Okay missed that one, the question is - does it work with ranged touch spells? (And how is that effected by no more tac?)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Okay missed that one, the question is - does it work with ranged touch spells? (And how is that effected by no more tac?)
The enemy just need to be flat footed and the Rogue have the feat to do Sneak Attack with magic for it to work. No more TAC so it just your spell attack modifier against the enemy AC, no more DEX for spellcasters to hit their spells.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Spoiler #67:
Magical Trickster (Rogue Feat 4)
Whether you’re using magic items, wielding innate magic, or dabbling in spellcasting, you can sneak spells past your foes’ defenses as easily as any blade. When you succeed at a spell attack roll against a flat-footed foe’s AC and the spell deals damage, you can add your sneak attack damage to the damage roll. If your single spell leads to multiple separate damage rolls, apply your sneak attack damage only once per target.
I wonder if it will be tough to get ranged sneak attack like before
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I wonder if it will be tough to get ranged sneak attack like before
Having one Alchemist or Fighter in the party basically makes the enemy flat footed forever and you can always hide to make the enemy flat footed against your attacks too.
I wonder if it will be tough to get ranged sneak attack like beforeHaving one Alchemist or Fighter in the party basically makes the enemy flat footed forever and you can always hide to make the enemy flat footed against your attacks too.
How come ? I haven’t read through all the paizocon spoiler cards
I guess tanglefoot bags are the alchemist thing?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
That or some other bombs have similar effects. As for fighters, a lot of manouvers can be used for that, and especially freehand fighters are damn good at it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I wonder if it will be tough to get ranged sneak attack like beforeHaving one Alchemist or Fighter in the party basically makes the enemy flat footed forever and you can always hide to make the enemy flat footed against your attacks too.How come ? I haven’t read through all the paizocon spoiler cards
I guess tanglefoot bags are the alchemist thing?
Bootled Lighting caused the Flat Footed condition to any enemy that it his until the start of the next turn of the person that used it.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Bootled Lighting caused the Flat Footed condition to any enemy that it his until the start of the next turn of the person that used it.I wonder if it will be tough to get ranged sneak attack like beforeHaving one Alchemist or Fighter in the party basically makes the enemy flat footed forever and you can always hide to make the enemy flat footed against your attacks too.How come ? I haven’t read through all the paizocon spoiler cards
I guess tanglefoot bags are the alchemist thing?
Yeah, Bottled Lightning is a Rogue’s best friend right after that knife looking hungrily at some poor bandit’s kidney. Especially with access to Quick Draw, and if it remains cheep to craft a low level version, i imagine a Rogue carrying a couple regularly.
As far as Arcane Trickster itself, I strongly suspect it's simply been absorbed into Rogue as "things Rogues should be able to do anyway". I would bet we will get Rogue feats for ranged lockpicking and emergency sneak attacks, and a high level Rogue feat to sneak attack with AoE spells.
Well ranged lockpicking makes sense
but I don'T think AoE spells get sneak attack
and I have no idea what emergency sneak attacks are supposed to be
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Those are Arcane Trickster class features. Impromptu Sneak Attack let them make a sneak attack against a creature that didn't have any other reason to be vulnerable to one, and the Arcane Trickster capstone let them sneak attack with AoE spells.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I wouldn't say that that's an emergency sneak attack but that is useful
but I don't think it would be a good feature to add because it would be either a focus ability (which is not a rogue think iirc) or be basically a feint
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Out of all the Arcane Trickster class features I think that is the one least likely to return, yes.
I don't have a problem with it being a Focus spell, though - I think all classes should have access to Focus spells one way or another, and arcane trickster Rogues seem like the obvious candidate for a Rogue build that has Focus spells. The feat just needs to include the language "if you don't have a Focus pool, you gain a 1 point pool and can recharge it by [whatever]".
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Well I don't agree that every class need to get acess to focus spells but I think that in one of the Know Direction interviews Logan mentioned about a possible Racket that give acess to some magic and an Investigator racket in the future.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Tbh I would likely build a Rogue and then take Wizard Dedication and just be very judicious in picking out the spells I memorized. If you go Wizard w/ Rogue Dedication you're never going to get better than 1d6 Sneak Attack where as if you go Rogue with Wizard you can scale Sneak Attack to full and just limit your spell choices.
I guess really it just depends on what you want to focus on?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I don’t think a rogue will need impromptu sneak attack since there was the level 14 class feat that made enemies flat footed at the cost of one action.
I forgot about this; this effectively is Impromptu Sneak Attack under another name.
On the Focus spells thing - I don't think all classes should have native access to Focus spells, but I do think all classes except maybe Fighter should have a path that gets them Focus spells. I feel like "X, except with a little magic" should be a thing you can do without needing to multiclass - and more then that, I feel like every class should have its own "little magical things" it can do that are specific to that class.
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
I mean, if we are expanding the classes that get Focus options I'd actually love to see Fighter get something. Like a supernatural Blademaster kind of aesthetic or something. I was going to suggest an Eldritch Knight path but then remembered Fighters don't have paths.I don’t think a rogue will need impromptu sneak attack since there was the level 14 class feat that made enemies flat footed at the cost of one action.I forgot about this; this effectively is Impromptu Sneak Attack under another name.
On the Focus spells thing - I don't think all classes should have native access to Focus spells, but I do think all classes except maybe Fighter should have a path that gets them Focus spells. I feel like "X, except with a little magic" should be a thing you can do without needing to multiclass - and more then that, I feel like every class should have its own "little magical things" it can do that are specific to that class.
Tome. Of. Battle.
From what has been spoiled so far, has there been anything that could really support a magical trickster build. From what I have heard, I am pretty sure you could grab cantrips from just ancestries, but cantrips seem quite limiting. It might be as simple as taking the right multi-class dedication and grabbing the right spells and support, but I am not sure that will be enough. And maybe will have the right items or powers to make it work, but I don't think I have seen any so far.
Though, while I am skeptical about magical trickster at launch, I am hopeful for it in the future. After enough content, there should eventually be enough to make it work hopefully.
I have already been looking forward to kineticist, I think this could work quite nicely if you could go pew-pew-pew. Just throwing a metric ton of fiery bolts at people, very sneaky like.
What are you looking for exactly? Because as mentioned, there is a feat that lets you sneak attack with spells.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
From what has been spoiled so far, has there been anything that could really support a magical trickster build. From what I have heard, I am pretty sure you could grab cantrips from just ancestries, but cantrips seem quite limiting. It might be as simple as taking the right multi-class dedication and grabbing the right spells and support, but I am not sure that will be enough. And maybe will have the right items or powers to make it work, but I don't think I have seen any so far.
Multiclassing into a caster gets you up to 8th level spells; some Focus Spells that could match with it; magic items with ‘Trick Magic Item’ Skill Feat.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Not to mention "rogue that uses magic items to supplement their routine" is WAY more viable now, since wands and scrolls have non-crap DCs.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Not to mention "rogue that uses magic items to supplement their routine" is WAY more viable now, since wands and scrolls have non-crap DCs.
Now I am imagining Merisiel but instead of having hundreds of daggers it have hundreds of wands, unlimited wands works.
| 7 people marked this as a favorite. |
Not to mention "rogue that uses magic items to supplement their routine" is WAY more viable now, since wands and scrolls have non-crap DCs.Now I am imagining Merisiel but instead of having hundreds of daggers it have hundreds of wands, unlimited wands works.
If you click on the Pathfinder tag at the top, and after the page loads you scroll down to Age of Ashes, it shows Merisiel using a wand with a Dagger in her other hand.
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
If you click on the Pathfinder tag at the top, and after the page loads you scroll down to Age of Ashes, it shows Merisiel using a wand with a Dagger in her other hand.Not to mention "rogue that uses magic items to supplement their routine" is WAY more viable now, since wands and scrolls have non-crap DCs.Now I am imagining Merisiel but instead of having hundreds of daggers it have hundreds of wands, unlimited wands works.
Oh badass! I hadn't seen that before, thankies for pointing it out ^w^
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Also I wouldn't be surprised if there are d6/spell level Cantrips as well, it'd be surprising if the Divine attack Cantrip was as strong as Arcane ones (pleasantly surprising).
In playtest we had chill touch (d8), disrupt undead (d10), electric arc (d6, possible multiple targets), produce flame (d6), ray of frost (d8) and telekinetic projectile (d8)
They weren'T scaling as good as divine lance but iirc cantrips have been buffed since the playtest (I think acid splash for example went up from d4 to d6)
So, there is hope for good cantrips for magic sneak attakcs
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
There are also focus spells which can be renewed between fights. If I was building an arcane trickster and wanted to spam as many spells as possible, I'd probably spend my feats getting focus powers over spell slots. I'm sure some will be blasts.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would guess it is rather intended that the sneak attack is only supposed to hit the first target - but can'T be sure
If it'S actually multi-target there will be a lot of rogues with electric arc running around
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Spoiler #67:
Magical Trickster (Rogue Feat 4)
Whether you’re using magic items, wielding innate magic, or dabbling in spellcasting, you can sneak spells past your foes’ defenses as easily as any blade. When you succeed at a spell attack roll against a flat-footed foe’s AC and the spell deals damage, you can add your sneak attack damage to the damage roll. If your single spell leads to multiple separate damage rolls, apply your sneak attack damage only once per target.
The caveat is it has to be an attack roll, so no Sneak Attacking with fireball.
Is there anything we know about, or anything from the playtest, that can make spell attack roll/s against multiple targets?
electric arc
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The caveat is it has to be an attack roll, so no Sneak Attacking with fireball.Spoiler #67:
Magical Trickster (Rogue Feat 4)
Whether you’re using magic items, wielding innate magic, or dabbling in spellcasting, you can sneak spells past your foes’ defenses as easily as any blade. When you succeed at a spell attack roll against a flat-footed foe’s AC and the spell deals damage, you can add your sneak attack damage to the damage roll. If your single spell leads to multiple separate damage rolls, apply your sneak attack damage only once per target.
So, no to electric arc like Seisho is wishing for (It's a reflex save), but yes to Scorching Rays and any other machine gun style spells.
If your single spell leads to multiple separate damage rolls, apply your sneak attack damage only once per target.
This wording prevents you from applying sneak attack multiple times per target via
- ongoing damage from your spell- spells like PF1s Scorching Ray where you may fire multiple rays
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ah darn, I really misread that...now that'S emberassing
but Scorching ray would be a classical candidate for this, even though we don't have it in playstest
| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
If your single spell leads to multiple separate damage rolls, apply your sneak attack damage only once per target.This wording prevents you from applying sneak attack multiple times per target via
- ongoing damage from your spell
- spells like PF1s Scorching Ray where you may fire multiple rays
My point being I shoot 5 SEPARATE people with Scorching Ray, dealing SA to 5 different dudes, not one dude 5 times.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Instant Opening is cool but it kinda makes the Scoundrel Rogue pointless, I hope that this racket have some feats to fix that.