Spell Cartridges

[baggageboy]

So there's a new feat called spell cartridges that I am pretty excited about. I just wanted to check on a few things.

1. The force bullets act in all ways like regular bullets except that they do the specified amount of damage and do force damage. Ranges are unchanged as are the likelihood of misfires. You can still apply feats like deadly aim and effects as if they are normal bullets, correct?

2. If you are small the damage remains the same.

3. Because they do force damage they will bypass most dr types and you can shoot incorpreals.

4. Is there any odd interactions that I should know about?

[Melkiador]

1. I would think so. A little unrelated, but it’s a little unclear if you need to load them or if you can fire without loading.

2. Probably. As the damage scales by level, scaling it by size too should need to be called out.

3. I think the intent is for it to count as a normal magic bullet for bypassing DR. Otherwise, I don’t know why they’d mention it counting as magic for DR.

[baggageboy]

Hmmm, I hadn't considered that you might have to "load" force bullets. I don't think that that is the case, but I could see it being interpreted both ways. :(

As far as DR goes our fact that it does force damage (which is energy I believe) is why I was thinking it bypassed DR. Like if it did fire damage DR wouldn't really matter, ER/fire would. There just aren't many creatures (I can't think of any off hand) that have ER/Force.

[avr]

There's the odd indication that someone at Paizo thinks force damage isn't energy damage. One of the spellslinger abilities says 'energy damage or force damage' for example. It isn't consistent.

I'm pretty sure that you don't need to load force bullets. You can fire them while the gun is imbued by arcane strike and they don't require black powder or ammunition. Any ammunition - there's nothing to load.

[VoodistMonk]

This feat would be hilarious for a Bloodrager that already has Arcane Strike/ Blooded Arcane Strike and some/all of the Vital Strike feats...

Infinite force bullets whilst raging.

Not bad as a backup ranged weapon for a melee focused Bloodrager.

[baggageboy]

Another fun one is the warlock vigilante with the arcane striker talent, infinite holy flaming force bullets!

[Zwordsman]

Another question~

How precise is "bullets"
basically in pathfidner are pellets bullets? Generally spepaking, they do count as a general term bullets. There are a lot of interactions in game that wouldn't work if not assumed that. In real life pellets are still defined as a bullet as well.

But I thought I should ask as I remember some similiar verbage conflict coming up before when the Gunchemist came out.

I think it is something good to figure out though, As a Paddle wheel with this gun would work nicely with the scatter treatment. (which is one of my favorite builds with the gunchemist actually)

[blahpers]

Pretty sure bullets means bullets. But there's nothing preventing you from firing a force "bullet" from a scatter firearm.

[Zwordsman]

True. It just would be plenty cool to combine this with say a force bomb from a Gunchemist. and just have a great force scattter blast~

In general I wish Scatter property was more usable.

[FlashRebel]

avr wrote:

There's the odd indication that someone at Paizo thinks force damage isn't energy damage. One of the spellslinger abilities says 'energy damage or force damage' for example. It isn't consistent.

I'm pretty sure that you don't need to load force bullets. You can fire them while the gun is imbued by arcane strike and they don't require black powder or ammunition. Any ammunition - there's nothing to load.

Force damage isn't a form of energy damage and is subject to damage reduction if it comes from a weapon attack. As weapons that deal force damage are extremly rare, this doesn't come into play often.

Anyway, I personally wonder how this feat interacts with antimagic fields.

I suppose that as being in an antimagic field suppresses your ability to cast spells, this feat would be unusable anyway, but what about shooting a spell cartridge into or through an antimagic field?

[Zwordsman]

Well your ability to cast spells doesn't actually factor into it.

Just the arcane strike, which is what creates it. So does Arcane STrike work in antimagic?
I mean it is stated as arcane. However. I don't know if its classified as SU, or SLA, It would make sense for it not to work though. both should be ssurpressed but not disappated.

[willuwontu]

FlashRebel wrote:

Force damage isn't a form of energy damage and is subject to damage reduction if it comes from a weapon attack.

Force is an energy damage type.

Performance Combat Rules wrote:

Energy Spells and Effects: Crowds tend to respond to flashy spells and effects. If a combatant casts a spell or produces an effect that deals acid, cold, fire, electricity, force, or sonic damage in a visible way (including weapons with special abilities like flaming burst or shocking burst that deal bursts of energy damage on critical hits), she can make a performance combat check as a swift action.

Force Blast wrote:

Blast Type energy; Damage force

Because it's energy damage, it ignores DR.

[Zwordsman]

Ah.. I can not find it now.
but there was an UNOFFICIAL comment on spell cartdrige and why it listed DR and such. It was to keep language consistant with other things so it'll always be consistent.
I am pretty certain it isn't FAQ or official. but it does at least inform on it

assuming this works.

[zza ni]

baggageboy wrote:

..

1. The force bullets act in all ways like regular bullets except that they do the specified amount of damage and do force damage. Ranges are unchanged as are the likelihood of misfires. You can still apply feats like deadly aim and effects as if they are normal bullets, correct?
..

i don't play with gunslingers but if it doesn't use black-poweder does it have a misfire chance at all?

[baggageboy]

Zero mischance of misfire would be nice, but it doesn't mention any effect on that so I assume it doesn't change. Advanced guns can misfire so not using blackpowder doen't mean no misfire chance.

[willuwontu]

zza ni wrote:

baggageboy wrote:

..

1. The force bullets act in all ways like regular bullets except that they do the specified amount of damage and do force damage. Ranges are unchanged as are the likelihood of misfires. You can still apply feats like deadly aim and effects as if they are normal bullets, correct?
..

i don't play with gunslingers but if it doesn't use black-poweder does it have a misfire chance at all?

It still can misfire, one of the things that keep it balanced.

[Melkiador]

You could say it’s a magical explosion of force instead of an alchemical explosion.

[PossibleCabbage]

Came here hoping to find clarification on whether these needed to be loaded (which costs actions) or if I'm just manifesting something in the chamber magically and thus one could full attack with force bullets without rapid reload or anything of the sort.

[Melkiador]

Zwordsman gave a link to a designer post that it doesn’t require reloading. That’s about as official as you can get these days.

[PossibleCabbage]

Sweet, so an Urban Bloodrager with an Axe Musket does not need a million feats to be a switch hitter.

[Dragonborn3]

It could also be read to indicate you only get one 'load' each turn, so be sure to ask your GM.

EDIT: Nevermind, he he clarified further.

[Derklord]

baggageboy wrote:

Advanced guns can misfire so not using blackpowder doen't mean no misfire chance.

While it's not technically black powder a.k.a. gunpowder, per definition every firearm uses an explosive (nowadays often called "smokeless powder") as a propellant.

Pathfinder's advanced firearms should be older than the invention of smokeless power (1884). For comparison, the most famous classic revolver (Colt Single Action Army, a.k.a. Colt .45 or Peacemaker) is from 1873.

Also, misfires are still possible in todays firearms.

[Zwordsman]

I'm actually still wondering if the swift action arcane counts as "loading" for abilities that proc on loading action. Like Gunchemist's free action infusion of a explosive ordinance.
I can't see a reason they wouldn't now--as that is a free action. but is still worth a thought. There are a few things that work with reloads and probably will be more, assuming support for P1 doesn't end.

Also realized lately, that for a 3/4th caster. Spell cartrige + double barrel pistol (standard to shoot twice at -4) isn't a terrible option for them. Not going to have a lot of iterative in general, so getting two att as a standard action and still having the ability to move is rather appealing.