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Well, all you need to do is convert any monsters that don't have PF2 stats, and select new treasure based on the guidelines.
Monster creation rules will apparently not be in the Bestiary, but will nevertheless be out 'soon' per Erik Mona...so as soon as those are out you should be good to go for the most part.
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Well, there are also DCs that need to be converted. I already noticed that on level 1 DCs should be 3 lower than they are in 1E because your maximum possible score is 3 lower; 1E: +1 rank, +3 class skill bonus and +4 ability score = +8 and in the Playtest it's +0 trained, +1 level, +4 ability score = +5. That's without taking Skill Focus into account in 1E, which could boost it even more. I have no idea how much the DCs will differ on higher levels and would like to know what the people that made the system think about it.
Converting DCs is pretty doable just by eyeballing and figuring out whether they are supposed to be difficult. It's really not that hard
Also, I'm not sure if dividing the treasure by 10 (so gp becomes sp) will work out at higher levels. I know it's fine at level 1, but the Playtest assumes a level 20 character would have 20,000 gp of items, but in 1E it's 880,000 gp. Simply dividing treasure by 10 would lead to very wealthy PCs at higher levels.
Uh...in the PF2 playtest, a 20th level character has around 120k in items and then another 20k in loose change. That's a total of 140,000 gp of stuff...or 1.4 million if converted to PF1. Significantly more than the 880,000 gp you get in PF1.
You need to up treasure rewards to hit that, but items having levels makes coming up with treasure allocations actually vastly easier in PF2.
Monsters, CRs, DCs, money. Each of the different things involved in a conversion should hopefully be reasonable, but it would be good to have them all in one authoritative reference.
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Since in PF2 the monster design follows a "here are the target numbers, start with them and make stuff up so that it fits these numbers" philosophy instead of PF1's "here are the target numbers, now please try to replicate them by building the monster as it were a player character", conversion work should be easier. Take the benchmark, adjust things, benefit from tighter math. I won't miss reverse-engineering PF1 statblocks the slightest...
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Personally I'd rather have a 2E to 1E conversion. Grabbed the books on Humble because I'm poor and can't afford the bourgeoisie pricing the 2E books are going for.
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Personally I'd rather have a 2E to 1E conversion. Grabbed the books on Humble because I'm poor and can't afford the bourgeoisie pricing the 2E books are going for.
I don't think there's a significant pricing difference between 2E and 1E books. At least, not that can't be attributed to being new releases or having larger books on average, plus 10 years of inflation. A hardcover for the PF1 CRB seems to still retail for $50, and that's a 10 year old book.
I think many people are forgetting just how much they utilized free resources to make PF1 work, and those resources are still going to exist for PF2. And PDFs will of course still be cheaper than physical books.
Personally I'd rather have a 2E to 1E conversion. Grabbed the books on Humble because I'm poor and can't afford the bourgeoisie pricing the 2E books are going for.I don't think there's a significant pricing difference between 2E and 1E books. At least, not that can't be attributed to being new releases or having larger books on average, plus 10 years of inflation. A hardcover for the PF1 CRB seems to still retail for $50, and that's a 10 year old book.
I think many people are forgetting just how much they utilized free resources to make PF1 work, and those resources are still going to exist for PF2. And PDFs will of course still be cheaper than physical books.
Came here to say exactly this. Yes the CRB is $10 more expensive than the PF1 CRB, but it's 10 years later and the book is a solid 70 pages longer with (I hope) a better binding than the first print run PF1 CRB
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Came here to say exactly this. Yes the CRB is $10 more expensive than the PF1 CRB, but it's 10 years later and the book is a solid 70 pages longer with (I hope) a better binding than the first print run PF1 CRBPersonally I'd rather have a 2E to 1E conversion. Grabbed the books on Humble because I'm poor and can't afford the bourgeoisie pricing the 2E books are going for.I don't think there's a significant pricing difference between 2E and 1E books. At least, not that can't be attributed to being new releases or having larger books on average, plus 10 years of inflation. A hardcover for the PF1 CRB seems to still retail for $50, and that's a 10 year old book.
I think many people are forgetting just how much they utilized free resources to make PF1 work, and those resources are still going to exist for PF2. And PDFs will of course still be cheaper than physical books.
On reddit, they said it was 210 pages longer than the PF1 one. This book is going to be an ABSOLUTE UNIT.
On reddit, they said it was 210 pages longer than the PF1 one. This book is going to be an ABSOLUTE UNIT.
No, it's not that much longer. The write up on the main page says it's 640 pages, PF1 was 576. So it's just shy of 70 pages longer.
I think this is the place to ask....
Will the Bestiary contain entries for bandits, townsfolk, and "generic" folks. I am thinking of running a Kingmaker game using PF2 rules, but I would really rather not have to take the time recreating all the non-"monster" type folks.
-- david
Bandits and the like are pretty standard low level enemies, so not including them would be strange - higher level humanoids probably still need converting, I imagine.
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Bandits and the like are pretty standard low level enemies, so not including them would be strange - higher level humanoids probably still need converting, I imagine.
Indeed, and we have some things that can qualify as bandits in the playtest bestiary already. I think it is safe to say Paizo will give us some options for humanoid combatants.
I don't expect them to spend much (or any) print space on non-combatants, though. I think important NPCs will probably get a stat block like Captain Whark had in Doomsday Dawn: perception (in case PCs try to lie to them), will (in case PCs try to Coerce or use Diplomacy on them) and the most relevant skills they have.
For NPCs that don't really matter, I am guessing the DC table will be used to fill in any gaps. If we know the average level of a townsperson is 2, and your PCs try to bluff one of these average citizens, we use a challenge of that level (2) adjusted by circumstances. If the citizen is particularly trusting, it might be a level-1 challenge, for example.
More robust world building beyond this seems like prime material for whatever our new equivalent to the Gamemastery guide winds up in.
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Either Reddit is wrong or they have misunderstood. The CRB in PF2 is 70 pages longer than CRB in PF1. However the 210 pages might be a reference to the playtest rulebook. The CRB is 210 pages longer than that.On reddit, they said it was 210 pages longer than the PF1 one. This book is going to be an ABSOLUTE UNIT.Came here to say exactly this. Yes the CRB is $10 more expensive than the PF1 CRB, but it's 10 years later and the book is a solid 70 pages longer with (I hope) a better binding than the first print run PF1 CRBPersonally I'd rather have a 2E to 1E conversion. Grabbed the books on Humble because I'm poor and can't afford the bourgeoisie pricing the 2E books are going for.I don't think there's a significant pricing difference between 2E and 1E books. At least, not that can't be attributed to being new releases or having larger books on average, plus 10 years of inflation. A hardcover for the PF1 CRB seems to still retail for $50, and that's a 10 year old book.
I think many people are forgetting just how much they utilized free resources to make PF1 work, and those resources are still going to exist for PF2. And PDFs will of course still be cheaper than physical books.
Yeah, it's about 50% longer than the playtest rulebook by pages, but more like 70 pages longer than the PF1 CRB. It also has plenty of new art (there's some really kickass half-pagers, some of which you might see in these evolution blogs like the Amiri one that went up!), where PF1 CRB and Bestiary relied a lot on picking up art from previous Paizo sources.
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Personally I'd rather have a 2E to 1E conversion. Grabbed the books on Humble because I'm poor and can't afford the bourgeoisie pricing the 2E books are going for.
I'll gulp Dom Perignon while reading my copies.
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Personally I'd rather have a 2E to 1E conversion. Grabbed the books on Humble because I'm poor and can't afford the bourgeoisie pricing the 2E books are going for.
I've heard a lot recently about the "unreasonably high price" of RPG books... especially from gamers of my age demographic who remember the AD&D Players Handbook retailing for $15!
While that's true, it's also misleading.
The PFRPG Core Rulebook will list for $60 in 2019 dollars.
For comparison, upon release, the AD&D Players Handbook did list for $15, and the Dungeon Master's Guide listed for $20. So, the equivalent of the PFRPG CRB went for $35.
In 1979.
Adjusting for inflation, $35 in 1979 had the buying power of $129 in 2019 dollars.
In other words, adjusting into today's dollars, 1st edition AD&D books cost more than twice what the PFRPG 2e CRB will cost!
And those books of old were printed in black-and-white, in a hard-to-read typeface, with amateur-level line art.
So in comparison: Today's books are a steal!
Personally I'd rather have a 2E to 1E conversion. Grabbed the books on Humble because I'm poor and can't afford the bourgeoisie pricing the 2E books are going for.I've heard a lot recently about the "unreasonably high price" of RPG books... especially from gamers of my age demographic who remember the AD&D Players Handbook retailing for $15!
While that's true, it's also misleading.
The PFRPG Core Rulebook will list for $60 in 2019 dollars.
For comparison, upon release, the AD&D Players Handbook did list for $15, and the Dungeon Master's Guide listed for $20. So, the equivalent of the PFRPG CRB went for $35.
In 1979.
Adjusting for inflation, $35 in 1979 had the buying power of $129 in 2019 dollars.
In other words, adjusting into today's dollars, 1st edition AD&D books cost more than twice what the PFRPG 2e CRB will cost!
And those books of old were printed in black-and-white, in a hard-to-read typeface, with amateur-level line art.
So in comparison: Today's books are a steal!
So much this. Like is the $300 or so to get all the pf2 releas material gonna hurt oh yah but comparatively they are cheap considering inflation and will be used for 10 or more years. Most modern electronics like phones and tablets last 2-4 years and cost $1000's
Well, I know I'll be working on a PF1 to P2 conversion as well as a Playtest to P2 conversion guide, because I currently have a War for the Crown Playtest Rule campaign running and I will need to port it over.
I have most of the calculations for P1 to PT already, and PT to P2 is very much oriented to just adjusting my PCs' characters, but I might post out my work in regards to P1 to P2. I know a few GMs already working in that direction.
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Whiel I'd always want to have the core rulebook handy, there are (will be) SRD sites, and that is what we actually use in play 90% of the time - except one player who is laptop-challenged.
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I think this is the place to ask....
Will the Bestiary contain entries for bandits, townsfolk, and "generic" folks. I am thinking of running a Kingmaker game using PF2 rules, but I would really rather not have to take the time recreating all the non-"monster" type folks.
-- david
Considering the fact that...
1) there are no new Ancestries in the PF2 Bestiary 1,
2) yet previously playable species like Kobolds made the mark,
3) which concludes that there will be an separate Ancestry version for such old timers later, (probably with glaring differences with the monster version, which will be a total shame in my opinion; give my N-PC Transparency back!!!),
there must be a "generic NPC" lineup in there for the other playable races, for the sake of consistency and inter-rac..ancestrial equality. If that happens, I'd like Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, and Halflings their own separate entries in the new Bestiary, with the Human section for said generic list (they still outnumber others by a lot in canon, right?).
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3) which concludes that there will be an separate Ancestry version for such old timers later, (probably with glaring differences with the monster version, which will be a total shame in my opinion; give my N-PC Transparency back!!!),
The way Goblins have been designed argues otherwise (ie: they gave the generic Goblin monster ability to the Goblin Ancestry as an Ancestry Feat).
So...yes, it will be separate, but that doesn't mean there will be any more inconsistencies between Kobold PCs and NPCs than there are between Human PCs and NPCs.
there must be a "generic NPC" lineup in there for the other playable races, for the sake of consistency and inter-rac..ancestrial equality. If that happens, I'd like Dwarves, Elves, Gnomes, and Halflings their own separate entries in the new Bestiary, with the Human section for said generic list (they still outnumber others by a lot in canon, right?).
This is easy to do in the playtest since the only things you need to change are movement, vision type, and adding or replacing an Ancestry Feat if you want. I can't imagine it'll get suddenly harder in the final game.
Personally I'd rather have a 2E to 1E conversion.
+1 for this!
And if that doesn't get published by Paizo, then a PF1 to PF2 conversion document would be an excellent idea.
9th-level Heal
I completely forgot that Goblin Scuttle shenanigan! Hope it will be fixed to be a 1st level feat in the Core proper, and similar stuff be abundant for all the playable future monster Ancestries.
Yeah, about that little amount of non-transparency, I can live with.
and on the matter of NPC listings
I just felt that if the highly likely Goblin page shows up as a page in the new Bestiary, it's fair for the other non-human ancestries to receive similar treatment (especially for Elf and Dwarf, since Drow and Duergar are most likely to be Heritages for their respective parent Ancestries).
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I completely forgot that Goblin Scuttle shenanigan! Hope it will be fixed to be a 1st level feat in the Core proper, and similar stuff be abundant for all the playable future monster Ancestries.
Yeah, about that little amount of non-transparency, I can live with.
They actually already said that it being 9th was a typo, so I can't imagine it not having been fixed. And yeah, I think it'll work out okay.
I just felt that if the highly likely Goblin page shows up as a page in the new Bestiary, it's fair for the other non-human ancestries to receive similar treatment (especially for Elf and Dwarf, since Drow and Duergar are most likely to be Heritages for their respective parent Ancestries).
I'm not sure Drow and Duergar are gonna be Heritages. They could be, but that doesn't mean they must be.
I do certainly hope we get entries for Human, Dwarf, Elf, and so on NPCs...but the playtest Bestiary already had some of those, so it seems likely, and building NPCs with the PC rules remains legal to tide us over until we get the monster creation rules, so I think it'll work out.
Keep in mind that the knowledge of the existence of drows is a very tightly kept secret in Golarion. I don't see it suddenly becoming a core option for characters.
Keep in mind that the knowledge of the existence of drows is a very tightly kept secret in Golarion. I don't see it suddenly becoming a core option for characters.
Ha - it only just occurred to me that the "Cavern Elf" heritage doesn't necessarily translate as "Drow" in everybody's head.
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Keep in mind that the knowledge of the existence of drows is a very tightly kept secret in Golarion. I don't see it suddenly becoming a core option for characters.Ha - it only just occurred to me that the "Cavern Elf" heritage doesn't necessarily translate as "Drow" in everybody's head.
It probably doesn't in the people who wrote it. Specifically, the Elves of Jinin in Tian Xia are otherwise entirely normal Elves who survived Earthfall underground but without becoming something entirely else like the Drow. That Heritage seems tailor-made for them.
It probably doesn't in the people who wrote it. Specifically, the Elves of Jinin in Tian Xia are otherwise entirely normal Elves who survived Earthfall underground but without becoming something entirely else like the Drow. That Heritage seems tailor-made for them.Keep in mind that the knowledge of the existence of drows is a very tightly kept secret in Golarion. I don't see it suddenly becoming a core option for characters.Ha - it only just occurred to me that the "Cavern Elf" heritage doesn't necessarily translate as "Drow" in everybody's head.
Very good point.
I completely forgot that Goblin Scuttle shenanigan! Hope it will be fixed to be a 1st level feat in the Core proper, and similar stuff be abundant for all the playable future monster Ancestries.
Yeah, about that little amount of non-transparency, I can live with.
They actually already said that it being 9th was a typo, so I can't imagine it not having been fixed. And yeah, I think it'll work out okay.
I just felt that if the highly likely Goblin page shows up as a page in the new Bestiary, it's fair for the other non-human ancestries to receive similar treatment (especially for Elf and Dwarf, since Drow and Duergar are most likely to be Heritages for their respective parent Ancestries).I'm not sure Drow and Duergar are gonna be Heritages. They could be, but that doesn't mean they must be.
I do certainly hope we get entries for Human, Dwarf, Elf, and so on NPCs...but the playtest Bestiary already had some of those, so it seems likely, and building NPCs with the PC rules remains legal to tide us over until we get the monster creation rules, so I think it'll work out.
Now I wonder. Do regular NPC people use the same ability score generation as the PCs? Since 3.5 they have had inferior spreads/point buys so the PCs and Boss-type enemies would stand out.
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Personally I'd rather have a 2E to 1E conversion.
+1 for this!
And if that doesn't get published by Paizo, then a PF1 to PF2 conversion document would be an excellent idea.
Also +1 for this! Would continue supporting Paizo's adventure material if they released a 2E to 1E conversion.
Now I wonder. Do regular NPC people use the same ability score generation as the PCs? Since 3.5 they have had inferior spreads/point buys so the PCs and Boss-type enemies would stand out.I completely forgot that Goblin Scuttle shenanigan! Hope it will be fixed to be a 1st level feat in the Core proper, and similar stuff be abundant for all the playable future monster Ancestries.
Yeah, about that little amount of non-transparency, I can live with.
They actually already said that it being 9th was a typo, so I can't imagine it not having been fixed. And yeah, I think it'll work out okay.
I just felt that if the highly likely Goblin page shows up as a page in the new Bestiary, it's fair for the other non-human ancestries to receive similar treatment (especially for Elf and Dwarf, since Drow and Duergar are most likely to be Heritages for their respective parent Ancestries).I'm not sure Drow and Duergar are gonna be Heritages. They could be, but that doesn't mean they must be.
I do certainly hope we get entries for Human, Dwarf, Elf, and so on NPCs...but the playtest Bestiary already had some of those, so it seems likely, and building NPCs with the PC rules remains legal to tide us over until we get the monster creation rules, so I think it'll work out.
I am envisioning a greater focus on what ability scores make sense in the narrative. A combatant NPC probably led a life fairly similar to a PCs, and thus will have ability scores that look fairly similar. Especially given the focus on making sure that at equal levels PC = Monster = NPC for overall challenge rating.
For low level commoners, I think you could just give them ancestry and background boosts and nothing else. For higher level NPCs (say, a master dancer) I imagine you could use the PC boost guidelines but tweaked to the life that character lived. Perhaps they boosted their charisma an dexterity at level 5, but nothing else. Meanwhile a master blacksmith might have boosted strength, constitution, and intelligence.
Now I wonder. Do regular NPC people use the same ability score generation as the PCs? Since 3.5 they have had inferior spreads/point buys so the PCs and Boss-type enemies would stand out.
If I had to guess, they would use something similar to starfinder NPC generation to make it easier for the GM to slap some NPCs together.
There would be basic combat numbers to start from, attack bonus, skill bonuses, HP, AC, saves, etc. Then you would apply a class template if they aren't just 'generic warrior #2' with a number of class feats or special abilities based on NPC level.
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Now I wonder. Do regular NPC people use the same ability score generation as the PCs? Since 3.5 they have had inferior spreads/point buys so the PCs and Boss-type enemies would stand out.
Since they're made as monsters, this appears to be entirely at GM discretion (since Ability Scores don't effect things like to-hit bonus). That said, as Garretmander notes, there'll probably be rough guidelines based on level.
I'd like to bump this thread because I'd really like to run some 1E adventures in the 2E ruleset. When can we expect a Conversion Guide?
The lack of monster creation rules in the Bestiary means we have to wait several months for a book (the Gamemastery Guide) to easily compare DCs, attack bonuses, etc.
And my main immediate question is how to convert PF1 modules/adventure paths to PF2. For example, let's take a 1st-level encounter in PF1. If an encounter is given a CR of 1, what does that translate to in PF2?
PF1: three dogs that are each CR 1/3, total CR 1
PF2: CR __?
Currently I'm treating PF1 encounter whose CR equals the average party level as a "Low" difficulty encounter in PF2, with an encounter budget of 60 XP. I also treated as a CR 2 creature from PF1 as a CR 3 creature from PF2 (80XP for a "moderate" encounter), but that seemed maybe a little too strong...
During the Gen Con panels, Jason kept talking about a conversion guide as though he expected someone at Paizo to put it up this weekend. Since that didn't happen, my best guess is that it will be linked in a blog this week.
From what (little) Jason said about the Conversion Guide at Gen Con, it sounds like it's more, "If a P1e character is a non-core class, here's a suggested P2e build for them." I didn't get the impression there would be any rules about monster-building (other than "replace P1e orc statblock with P2e orc statblock) until the GMG.
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From what (little) Jason said about the Conversion Guide at Gen Con, it sounds like it's more, "If a P1e character is a non-core class, here's a suggested P2e build for them." I didn't get the impression there would be any rules about monster-building (other than "replace P1e orc statblock with P2e orc statblock) until the GMG.
That's too bad. I have a huge amount of adventures for PF1. It would be a nice act of good faith to customers who began with PF1, to give us tools to allow us to run our back catalog using the new system. Are we now to consider them all obsolete and just buy material for the new edition?
I hope someone comes up with some conversion guidelines.
As for the suggestion of substituting in monsters from PF2, my friend was running a well-known Level 1 PF1 module last night, and found that the module's shocker lizard did not have an equivalent in the new Bestiary. It would have been nice to have a table to make a rough conversion of the math.
As for the suggestion of substituting in monsters from PF2, my friend was running a well-known Level 1 PF1 module last night, and found that the module's shocker lizard did not have an equivalent in the new Bestiary. It would have been nice to have a table to make a rough conversion of the math.
Very much agree with this.
I've had success with finding a same CR similar creature and re-flavoring the abilities, but some official guidance would be nice, especially where there's no close match for the creature you want to use in the 2e Bestiary.EDIT: Was it Master of the Fallen Fortress? I ran that with playtest rules, I think I swapped the shocker lizard for a slurk...
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As for the suggestion of substituting in monsters from PF2, my friend was running a well-known Level 1 PF1 module last night, and found that the module's shocker lizard did not have an equivalent in the new Bestiary. It would have been nice to have a table to make a rough conversion of the math.Very much agree with this.
I've had success with finding a same CR similar creature and re-flavoring the abilities, but some official guidance would be nice, especially where there's no close match for the creature you want to use in the 2e Bestiary.EDIT: Was it Master of the Fallen Fortress? I ran that with playtest rules, I think I swapped the shocker lizard for a slurk...
Yes it was! He ended up using 2 different entries from the Bestiary and improvised with them. I was a player and so I didn't know which entries he used.