Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker


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review snippets are out

Some of its confirming the... less than good rumors that have been lurking around reddit lately.

Sovereign Court

The one thing sort of concerning is how many folks are saying its convoluted. "Its like 3 movies in one!" JJ is known for cramming 3 movies worth of action into a single flick at the expense of exposition and plot. It will be interesting to see how he decides to reckon the past two films.

Scarab Sages

Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Saw a trailer over the weekend that extended the part of "Darth Rey" by about a second, and it got me thinking.
I wonder if that is a vision similar to what Luke saw in the cave on Dagobah?


A request:
(before it all begins in earnest)

The movie is not released yet (although a few may get to see it before then), so please refrain from posting spoilers (oblique or otherwise) until then.
After that, please remember to use the spoiler tags - at least until after opening weekend.
(I hope this is reasonable enough.)

Please & thank you.

--C.

Scarab Sages

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Paizo Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Make that second weekend, just to be safe.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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It may also be a good idea to create a separate, spoilers-only (in the title) thread like we did for Endgame.


I think we usually do new years isn't it?


Charles Scholz wrote:

Saw a trailer over the weekend that extended the part of "Darth Rey" by about a second, and it got me thinking.

I wonder if that is a vision similar to what Luke saw in the cave on Dagobah?

Well, yeah. Making Rey evil would be bluntly subversive and it's not in the cards.


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Quark Blast wrote:
Charles Scholz wrote:

Saw a trailer over the weekend that extended the part of "Darth Rey" by about a second, and it got me thinking.

I wonder if that is a vision similar to what Luke saw in the cave on Dagobah?
Well, yeah. Making Rey evil would be bluntly subversive and it's not in the cards.

Maybe if game of thrones hadn't gone there first....


Rotten tomatoes review 58%. Ouch.

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker suffers from a frustrating lack of imagination, but concludes this beloved saga with fan-focused devotion.

None of these reviews make any sense, using satisfied and devotion in the same sentence as lack of imagination and uninspired.

Scarab Sages

How all over the map the pro (read: usually rave) reviews are, the movie sounds like an entertaining mess. I'll still throw my 12 dollars at it, as I have everything since TPM except Solo.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Glancing over a few reviews, a lot of the negative stuff is the "wheh I'm a movie critic and I can't understand what's happening in an action movie when things move fast" and/or "it's sci-fi and it's icky and only fans will understand! I feel left out!!"

Well it is the 9th episode in a series that is nearly as old as I am. Duh.

The elements of praise are that Daisy Ridley is good, it's fun, there's a lot of twists, and things are wrapped up well. I can absolutely work with that.

ETA: In fairness, I should note this was "at a glance" and there may have been critics with more substantive concerns (and praise). Just looked to me overall like the typical sort of reviews geeky movies get.

Silver Crusade

Same.

Another bunch of complaints were "lack of character development".

Um, they had two other movies for that. The finale is, ya'know, the finale. The finisher.

Sovereign Court

Ive heard a number of times "rudely erases all Rian Johnsons bold risks" which im not sure exactly what that means. Guess I'll have to see for myself.

Scarab Sages

Most of the bad reviews I see are complaining about the tons of exposition in the first half of the film, and that it's just jammed packed with too much stuff.

Since there's a chance neither of those things will bother me, I might actually watch this when it comes to Disney+. Plus, Lando kicks ass.


Just saw it and I was pleasantly surprised. Rey finally got some training, and an obstacle to overcome/something she had to learn how to do (however rushed it was) The scenes looked amazing.
There were more than a few problems, most of which I think would have been solved if this had been two movies.
If you liked the force awakens but hated the last jedi you might like this one.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

What if we loved both movies? And are not invested enough in the Star Wars fandom to be too fussed by minor inconsistencies?


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Then you'll probably enjoy it! I liked both the other sequel movies quite a bit, and I really enjoyed this one as well!


The film was good, but easily the weakest of the new three.

The biggest problem was fanservice. So much fanservice. An incredible amount of fanservice. So much fanservice that a lot of it didn't even make sense but was just there to try to appeal to everyone's nostalgia. And several scenes where Abrams literally just throws the previous movie under a bus and rails on it, which was petty.

The Rey/Kylo Ren stuff saves the film (and the entire trilogy). Without that relationship, the film would have been an utter disaster.


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Werthead wrote:

And several scenes where Abrams literally just throws the previous movie under a bus and rails on it, which was petty.

It wasn't petty. It was necessary. There wasn't anything LEFT at the end of the last jedi to work with.

Fan service itself isn't a problem when it's well done. But because there wasn't a coherent vision for the trilogy that was carried out from the get go. Zig Zagging was bound to happen This movie had to build to a finale and be the finale, which is why it felt rushed/ like 2 movies.

incredibly minor spoiler:
The Holdo manuever had to go under the bus with being "one in a million it would work" so it couldn't put the entire concept of star wars giant fleet battles under a bus. They can't both exist. Every time there's a giant fleet fight that WOULD be the optimal solution

Sovereign Court

JJ makes films that are beautiful, but move at break neck speed. You have no time to take in what is happening (which rarely makes any sense anyway). When the credits roll you love it, by the time the car ride home is over, you hate it.

The fanservice at least makes it a good experience for folks who dont care much about the nuances of film making.

Liberty's Edge

Saw it again today. I still really like it but I have a couple of questions.

Spoiler:
1.The first chase with the Falcon and the TIE fighters. The Falcon "lightspeed skips" to lose them. The TIEs are able to follow them as they lightspeed skip. How can they go to lightspeed? I thought all TIEs did'nt have a hyperdrive so they can't go to lightspeed. I assume unique TIEs like Klyo's would have it. But I'm talking the normal stock ones. Now that I think about it, how was Kylo able to travel to Palpatine's planet at the end with a stock TIE from the ruined Death Star? I know that was an OT TIE that did'nt have a hyperdrive.

Spoiler:
How did Rey have Luke's old lightsaber? I thought it was pulled apart in Last Jedi.


Ccape cod:
Lightspeed skipping is from solo I think. I'd assume Ties have been upgraded since TOS , and can either follow the falcon or even lightspeed at all by getting stuck in the falcons wake?

Kylo used the wayfinder to get to the planet once. After that he doesn't need it to get back he has the coordinates.

Light saber. Force duct tape. Light side. Dark side. Binds things together.

Liberty's Edge

BigNorseWolf:

Spoiler:
I understand at that point Kylo knew where the planet was. I'm saying an OT TIE fighter did'nt have a hyperdrive, so it could not have gone into hyperspace/ lightspeed to get to planet in normal travel time, if at all without running out of fuel/ power.

Scarab Sages

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Maybe someone dug up some

Spoiler:
Hyperdrive Rings

Liberty's Edge

Saw the movie tonight.
Loved it!


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I saw the movie on Thursday afternoon (C.E.T.), and enjoyed it. Were there the occasional problematic issues? Yes. But I still enjoyed watching it, and will be seeing it again tomorrow/this coming Sunday.

Posters on certain forums complained quite a bit about the new movie. In some cases, it seems as if those viewers don't realise that certain things were already being "set up" in the first two movies. One has to take RoS as the third part of a connected trilogy, not as a stand-alone movie.

For better or worse, there apparently were differences of opinion/approach between J.J. Abrams (ep. 7 + 9) and R. Johnson (ep. 8). So the three movies don't connect as well as they should have. The pace is very fast in the first part of RoS, as it has a lot of ground to cover and a lot of information to drop on the viewer. Maybe if ep. 8 had been a slightly different movie, then the transition would have been easier.

Novels and other media will probably be used to fill in the gaps/"plot holes". Hopefully something that's generally available, as opposed to being gated content on the Disney+ channel.

Non-spoiler spoilers: Rey has a good reason for being strong in the Force, and the BBEG gets the ultimate "F-U" at the very end. :)


CapeCodRPGer wrote:

BigNorseWolf:

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
I figured it was a new tie fighter that escorted him to the planet. He walked off the dock told the storm trooper to get out and took his ship.
Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Spoilerific thoughts below:

Spoiler:

My thoughts about this movie are less than glowing, if you've come out of the movie and are still bathing in the afterglow, please close this spoiler and move on. My intention isn't to yuck anyone's yum. There was more than enough people trying to spit vitriol at TLJ fans and that is not my bag.

Seriously, if you enjoyed the movie that's cool what comes below is not inviting an argument it's just my own feelings and opinions you can disagree but I'm not looking to argue.

Last chance...

This movie was cowardly. I followed the action fine, I understood it completely fine. This movie was just a hodgepodge of reactions to angry youtubers.

But to do it, it had to not only undo the last movie:
(Poe already learned the leadership lesson last movie, why rehash it?)
(Finn learned to be a true believer saving what he loves, and then attempts another suicide mission in this one)
(They literally kept Rose almost entirely out of the movie)
(They kept the long distance connection between Rey and Kylo even though Rey closed the door on it)
(Worst of all they made Rey a Palpatine. They undid the most important message of The Last Jedi: The Force Belongs to Everyone! - No the force belongs to people with special blood)

They also undid Vader's one act of redemption in Return of the Jedi, by bringing the Emperor back it completely nullifies that whole thing.

Remember how Finn had a thing he wanted to say to Rey, and then it was brought up again two more times, and then that plot thread didn't go anywhere?
Oof.

Remember how the last movie was about the Rebellion needing to spark the fire that would burn down the first order? And in this movie we didn't see any of that? They just sent Lando off screen so the audience would get a big shot of all the ships that came to the rescue that didn't in TLJ. Why? Why did they come? They didn't show any of it.

Remember Chewbacca dying because Rey unleashes her hate against Kylo Ren and suddenly there was real stakes in the Jedi teachings and why they didn't want people reacting in fear/anger and hate? Then turns out: Don't worry everybody Chewbacca was fine the whole time, he was in a previously not shown shuttle.

For all the pissing and moaning about Rian Johnson, he at least respected the audience and didn't cheat. Luke being a projection in the final battle was well telegraphed. Every reveal was set up.

JJ loves reveals but doesn't want to put in the work to earn the payoff.

Why were there so many new characters introduced in this movie? To what end? Why didn't they use Rose to do more? Or Maz?

Most of this movie was spent running fast across a screen yelling expository dialogue. Rey and Kylo received arcs, of a kind. But this movie worked so hard to twist itself into a pretzel to redeem Kylo just so he could literally do what Vader already did. It even completely ignored what he learned in Episode VIII - "Let the past die, kill it if you have to".

This movie should have been about Kylo Ren using the First Order and the Knights of Ren trying to destroy the Sith and the Jedi once and for all, and Rey defending what was still redeemable in the Jedi and the Republic. You could even have Palpatine back, imagine if Hux betrayed Kylo to the Emperor. Man that would have been so fun.

There were some good joyous, and mostly fan-servicey moments. C3P0 was genuinely funny, and moving at times. Everything with Leia was really well done and moving, and they did a lot with what they had. The memory of Han was great. Chewbacca's reaction to Leia's death. Rey claiming the name Skywalker with the blessing of Luke and Leia (even though it would have been much more powerful for Rey No-One from Nowhere).

I genuinely groaned when the Palpatine reveal happened. They rehashed Dark Empire, and Dark Empire was really garbage (remember Luuke?)

I am tired, tired that the poison and vitriol regarding TLJ seeped into the story here, and that JJ Abrams just doesn't respect the audience enough to give us one last new Star Was story. Instead retreading Return of the Jedi to placate audiences with familiar lights and noise.

If you loved the movie, and you read this and it started raising a lot of questions with you, and it changes your opinion, I'm sorry.

The thing about fridge logic, is that it's at least supposed to last until you wake up to get some milk out of the fridge late at night, and then remember the movie and go: "wait, that didn't make sense". I didn't even get out of the credits.

I almost walked out of this movie at least twice, I stuck around because it was my last chance to watch a Skywalker Saga movie for the first time.

Liberty's Edge

BigNorseWolf wrote:
CapeCodRPGer wrote:

BigNorseWolf:

** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
When you see him walking away from the TIE, its grey like the OT ones, so I thought He managed to find one in the ruins of the old Death Star.
Liberty's Edge

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DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:

Spoilerific thoughts below:

** spoiler omitted **...

Going out on a limb here ... you are in the “really liked what Rian Johnson did in Last Jedi” camp?

Dark Archive

SPOILERS

-
-
-

Opening Crawl

EPISODE IX THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

The dead speak! The galaxy has heard a mysterious broadcast, a threat of REVENGE in the sinister voice of the late EMPEROR PALPATINE .

GENERAL LEIA ORGANA dispatches secret agents to gather intelligence, while REY, the last hope of the Jedi, trains for battle against the diabolical FIRST ORDER.

Meanwhile, Supreme Leader KYLO REN rages in search of the phantom Emperor, determined to destroy any threat to his power ...

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

Hey folks, maybe now is a good time for that separate Spoiler thread?

Scarab Sages

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Bellona wrote:


For better or worse, there apparently were differences of opinion/approach between J.J. Abrams (ep. 7 + 9) and R. Johnson (ep. 8). So the three movies don't connect as well as they should have.

This, for me, was one of the big reasons behind my somewhat recent indifference to new Star Wars movies. I haven't seen one of the movies in theaters since The Force Awakens (which I liked well enough). Of course, I was later bummed I hadn't seen Rogue One in the theater, since it's the best SW movie since Empire Strikes Back.

Scarab Sages

baron arem heshvaun wrote:

SPOILERS

There must be something wrong with me (other than the obvious, of course). I've never been bothered by spoilers. There's this dude I used to work with who wouldn't even watch a movie trailer or TV show next episode blurb, just because he thought they might spoil something.


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Dudemeister:

Remember how the last movie was about the Rebellion needing to spark the fire that would burn down the first order? And in this movie we didn't see any of that? They just sent Lando off screen so the audience would get a big shot of all the ships that came to the rescue that didn't in TLJ. Why? Why did they come? They didn't show any of it.

The explicitly said Chewy and Lando were going to go get some reinforcements. Also "its not a navy its just... people..."

I really can't fault this movie for not working with the last jedi. There was nothing LEFT at the end of the last jedi to work with.


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RJ tried to be 'artistic' and push his own agenda and meaning in one movie of a nine movie saga. And it's not an agenda that doesn't deserve pushing, it's just horribly out of tune with the Skywalker Saga. Not Star Wars, but the corner of the Star Wars universe that is the Skywalker Saga. It's been done with the story of a young woman trying to find her father.

That said, if you think that slow, daisy-chaining tactics, poor logistical planning, and a chase scene at a pace that makes glaciers look like pod-racers, as well as a leader who isn't willing to take the minimal steps to avoid gross misunderstandings, are marvelous Star Wars material, then I feel a little sorry for you. There are parts of TLJ that were worth keeping, and parts that actually foreshadowed some of the events of RoS, but overall, it felt like half a Star Wars movie, and half a ham-fisted attempt to wrest an entire saga to his will. RoS feels like Star Wars, all the way through. And yes, there were callbacks to a heck of a lot things from prior films, but that seemed appropriate for the finale of the entire saga.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

BigNorseWolf

Spoiler:
There was plenty of fertile ground to be had. Rian Johnson literally set up: The First Order rules the galaxy and our heroes need to build a rebellion, and a new light side order from nothing. Rey needs to create a new path, not just retread the old. Kylo’s obsession with burning his past is going to destroy him. Poe is going to have to be a leader and organiser not just a flyboy. Finn is a true believer in the cause now, but maybe he and Rose need to do something about the systematic injustices allowing these wars to proliferate?

Instead we got McGuffins, people shouting exposition and running, no emotional investment, double down on ReyLo (gross), Palpatine 2: Force Electric boogaloo, and all the rebellion building happens offscreen.

Rian Johnson took the ball JJ gave him, and crafted something beautiful. JJ didn’t even understand the characters he created.


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Dudemeister

Spoiler:

Quote:
The First Order rules the galaxy and our heroes need to build a rebellion

That was the situation at the START of the last jedi. The first order had just blown up 5 planets and taken over.

At the end of the last jedi the entirety of the rebellion could fit in the Millenium falcon. Going from there to a big dramatic battle in one movie was bound to feel whiplashy.

Rian Johnson took what JJ gave him and had luke toss it over his shoulder to do something else. It didn't work.

JJ isn't flawless. He loves to set up mystery boxes, he's terrible at having something good in there.

It's a trilogy. You bump, set, spike. Abrams was a good choice for Bump. Rian went right to spike. Abrams had to bump and spike on his own in the last movie.

Luke was dead
Snoke was dead
the rebellion was too crushed to pull off star wars dunkirk.

You're talking about starting another trilogy, not a finale.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
BigNorseWolf wrote:

Dudemeister

** spoiler omitted **

Cool, bowing out the thread.

Enjoy the movie folks.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I LOVE ZORII

That is all.


4 people marked this as a favorite.

Okay not all.

The movie is flawed, but pulls a lot from fan and book theories(clones everywhere, duality in the force, the Emperor worshipped as a deity, the wink to Battlefront fans with the Final Order stuff) to make an okay-ish ending. I could tell the writers and actors were truly traumatized by the loss of Carrie Fisher and were kind of flailing in some part of the film without her, so I forgave the majority of the problems the film had.

They should have delved more into Finn and a few others having a connection to the force. I love that he is a believer now, but he didnt get enough screen time on that angle. The nods to that, when shown, went wildly from subtle to hit-you-over-the-head with no variance, and that was jarring. Also, that described the action in the movie as well.

I also loved that there were more than 2 black people on screen at once. And they talked to each other(with a setup for a pimpin' Lando movie).

I love that Hux had a minor storyline that was reminiscent of Rebels, but I think the actor dialed it in a bit.

Also, Y WINGS RULE!


Pan wrote:

JJ makes films that are beautiful, but move at break neck speed. You have no time to take in what is happening (which rarely makes any sense anyway). When the credits roll you love it, by the time the car ride home is over, you hate it.

The fanservice at least makes it a good experience for folks who dont care much about the nuances of film making.

Freehold will never complain about fanservice.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
DeathQuaker wrote:
What if we loved both movies? And are not invested enough in the Star Wars fandom to be too fussed by minor inconsistencies?

we both know that is impossible. Star Wars fans are known for their over the top fanaticism. And this is me talking.

[Ooc]hugs plush y wing. Do we have those? Because if we don't, we need to start making them.[/ ooc]

Liberty's Edge

5 people marked this as a favorite.

Well for those that have seen the movie can we all agree that

Spoiler:
The scene with Jar Jar Binks didn't feel like fan service at all, it felt like it was an important part of the movie.


CapeCodRPGer wrote:
Well for those that have seen the movie can we all agree that ** spoiler omitted **

Congradulations they haven't added a new circle to hell in eons..

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

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Freehold DM wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
What if we loved both movies? And are not invested enough in the Star Wars fandom to be too fussed by minor inconsistencies?

we both know that is impossible. Star Wars fans are known for their over the top fanaticism. And this is me talking.

[Ooc]hugs plush y wing. Do we have those? Because if we don't, we need to start making them.[/ ooc]

Ew, did you just call me a Star Wars fan? Please take that insult back.

I'm not a Star Wars fan. I love Star Wars far too much to ever be a Star Wars fan. The fans are the ones who hate Star Wars the most and ruin it for the rest of us. They're like Firefly fans, if Firefly fans somehow actually hated the show but still would never stop watching or talking or whining about it, or fighting with each other over it.

I just like to go see the movies with the shiny helmets and the pew pew noises and the laser swords, and I adore Carrie Fisher, may she rest in peace. And I don't even know or care what all the ships are called (and that is not an invitation to tell me), and don't give a f@@# about anything else.

Oh! Oh, I also like the parts where the laser swords go FWSSSHT and then sometimes go WOM WOM WOM.


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DeathQuaker wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
What if we loved both movies? And are not invested enough in the Star Wars fandom to be too fussed by minor inconsistencies?

we both know that is impossible. Star Wars fans are known for their over the top fanaticism. And this is me talking.

[Ooc]hugs plush y wing. Do we have those? Because if we don't, we need to start making them.[/ ooc]

Ew, did you just call me a Star Wars fan? Please take that insult back.

I'm not a Star Wars fan. I love Star Wars far too much to ever be a Star Wars fan. The fans are the ones who hate Star Wars the most and ruin it for the rest of us. They're like Firefly fans, if Firefly fans somehow actually hated the show but still would never stop watching or talking or whining about it, or fighting with each other over it.

That's not true...that's IMPOSSIBLE!


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Freehold DM wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
DeathQuaker wrote:
What if we loved both movies? And are not invested enough in the Star Wars fandom to be too fussed by minor inconsistencies?

we both know that is impossible. Star Wars fans are known for their over the top fanaticism. And this is me talking.

[Ooc]hugs plush y wing. Do we have those? Because if we don't, we need to start making them.[/ ooc]

Ew, did you just call me a Star Wars fan? Please take that insult back.

I'm not a Star Wars fan. I love Star Wars far too much to ever be a Star Wars fan. The fans are the ones who hate Star Wars the most and ruin it for the rest of us. They're like Firefly fans, if Firefly fans somehow actually hated the show but still would never stop watching or talking or whining about it, or fighting with each other over it.

That's not true...that's IMPOSSIBLE!

Search his post history. You know it to be true!

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