying to wrastle up enough interested people
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I think it might be a good idea to start a brand new, actual recruitment. That's the best way to get potential new players. Also, they won't need to read through 430 posts to make sure they haven't missed anything important.
I'm still planning on trying to make something for this, but won't be ready for awhile yet.
Would an enchanter type character be strong with these build rules? Thinking a spy/diplomat/disguise sort of guy out of combat and enchanting/controlling magic in combat.
I agree with Monkeygod on this one. Much of what has been discussed in the mountain of posts isn't relevant any more.
I'll return to character creation when I have a sizable free evening again.
Would a disgraced Japanese sorcerer who has taken to seeking his fortune on the mainland via divinations indicating the Khan's conquest (and therefore offered his services as aid) fit in here?
Planning a human/kitsune(hybrid feat?) fey sorcerer character with a lot of shape changing and mind altering magic.
That sounds fine for a character: I'm working 74 hours this week, so I probably won't be able to create a proper recruitment thread until sometime next week.
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Jesus man, I hope they're giving you some time off soon!
I work in a 24/7 medical lab (I think I've mentioned that to most of the people here I'm regularly gaming with) and we're short staffed and need to do a bunch of training for new employees, and I'm also responsible for writing safety reports each week. Health care tends to be kind of nuts like that.
Also, my hours just got upgraded to 84 for this week. I'm really not going to have time to do anything but try to respond quickly to some posts.
Also, can I put in a pitch for my Numenera game: Tides of Numenera: Redemption. We could use a couple more players. Also, since we're using essentially the same rules, with color alignments and allowing spheres, you could just reskin your character from this somehow, or just change its alignment, and inport whole sale if you want. Its about a group of amnesiacs who wake up underwater in the Ninth world and they're exploring a small coastal town inspired by hommelet and other similar early DnD sites. Its a hex crawl.
I'll take a look at it.
I don't think I could do 2 characters this complex or powerful right now and I wouldn't want to play the same character build twice so I will stick to just making a character for this game.
I hope your work load lets up a little for you soon, that is crazy hours.
Progress on my character: taking Mesmerist with Sorcerer to go all in on the mind affecting arena. Background wise, I'm thinking of going with a relative of the current japanese imperial family, banished for bringing dishonor with some of the ways that he uses his mind-altering magic. Haven't found a name yet but working on the backstory.
I had some confusion myself on our exchange system for the levels and CR -- I think I fixed it in the campaign info page now.
The conversion is 1 CR = 1//1 gestalt base class or prestige class; 2 CR = 1//1 gestalt mythic tier.
Right! Then Num, Shuurga, and Ukhaantai are all ready. And I’ve a derivation (fairly extensive, zen archer monk / amnesiac psychic, with an investigator/bard familiar) of Num not yet on the boards, The Infinite Fool, (Blue w/ Red and Green elements) put together for your Numenera campaign. Will PM you after work.
Daryun, Son of Erlik, stands ready as well.
I did 85 hours last week and I have like 60+ to do this week, but I promise I'll restart the recruitment thread sometime soon. I can probably begin with the characters we already have prepared shortly. I should start having days off again next week and be able to get this underway.
No worries. I'm sure I won't be the only person still here next week.
I'm still here, though next week i'm on holiday for 3 weeks. Will try to post if something happens but no guarantees. Been crafting the backstory for my banished Japanese prince. Will work on it more if anyone sees any issues, and am not sure where exactly we are starting, though he has been there for several years getting on the mongol's good side. I only have a basic build atm but will get that done when I can. The outline is Sorcerer 8/Mesmerist 8 // Archmage 3/Marshal 3 with Half-Succubus and Lusting templates.
Fortune had cursed Yaku with a gift that hid a more sinister mutation. He seemed to have a natural affinity with the magic of the spirits. His sorcerous powers manifested as a boy and he hid it from his family. He knew he was not meant to be a sorcerer but an emperor someday. Nevertheless with the help and blessing of his pet fox, a kitsune spirit in disguise, he practised and grew his powers, absorbing the spirit's powers into himself.
unbeknownst to him, an evil Oni sprit had been watching his growth. Due to an ancient possession, his blood was corrupted with that of the demon hundreds of years ago. It had long been waiting and biding its time until one was born that had its gift. Yaku was the one the Oni had been waiting for. Sometimes it would disguise itself as the fox and whisper questionable things in his ear. Over time as he became a man he began to embrace these new values as his own.
With his natural gift of the tongue infused with a little of his sorcery, he could sway almost any mind for his own gain. Unfortunately the women money and power that he gained caught the attention of those who he could not sway and they saw his acts as ill-befitting a future emperor. Some wanted him dead, some feared what he might do if he became emporer. His family saw his dishonourable acts and gave him a choice. Rather than potentially lose his life he could choose banishment.
He was sent to the mainland as punishment but also given a purpose. The imperials were worried about the one named Genghis Khan who had rose to great power in a short time. Yaku was to use his 'gifts' to join them and learn of any intention to conquer his homeland. He did not care to serve them in this way and would have travelled wherever he pleased if not for the bidding of the Oni that had corrupted him. Following the conquering Khan was just the first step that would increase Yaku's already formidable powers.
It wasn't easy gaining the trust of the Mongols as an outsider, but his skills were beneficial in slowly winning them over from being an outsider to a useful outsider. All the while he kept a wary eye out for others that the imperials might have sent to look for him. He could not trust them not the change their mind of have him disposed of instead.
This is still in recruitment, correct? If so, I'd like to play an Aegis/Daevic gestalt, using some of the new options shown in Archforge: Stars Left Behind, as well as the currently-in-playtest Veilweaving Sphere.
Alternatively, I did have a SoM Striker || PoW Mystic build that I had been yearning to try at some point. Maybe with the Mythic Spheres of Might options also currently in playtest?
If I'm getting this right, we can get up to 12/12 in both classes and then add 3 Mythic Tiers from 2 separate paths on top, right? Assuming we want to max out our class levels, of course.
Generally, if it brings in a new system, it isn't being allowed in this game. Psionics, Path of War, and Spheres have already been specifically called out; Seb would like everyone to understand what everyone else can do, and such things would be introducing entirely new systems to some people.
Yes, you can get up to 12/12 classes and 3/3 tiers. Max classes is 12/12, max tiers is 4/4 (which you can't have simultaneously).
Oh wow this hasn't started yet? I got really bogged down with work and didn't want to hold you guys up! But if this isn't closed yet I'm still all into it!
Oh wow this hasn't started yet? I got really bogged down with work and didn't want to hold you guys up! But if this isn't closed yet I'm still all into it!
Definitely still open.
This is still in recruitment, correct? If so, I'd like to play an Aegis/Daevic gestalt, using some of the new options shown in Archforge: Stars Left Behind, as well as the currently-in-playtest Veilweaving Sphere.
Alternatively, I did have a SoM Striker || PoW Mystic build that I had been yearning to try at some point. Maybe with the Mythic Spheres of Might options also currently in playtest?
If I'm getting this right, we can get up to 12/12 in both classes and then add 3 Mythic Tiers from 2 separate paths on top, right? Assuming we want to max out our class levels, of course.
I made a strong encouragement for people to find alternative builds with Paizo material that achieved the same thing, and then said we could talk about it if there really isn't anything that will achieve the same result.
At this point, a lot of the people who had concerns about it have already left the recruitment, so I'm not sure this is such a big issue as it was.
However, I don't want to open a huge can of worms if people who already finished their characters feel like they would have done something else, so let's hear some comments from the current crowd about whether they care if I open up the options a bit more at this point.
How would everyone feel if started everything off with a post, but with the understanding that we're just RPing for a few weeks to get things moving while everyone finishes mechanics.
How would everyone feel if started everything off with a post, but with the understanding that we're just RPing for a few weeks to get things moving while everyone finishes mechanics.
I'm okay with that!! Also, sorry for getting lost along the way... I am ashamed...