Well for those that have seen the movie can we all agree that ** spoiler omitted **
[Jar Jar]Meso agree! The Darth Jar Jar reveal was well done! Meso want more! Meso want Jar Jar for President![/Jar Jar]
That's not true...that's IMPOSSIBLE!What if we loved both movies? And are not invested enough in the Star Wars fandom to be too fussed by minor inconsistencies?we both know that is impossible. Star Wars fans are known for their over the top fanaticism. And this is me talking.
[Ooc]hugs plush y wing. Do we have those? Because if we don't, we need to start making them.[/ ooc]
Ew, did you just call me a Star Wars fan? Please take that insult back.
I'm not a Star Wars fan. I love Star Wars far too much to ever be a Star Wars fan. The fans are the ones who hate Star Wars the most and ruin it for the rest of us. They're like Firefly fans, if Firefly fans somehow actually hated the show but still would never stop watching or talking or whining about it, or fighting with each other over it.
It's true. You're just the Sith Lord equivalent of a Browncoat.
;p
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Uh oh! I think it is time to get the arena ready for the duel between Freehold DM and DeathQuaker.
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Uh oh! I think it is time to get the arena ready for the duel between Freehold DM and DeathQuaker.
No good can come of this. Except ticket sales, concessions, movie rights...alas, poor Freehold, I knew him well Horatio.... ;)
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Place your bets! Place your bets! We have 25 to one odds, against Freehold DM!
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*does her breathing exercises, flexes, and gets out the rubber chicken*
Place your bets! Place your bets! We have 25 to one odds, against Freehold DM!
** spoiler omitted **
spock eyebrow
Sabotages Freehold's rubber chicken
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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While I have lots I didn't like about the movie, and a few things I did like about it, for the most part I was really bored for most of it. Not sure if that's better or worse than viscerally hating Ep 8.
I did, however, enjoy my box of Junior Mints. Pretty sad for a lifelong Star Wars fan to have that be the best part of my movie viewing experience.
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It's true. You're just the Sith Lord equivalent of a Browncoat.That's not true...that's IMPOSSIBLE!What if we loved both movies? And are not invested enough in the Star Wars fandom to be too fussed by minor inconsistencies?we both know that is impossible. Star Wars fans are known for their over the top fanaticism. And this is me talking.
Ew, did you just call me a Star Wars fan? Please take that insult back.
I'm not a Star Wars fan. I love Star Wars far too much to ever be a Star Wars fan. The fans are the ones who hate Star Wars the most and ruin it for the rest of us. They're like Firefly fans, if Firefly fans somehow actually hated the show but still would never stop watching or talking or whining about it, or fighting with each other over it.
That's a Purple Belly.
The one thing sort of concerning is how many folks are saying its convoluted. "Its like 3 movies in one!" JJ is known for cramming 3 movies worth of action into a single flick at the expense of exposition and plot. It will be interesting to see how he decides to reckon the past two films.
Actually, my biggest problem with Rise of Skywalker is that it feels like two movies crammed into one. :(
The fanservice at least makes it a good experience for folks who dont care much about the nuances of film making.
You and I have very different understandings of Fanservice
I was always a Star Trek guy, personally.
I've noticed that Star Trek fans seem to be a related species to the Star Wars fan. They both share many of the same properties. It is a struggle to determine which of them is less poisonous.
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I really liked the movie. I didn’t love it, but I definitely liked it.
I also think, given the cards JJ had dealt to him (Carie Fisher’s death, many of the odd plot decisions in Last Jedi, a hopelessly divided and toxic fanbase, etc.) he did the best he could and, all things considered, he did a pretty darn good job.
I think the biggest issue with these movies by far was the decision by Lucasfilm (read: Kathleen Kennedy) to let each director kind of do what they wanted without any overarching plot outline for the trilogy - that was pretty ridiculous and irresponsible of her to do with such a beloved franchise. The fact that this trilogy had any overarching plot at all was pretty much in spite of Kennedy (and, and my opinion, thanks in large part to JJ)
That's not true...that's IMPOSSIBLE!What if we loved both movies? And are not invested enough in the Star Wars fandom to be too fussed by minor inconsistencies?we both know that is impossible. Star Wars fans are known for their over the top fanaticism. And this is me talking.
[Ooc]hugs plush y wing. Do we have those? Because if we don't, we need to start making them.[/ ooc]
Ew, did you just call me a Star Wars fan? Please take that insult back.
I'm not a Star Wars fan. I love Star Wars far too much to ever be a Star Wars fan. The fans are the ones who hate Star Wars the most and ruin it for the rest of us. They're like Firefly fans, if Firefly fans somehow actually hated the show but still would never stop watching or talking or whining about it, or fighting with each other over it.
It's true. You're just the Sith Lord equivalent of a Browncoat.
;p
I've noticed that Star Trek fans seem to be a related species to the Star Wars fan. They both share many of the same properties. It is a struggle to determine which of them is less poisonous.Hence my use of the word 'guy' instead of fan, or even worse, Trekkie.
Or ... "Trekker" or any of a number of fine gradations.
But we all know that you are already toxic for being TriOmegaZero. :p
I really liked the movie. I didn’t love it, but I definitely liked it.
I also think, given the cards JJ had dealt to him (Carie Fisher’s death, many of the odd plot decisions in Last Jedi, a hopelessly divided and toxic fanbase, etc.) he did the best he could and, all things considered, he did a pretty darn good job.
You could feel the shock and saddened frustration when she passed in the movie. It reminded me very much of in Halo 3 if the Master Chief is killed during the game where other marines are there to witness, one of them will shout out, "Well, NOW what(do we do)?!?!?"
There was very much the sense that this was a fresh and new thing in the movie, i.e. it had JUST happened in real life and NOONE knew how to react.
I think the biggest issue with these movies by far was the decision by Lucasfilm (read: Kathleen Kennedy) to let each director kind of do what they wanted without any overarching plot outline for the trilogy - that was pretty ridiculous and irresponsible of her to do with such a beloved franchise. The fact that this trilogy had any overarching plot at all was pretty much in spite of Kennedy (and, and my opinion, thanks in large part to JJ)
fair. But there was a lot of animosity towards the idea of letting one person do all three movies, as the prequels were not exactly stellar films despite coming from one mind.
fair. But there was a lot of animosity towards the idea of letting one person do all three movies, as the prequels were not exactly stellar films despite coming from one mind.
Which would be why you should have someone overseeing all three movies making sure the kids are working together to build the sandcastle.
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You and I have very different understandings of Fanservice
Still rather have Thrawn.
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I just saw this and felt like venting :-)
I must admit that I actually enjoyed the movie. But that was a combination of my having gotten my expectations down VERY low and my being able to laugh at some of the worst bits. While I enjoyed it, it was a pretty terrible movie.
Like a huge number of people I thought that it was 2 movies in one, that there were huge gaping plot holes, that much of what transpired was pointless, too many new characters were introduced, and that there was very little emotional engagement since, uh,
Disney so you just KNEW that all the sacrifices would be reversed.
But I think what stands out the most for me is that this trilogy pretty much leaves the galaxy at EXACTLY the same point as it was at the end of "Return of the Jedi". The big bad emperor was killed, there is still a huge fleet of First Order baddies out there, there is absolutely no galaxy wide government, the galaxy has exactly ONE Jedi in it, a Jedi who thoroughly flirted with the Dark Side (which, apparently, means that forever will it dominate their destiny:-)) and there is one other significant Force Sensitive PC.
In my ideal world, the Prequel Trilogy would never have been made and THIS trilogy would have been all about the attempt to set up a functioning, decent galaxy wide government. One that decided slavery (the Droids are very definitely sentient slaves) wasn't acceptable.
Yeah, I know, that wouldn't have made bazillions of dollars in merchandising fees. But at least the trilogy would have gone somewhere and not just so thoroughly retread pretty much EXACTLY the same ground as the original trilogy
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Wait, so if...
and we know from an earlier movie that
...then does that mean balance has at last been brought to the Force?
/jk
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Wait, so if...
** spoiler omitted **
and we know from an earlier movie that ** spoiler omitted **
...then does that mean balance has at last been brought to the Force?
/jk
I've always thought that the stupidest thing that the Jedi EVER did (and the list of really stupid things is pretty long) was to try to bring balance to the force :-).
The "Good" Jedi had been in power for a 1,000 generations and didn't realize that "balance" is a BAD idea when your side is on top? :-) :-) :-).
Wait, so if...
** spoiler omitted **
and we know from an earlier movie that ** spoiler omitted **
...then does that mean balance has at last been brought to the Force?
/jk
I've always thought that the stupidest thing that the Jedi EVER did (and the list of really stupid things is pretty long) was to try to bring balance to the force :-).
The "Good" Jedi had been in power for a 1,000 generations and didn't realize that "balance" is a BAD idea when your side is on top? :-) :-) :-).
Completely agreed, even when you try to go with Lucas's characterization of the Light side of the Force as what the Force in balance should look like. For a 1,000 generations, the Jedi were on top and the galaxy writ large had it good. In such a situation, and under the interpretation that Light equals balanced, you simply wouldn't speak of a prophecy about one who would bring balance to the Force the way they do. They speak of it as something positive, as something that, if true, would improve things. By its very nature, bringing balance to the Force the way the Jedi Council speaks of it almost demands that things go extremely more askew than they were.
I... think this tops the Anakin-Padme romance in terms of bad writing.
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My nephew saw this new movie the other day, and he said it was the best Star Wars movie ever, even better than Empire Strikes Back. Even though I haven't seen the new movie yet, I told him what he was saying is impossible. Of course, he's only almost a teenager, so that explains why he doesn't know what he's talking about.
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I... think this tops the Anakin-Padme romance in terms of bad writing.
I cannot accept this proposition.
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Lasers went PEW PEW! Lightsabers went WOM WOM! I saw Princess Leia! All the ships I don't know the name of flew around and went ZOOM! There was lots of good heroic stuff! I liked it. And I felt like it worked with some good built in parallels to prior films while also doing its own thing. And I didn't even hate Poe for once!
I definitely have a few really specific nitpicks and had a few "what the--?" moments, none of which bother me enough at the moment to bring them up. Some of the pacing and editing felt off--it was hard to get into at first, oddly. A lot of the plot twists and turns I predicted (but not all of them!). And I'm disappointed that Rose had very little to do. But apart from these things, by the end I was clapping and cheering along with everyone else, and I liked the denouement a lot. Personally, and apparently contrary to popular opinion, I feel like the three parts of the trilogy fit together very well and it actually makes TLJ even better (and I already liked it) in retrospective as a lot of pieces fell into place for me as to how certain things were built up or established. Maybe that's just me, and I am okay with that.
So the answer to my own question upthread: if you loved 7 and 8, you will remain quite pleased with this trilogy.
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All I have to say is: I hope this is the last Star Wars movie for a long while, at least from those that had a hand doing this movie.
I'm much, MUCH more interested with the Mandalorian and perhaps other TV shows set in that universe. Movies have had their time. This last one was just a non-stop action 'splosion fest, and reveals such as those we saw in this movie would have been handled best via a TV show.
Right now the way this movie was delivered to us was like Michael Bay style force feeding. We needed a slow I.V. drip instead...
But there was a lot of animosity towards the idea of letting one erson do all three movies, as the prequels were not exactly stellar films despite coming from one mind.
Disney would probably have been fine with Abrams doing all 3, but they wanted the movies to come out at 2-year intervals which would have been impossible with the same person working on all 3 (the development time for a modern AAA tentpole movie is 3 years, so you need to overlap development and so need different teams involved).
All I have to say is: I hope this is the last Star Wars movie for a long while, at least from those that had a hand doing this movie.
The next film is officially due for release in December 2022, but that was supposed to be the Benioff/Weis movie. Since Benioff and Weis walked on the project, it's unclear what the plan moving forwards is going to be. I suspect we'll get a clearer idea of that when the full box office is in for Skywalker (which at the moment seems to be aiming at doing around Rogue One numbers, pretty good but definitely under-performing compared to Eps 7 and 8 and coming in at under half of Force Awakens' total).
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The next film is officially due for release in December 2022, but that was supposed to be the Benioff/Weis movie. Since Benioff and Weis walked on the project, it's unclear what the plan moving forwards is going to be
Since when do they stop because of lack of a plan?
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There is rumbling that Kathleen Kennedy is on her way out as head of Lucasfilm and that whoever replaces her will be more of a Kevin Feige type who WILL have more of a plan.
Some rumors are that it might be none other than John Favreau ...
I'd be excited if those rumors are true. Favreau has proven he can do great Star Wars. Thinking of what he would do with a full movie budget is exciting.
There is rumbling that Kathleen Kennedy is on her way out as head of Lucasfilm and that whoever replaces her will be more of a Kevin Feige type who WILL have more of a plan.
Some rumors are that it might be none other than John Favreau ..
One pair of geeks walking off of a starwars movie might just be the geeks (Not likely i mean, who would give that up?), but they've shooed out HOW many people over creative differences?
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Well, that was Kathleen Kennedy. She’s the head of Lucasfilm and has been the one behind those decisions. All of the complaints that these Disney-era Star Wars films did not have an over-arching plan are, for better or worse, due to Kennedy’s leadership.
This is why the prospect of having a more Feige like person, whether Favreau or someone else, is so exciting.
Also, my understanding was that Benioff and Weis didn’t so much ‘walk off’ the project - they were essentially removed from it.
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I really wonder about the future of Star Wars. I know they want to be able to milk the franchise as much as they can. But I wonder how many times they can tell the same story--there are twists and turns, but Star Wars more or less relies upon a standard heroic saga, a chosen one and friends vs the evil empire, Jedi vs Sith yadda yadda. I don't know if it's possible to "Marvelize" Star Wars--Marvel can make a bunch of very different movies that outside of their obvious superhero theme, can have a different feel, e.g., Ant Man is a heist film, Winter Soldier is a political thriller, Captain Marvel is Top Gun in Space, etc. People seem to expect a certain formula when it comes to Star Wars, and when it deviates (e.g., Solo) people don't show up... and yet people also seem to be getting tired of the formula. Further, Star Wars has an increasingly fractured fanbase which makes it a harder market to target, and while Rogue One as a prequel did well, Solo did not, so I don't know if filling in more past history will work well. (An Old Republic movie could be cool, but could also be more of same.)
I know this isn't going to happen, but it would be nice if they just ended it on a relative high with episode 9 and leave it be. (I also think that this trilogy is going to be remembered more and more fondly as time goes on. Reactions to the three movies have been very similar to the reactions-at-the-time to the original trilogy---people were excited about the first, the second was incredibly divisive and angered a lot of fans, the third people were like "oh that's nice, I guess" ... but all got elevated later as Best Ever (with the second later declared to be the best of the three, as at least critics are now doing with TLJ). In fairness, the prequel trilogies also made the originals look way shinier---but I don't want something lackluster following these to be what it takes to make the fandom in general look upon these more fondly.
Certainly if John Favreau or someone like him were to take the helm he'd have a much better chance than most to do something good with the franchise, but I have to wonder if that's too little, too late.
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I think Rian jumped the gun on the future of Star Wars where the force is in everyone and not just monopolized by the skywalkers. I think this was out of place in the saga series and would have made a great trilogy on its own.
Rogue One was a prequel, but it wasnt a space opera but a gritty war film set in SW universe. Different type of film and story and was quite successful. Solo didnt tank because it wasnt a saga film, but it came on the heels of one of the least regarded and divisive films. On top of that, had an entire reshoot and director swap midway through. I believe thinking fans dont want non saga SW stories is an oversimplification of Solo's problems.
Id say this new trilogy will be looked at as fairly good, probably ranked below the OT, but above the prequels. The OT gets an unfair advantage of not coming out in the internet era so it doesnt get the tactical technical dissection the newer films do. If Empire was divisive, I dont recall that it was, those folks had no way to band together and form such a popular opinion as they do today. For better or worse. YMMV
I think Rian jumped the gun on the future of Star Wars where the force is in everyone and not just monopolized by the skywalkers. I think this was out of place in the saga series and would have made a great trilogy on its own.
Rogue One was a prequel, but it wasnt a space opera but a gritty war film set in SW universe. Different type of film and story and was quite successful. Solo didnt tank because it wasnt a saga film, but it came on the heels of one of the least regarded and divisive films.
I disagree. I didn't see anyone act like they were interested in Solo even when it was announced (before TLJ came out), and I believe the result would have been the same if it had came out before TLJ. There was no fan interest in or hype for it.
Also (and I am arguing against myself here), Solo was screwed because it came out too close to a few other really big movies, including big geeky moves. The Incredibles 2, Deadpool 2, and I think some other big Marvel thing (Spider-Man, maybe?), among other films of different genres that were drawing away audiences. (I never saw it mainly because it just wasn't high enough priority for me compared to some of those other movies.)
On top of that, had an entire reshoot and director swap midway through.
That too.
I believe thinking fans dont want non saga SW stories is an oversimplification of Solo's problems.
That's fair, but I am just not seeing the energy pushing for films like it. Are you?
The OT gets an unfair advantage of not coming out in the internet era so it doesnt get the tactical technical dissection the newer films do. If Empire was divisive, I dont recall that it was, those folks had no way to band together and form such a popular opinion as they do today. For better or worse. YMMV
My understanding is Fanzines and fanclub newsletters were riddled with arguing over it. It's not the same as now with the internet, sure, but sci-fi fandom and the zeal that comes with it was not invented by the internet either. (While I wasn't part of the Star Wars fandom, I was a huge Doctor Who fan in the 80s and a member of the Doctor Who Fanclub of America, and trust me, fans had their way of sharing their opinions, essays, and fics with each other via newsletter and convention.) The real difference is that mainstream media did not pay attention to fan reactions via these outlets the way it now does to Twitter and Reddit, so the grievances end up being repeated and aired much more widely. As much as I like to be seen as a fan, I think perhaps it would be better if the MSM ignored all the geekery like they used to, but geeks use the Internet and so articles about the controversy earn adclick revenue.
Further, Star Wars has an increasingly fractured fanbase which makes it a harder market to target,
They've got nothing on Trek fandom.
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No argument there.
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Further, Star Wars has an increasingly fractured fanbase which makes it a harder market to target,They've got nothing on Trek fandom.
To be fair transport via space fungus was bad enough to deserve trekkies.
Also, my understanding was that Benioff and Weis didn’t so much ‘walk off’ the project - they were essentially removed from it.
Walked or catapulted, if you've been in 15 dysfunctional relationships there's only one common denominator...
Certainly if John Favreau or someone like him were to take the helm he'd have a much better chance than most to do something good with the franchise, but I have to wonder if that's too little, too late.
Maybe not. The Terminator franchise kept rolling through divisive movies before they finally said "The last three movies never happened, so here's the sequel to T2". The biggest issue Favreau or whoever would face is that, were they to eventually do an "Episodes 7, 8, & 9, but for real this time", they don't have Carrie Fisher at all and might not have any other OT actors available.
Certainly if John Favreau or someone like him were to take the helm he'd have a much better chance than most to do something good with the franchise, but I have to wonder if that's too little, too late.Maybe not. The Terminator franchise kept rolling through divisive movies before they finally said "The last three movies never happened, so here's the sequel to T2". The biggest issue Favreau or whoever would face is that, were they to eventually do an "Episodes 7, 8, & 9, but for real this time", they don't have Carrie Fisher at all and might not have any other OT actors available.
Wait 15 years till you can put bob in a virtual " Mark hammil at any age you want" suit and try again?
Certainly if John Favreau or someone like him were to take the helm he'd have a much better chance than most to do something good with the franchise, but I have to wonder if that's too little, too late.Maybe not. The Terminator franchise kept rolling through divisive movies before they finally said "The last three movies never happened, so here's the sequel to T2". The biggest issue Favreau or whoever would face is that, were they to eventually do an "Episodes 7, 8, & 9, but for real this time", they don't have Carrie Fisher at all and might not have any other OT actors available.
I don't think Disney would allow eps 7-9 to be rebooted, they have too much invested in it as it is--and a lot of young fans, who have none of the baggage or concerns the old coots who are grumpy about the current trilogy have, to piss off by doing that. Anything coming forward is going to be new stuff. If any part of the Saga is going to be rebooted, IMO it would be a good several years from now and start from the getgo with a new "New Hope."
To be fair transport via space fungus was bad enough to deserve trekkies.Further, Star Wars has an increasingly fractured fanbase which makes it a harder market to target,They've got nothing on Trek fandom.
Much as I "love" Discovery, I happen to be a "trekkie."
Much as I "love" Discovery, I happen to be a "trekkie."To be fair transport via space fungus was bad enough to deserve trekkies.Further, Star Wars has an increasingly fractured fanbase which makes it a harder market to target,They've got nothing on Trek fandom.
To this day, I still don't get what the distinction between "Trekkie" and "Trekker" even is.
To this day, I still don't get what the distinction between "Trekkie" and "Trekker" even is.Much as I "love" Discovery, I happen to be a "trekkie."To be fair transport via space fungus was bad enough to deserve trekkies.Further, Star Wars has an increasingly fractured fanbase which makes it a harder market to target,They've got nothing on Trek fandom.
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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To this day, I still don't get what the distinction between "Trekkie" and "Trekker" even is.Much as I "love" Discovery, I happen to be a "trekkie."To be fair transport via space fungus was bad enough to deserve trekkies.Further, Star Wars has an increasingly fractured fanbase which makes it a harder market to target,They've got nothing on Trek fandom.
As a life long Star Trek fan, who's been to multiple conventions, and attended years of Trek fan club meetings, etc, I've never met anyone who called themselves a Trekker. I'm convinced it's a media created, made up distinction.