Redemption: Tides of Numenera

Game Master Sebecloki


Short Summary:

Sources: Everything.

Abilities: 108 points, manipulate on a 1-1 basis.
Class/Level: 6 levels gestalt, 3 mythic tiers, 6 CR of templates. See further clarifications below.
Health: Custom Wounds Vigor system using max values for everything, double at first level, and then double the total.
Wealth/Equipment: Double maximum -- further notes below.
Feats: As if a fighter who was getting 1 feat a level on both sides of the gestalt. Feat tax rules -- further notes below.

Lots of clarifications:

Note: these rules also apply to 'buddies' for 'buddy classes' and cohorts. Use the base form of the creature from the Bestiary and construct it exactly like a PC.

In progress house-rules bible for 'Lokifinder' Lokifinder Core Rules Draft.

This document synthesizes a number of variant rules from 3.5 and Pathfinder. Here are some important points:

-For Wounds and Vigor, I am maintaining the higher Wound total from Pathfinder (i.e., Constitution x 2 instead of just the flat attribute value) instead of the flat ability score value from 3.5. Furthermore, Vigor is calculated as per Vitality in 3.5 -- adding the Constitution bonus.

-You calculate your Wounds and Vigor using either Constitution or Charisma, which ever is higher.

-Critical hits still multiply damage, and they do not go directly to wounds, as in the 3.5 version of this system. This contrasts with the Pathfinder variant, where critical hits do not multiply damage and go straight to wounds.

-Temporary and lethal/nonlethal categories of hit points are converted into types of Vigor, instead of dispensing with those categories. I am doing this to avoid conflicts with class abilities, feats, and spells that mention temporary hit points or lethal/nonlethal damage.

-For armor as DR, I am maintaining the 3.5 system of having an AC instead of the defense score from Pathfinder. However, I am also changing it so you still calculate AC as normal. In other words, the difference is just adding the DR value and the defense score for the opposed critical hit roll. In this way, the armor as DR system is just tacking on something to the existing combat system instead of messing with all the AC values.

-Here, the defense score is only used for an opposed check for critical hits. When an opponent hits you, they roll to confirm the critical hit, and you make an opposed check based on your defense score. If you succeed, you stop them, even if they confirm.

-For hero points, I basically ratcheted up the number you get based on the 3.5 action points system.

-Armor will provide temporary Vigor equal to its hit points and can transfer damage.

-This system has healing surges.

System: A mix of Pathfinder and DnD 3.5.

Style of Play: I'm a very high RP kind of dude that writes really long posts. I appreciate the same, but my main goal will to keep the story moving, so frequency and 'moving the story forward' is preferable to longer posts if you have to decide between the two.

I like to do sandbox stuff if players are sufficiently proactive. We could talk about the approach.

Allowed Content: You can use races, classes, feats, equipment, and spells, from any other 3,0 3.5, or Pathfinder sources.

Ability Scores: Start with straight 18s/108 points. Move the values up or down on a 1-1 basis -- i.e. you could have five 1's and one stat at 103, or whatever. No min or max.

Races: You can use races, classes, feats from any other 3,0 3.5, or Pathfinder sources.

Classes: You can use classes from any other 3,0 3.5, or Pathfinder sources.

Experience: You have 6 gestalt levels to spend for your starting character.

You then have two options: either 3 mythic tiers or 2 mythic tiers and two levels of a gestalted prestige class.

*You can also multi-class into another gestalt, so like 2/2 Fighter/Rouge and 3/3 Wizard/Cleric, or whatever. This would be a 3/3//2/2, etc. build.

*You can gestalt 2 archetypes for any class. In other words, you add 2 archetypes to any base class chassis, as opposed to replacing features.

*You can gestalt 2 mythic paths.

*Either 6 additional gestalt levels, or 1 mythic tier per +2 CR, but capped at mythic tier 4, because once you start getting into higher tiers, the game can very easily break down. So getting a bunch of 'free' mythic tiers all of a sudden as opposed to achieving them in game is probably a really bad idea. This is doubly especially true since we're using gestalt mythic paths.

Thus, if a PC In Numenera didn't want +6 worth of templates, they could get 6 gestalt levels, 3 mythic tiers(+6 and capped at 4) or a combination thereof.

However, in Dark Sun, where we're mythic tier 2 or 3, said PC could only gain 1 or 2 mythic tiers, and then gestalt levels to make up the difference.

Technically, yes, but many of your PCs already have templates, which would eat into that +6.

I believe all of your PCs in this game have a template(seems to be about +2), and I know Hamza and Amunet do in Dark Sun(possibly others as well).

Those PCs could only take +4 worth of templates, or 4 gestalt classes or 2 mythic tiers.

I'm likely going to take the Alacritous Creature template for Hamza, which is +2. And he already has Shadow Lord, meaning he would have +4 templates.

I would then probably take two levels in his main classes, Stalker and Harbinger.

Now, for those PCs who do not want any templates, they could in fact be level 12. However, I feel that's balanced when it comes to possibly having +6 templates.

If you took levels in a martial class(Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger, etc) you would get +6 to BAB, and likely +6 to Fort, and some really solid class features.

Conversely, let's say Arc, the Nightmare Dragon decided to live up to their name, and decided to take the Half-Fiend and Nightmare Lord(I believe is +2) templates. This would be +6 total in templates.

From their new templates, they would get:

Several energy resistances, DR and SR, Regen 5, several special attacks, a whole bunch of spell like abilities, +6 to Dex, +4 to Int, +6 to Cha and then +4 to 3 stats and +2 to the other 3, as desired. Plus some other random benefits.

Getting +10 to Dex or Cha is rather strong, depending on build, though most would like +5 to Initiative, Ref, and AC, at the least.

Now, if a PC took their 6 levels in a spell casting or manifesting class that they already had levels in, they could get up to 6th level spells/powers.

Which, might be too much, so you could cap classes at 5(so 10th level and 5th level spells), meaning players who didn't want any templates at all would need to take 1 mythic tier.

Normally, if you gain the same type of bonus(deflection, profane, competence, etc) to a stat, they don't stack and you take the better of the two(Exception being dodge bonuses to AC, and then some corner cases).

Ie, if you're a Paladin and you active Smite Evil, you gain a deflection bonus to AC = to your Cha mod. If you were to then cast(or have cast) Shield of Faith, which also grants a deflection bonus to AC, they wouldn't stack. If your Cha was say +4 and the bonus from SoF was the max of +5, you would only gain +5 to AC, not +9.

My friend's suggestion, and one I agree with, is to let these bonuses stack. In many cases(especially at our level) a lot of them aren't that big, thus they don't really impact things too much.

For example, Hamza's Cha is 18, which is +4. Even if his Cha was a lot higher, the max he'll get from Shield of Faith would be +5 if he had a caster level of 18. Not that huge of a boost.

Now, there's obviously some ways to jack up a stat, if you cast a lot of spells or whatever, but then you are in a bad way if you get hit by Dispel. Also, if you're going to cast a ton of spells to say get a really high AC, you're likely not casting other useful spells. Heck, depending on build, you might not even have many other spells left to cast.

The only reason I'm making this suggestion is based on the power level of the games this would apply to. With all the other crazy nonsense going on in these games, I don't honestly think allowing the same bonuses to stack will throw balance too out of whack.

Absolute worst case, we give it a shot, and if it seems the PCs are indeed way too powerful, you revoke the rule.

*Leveling up is by story/I don't calculate XP.

*I may also award non-leveling bonuses as a story incentive -- e.g., you get better at what you 'do'. So, if you have a spectacular combat, I might award a BAB bonus or an additional point to Strength or Dexterity. If you do something amazing with spells, I might award a bonus spell. If you accomplish a great task with a skill, I might award some skill ranks.

Wealth: See below.

Action Economy: For the Action Economy, you can use either the standard or the Unchained Action Economy for your actions.

I find the latter less of a headache than the normal system, but I'm leaving it as a parallel option so that builds that rely on swift actions aren't compromised. You can switch back and forth, you just have to declare each round which is operative.

Initiative: I do block initiative, as in the monsters go together, and the players go before and after the 'block' of the of the opponents. I find that makes things easier.

I use battle maps in google slides, and love making maps and handouts, etc. I will do a lot of that for this game.

Hitpoints/Health: We'll be using an alternative health system that I synthesized from both 3.5 and PF rules for, respectively, 'Wounds and Vitality' and 'Wounds and Vigor'.

*Take max for all rolls.
*Double Vigor at 1st level.

-For Wounds and Vigor, I am maintaining the higher Wound total from Pathfinder (i.e., Constitution x 2 instead of just the flat attribute value) instead of the flat ability score value from 3.5. Furthermore, Vigor is calculated as per Vitality in 3.5 -- adding the Constitution bonus.


Skills: Use the PF version of skills.

*Background Skills system from Pathfinder Unchained is in use.

Feats: This campaign offers its players considerably more feats than in a normal Pathfinder campaign

Sebecloki's Feats Homebrew Rules:

For feat progression, everyone gets the Pathfinder fighter progression of feats as if they were a fighter with 1 feat per level on each 'side' of the gestalt. So, you get 2 feats per level, plus 1 additional feat on each side of the gestalt for every level you would get a bonus feat as a Pathfinder fighter.

This means you get between 2 or 4 feats each level.

You can use PF or 3.5 versions of feats.

Feat progression for gestalt levels:

Level Feats
1 4
2 4
3 2
4 4
5 2
6 4

Total = 20

Feat progression for mythic tiers

Level Feats
1 2
1 2

3 1

Total = 4 or 5

Feat progression for prestige classes

Level Feats
1 2
1 2

Total = 4

*You can select up to 6 of these puppies. They count for feat slots.
*Elephant in the Room Feat Taxes in Pathfinder
*Everyone gets Signature Skill (General) for all skills they possess, as well as Combat Stamina (Combat) for free.

*For Horrifically Overpowers Feats, you can only have 1 per level/mythic tier, so either 8/2 or 6/3 at the current build.

Equipment: Double maximum wealth.

For Dark Sun(and I'm guessing Numenera as well, since it's about the same power level), we're about CR 10, based on the bench-pressing doc.

WBL for 10 is 62,000. Chopping down the Xmas tree suggests 1/5th, which I believe is 15,500. ABP says half, which would be 31,000(of the original 62k).

Unsure if you wanna add those reductions together or not.

However, as I said above, allowing us more WBL due our being exceptional PCs would not actually be a bad idea. Thanks to the two variants we're using, items(even weapons and armor) can be more unique and interesting. The fact that many our PCs come from luminous backgrounds makes this more of a possibility.

One suggestion, regardless of what we settle on for wealth, would be to allow each PC(in all games) to gain a Legendary Item that grows based on our tiers as if we took the universal path ability per tier we possess. Meaning, for Dark Sun, they would have 2 or 3 abilities, while for Numenera and Rise, they would have 1 ability. Should we gain more tiers, our item would grow with us.

I don't like the Xmas tree effect, so we'll use these two systems to get around that:

I. Chopping Down the Christmas Tree.

II. Automatic Bonus Progression as if level +2 (i.e., the 'low magic' setting).

I really don't like the Xmas tree style of equipage, or the 'significant six' economy of items. If you're going to have magical items, I want you to make them named items with fluff after this system from Ghostwalk:



An unusual aspect of the Ghostwalk campaign is that all magic weapons, no matter how minor, have a name. The process to craft magic weapons that was discovered millennia ago in this part of the world required the weapon to have a unique name to cement its powers into place. A weapon is often named for the person who is to bear it, or for some memorable event tied to its creation or the person who created it. For example, a +1 longsword made for a Tereppekian fighter named Bakara might be named Bakara’s Blade by its creator, and a +2 ghost bane heavy mace made by the church of Orcus might be known as Spirit Breaker. Magic weapons that have abilities added to them over time sometimes have their names expanded, but always keep some element of the original name. If Bakara’s Blade later had the flaming special ability added to it, it might be renamed Bakara’s Brightblade. If Spirit Breaker was later crafted with the torturous special ability, its name might be changed to Spiritwrack. A weapon’s name often reveals some of its history or features, even if its name has changed over time due to the addition of new properties. Spells such as analyze dweomer, identify, and legend lore automatically give a weapon’s current and previous names (in addition to all other effects of the spells), and a bard who knows the name of a magic weapon gains a +5 bonus on bardic knowledge checks made to reveal more information about that weapon.


We are using the Spell Points (PF) system from Pathfinder, except for the following aspects of theSpell Points (3.5) system:

-Where the 3.5 spellpoint value for a given level is higher, the greater value is applied.
-The Vitalizing variant rule, where casters can draw upon their life force to power spells, is also in use.

This is also an option for divine casters: Spontaneous Divine Casters


*You can have 5.
*You can use PF or 3.5 traits/drawbacks.