Looking for low-mid level army killing spells


Advice


So, yeah... Exactly what the title says, but I'll refine my terms a little. I need one spell that fills the following criteria:

~Up to level 5, preferably 4
~Caster level 10
~Can kill up to 1,600 targets with four castings.
~Assume most of the army to be a reasonable level 1 character.
~Direct damage preferred
~Lower level spells with metamagics are completely allowed
~Third party spells are allowed
~No mythic versions, as we aren't using it.

My GM is telling me that an idea I had for a spell is over powered explicitly because it is, as he and I both define it, 'an army killer'. But I know for a fact that Contagion could do it with a little luck, and that Greater Contagion could do it with great ease. But I'm looking for 'quick' results on the slaughter.


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Zarius wrote:

So, yeah... Exactly what the title says, but I'll refine my terms a little. I need one spell that fills the following criteria:

~Up to level 5, preferably 4
~Caster level 10
~Can kill up to 1,600 targets with four castings.
~Assume most of the army to be a reasonable level 1 character.
~Direct damage preferred
~Lower level spells with metamagics are completely allowed
~Third party spells are allowed
~No mythic versions, as we aren't using it.

My GM is telling me that an idea I had for a spell is over powered explicitly because it is, as he and I both define it, 'an army killer'. But I know for a fact that Contagion could do it with a little luck, and that Greater Contagion could do it with great ease. But I'm looking for 'quick' results on the slaughter.

The key question is how dispersed this army is. Very few spells can affect widely-separated targets. Best bets as far as I can tell are Cloudkill and Firefall.

Edit: Cloudkill would most definitely take care of your criteria, assuming your caster can position correctly. Initial 20' radius is 44 squares, with an additional 12 squares/round. At CL 10, it moves for 10 minutes or 100 rounds, so the maximum is 1232 squares if I'm calculating right.

Firefall is just barely in criteria, as the 60' radius should cover about 450 squares, so 1800 for four castings.

This is Paizo-only. There may be 3rd party spells that work as well or better.


Smallfoot wrote:
The key question is how dispersed this army is. Very few spells can affect widely-separated targets. Best bets as far as I can tell are Cloudkill and Firefall.

this is true, if they are all stacked up casteller style a spell like flame strike is probably sufficient.


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Kobold Press has a summon undead 1 that lets you summon a shadow. Should do the trick.

You will have to have a way to deal with the afterwards though, if you care.


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Control Winds - Druid / Shaman level 5

At 10th level: 400' radius = 800' diameter (reasonable if the army is in tight formations). Keep the eye of the storm small.

First casting, assuming no wind, boosts the wind levels. Second/Third castings you can bring it all the way up to a Tornado level event - That should pretty much kill off the vast majority of those caught within it.

Find a way to sneak it into a Greater Glyph of Warding (Shaman could pull it off) and create some glyph bombs.


Dracovar wrote:
First casting, assuming no wind, boosts the wind levels. Second/Third castings you can bring it all the way up to a Tornado level event

Spell effects don't generally stack, each spell is dealing with the 'default' non-magically adjusted conditions.


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One thing that's weird about PF is that the amount of magic available in the setting and the average level of people is going to radically affect how "armies" work. It's entirely possible that in a world with significant amounts of AoE damage, skirmish and sniping is the order of the day.

But, that doesn't give you a happy or useful answer. So lets consider what happens if someone convinces a gigantic number of level 1 people to fight, and forms them up one per 5' square PF battlemat style. Now, this isn't entirely fair - close order combat has historically been closer order than that. So maybe you could double the number below if you assume denser formations than PFs main rules would indicate.

A lesser metamagic rod of Widen Spell can be used with Fireball. That's a 14000 gp item, but given the context that seems pretty reasonable. A Widened Fireball has a 40' radius, which I count as 172 squares/targets, and is probably killing everybody in it. And honestly, that's probably enough - if not to kill an army, at least to change the nature of warfare. I mean, it hasn't done as much damage as you wanted, but the people who saw that explosion don't know how many more you have, and don't have any way of surviving it, so are they really going to continue to fight? Historical battles were usually won when one side broke, not when everyone was dead.

But hey, what if they're immune to morale?

A 60' radius can hit 384 squares/targets. So four castings of Firefall can get you 1536. That's basically your specification.

But what if we really hate everything that lives?

Do a blockbuster wizard build, but pick Firefall as the target of metamagic reduction traits. Now cast Widened Firefalls in L5 slots. Each casting can hit, I think, 1536 squares/targets.

Of course, that requires L5 slots and two traits in a rather specialised spell. But it does seem like it would change the nature of warfare.


The Spike Stones spell should be able to do it.
With caster level 10 you can create 10 20ft squares of spiked ground that deals 1d8 damage per 5ft someone walks through. So you can easily encircle the army and any level 1 soldier trying to cross the 20ft wide rectangle takes 4d8 damage and has to succeed 4 ref saves to not have his feet injured resulting in halved movement until the damage is healed.

In fact the area is large enough so that 3 castings should be enough saving the last casting for something to get them moving. Like summon swarm, Rain of frogs or some kind of fear spell.


Dave Justus wrote:
Dracovar wrote:
First casting, assuming no wind, boosts the wind levels. Second/Third castings you can bring it all the way up to a Tornado level event
Spell effects don't generally stack, each spell is dealing with the 'default' non-magically adjusted conditions.

Hmnnn - Nice catch, I stand corrected - one might argue that the second casting produces a differing result given the change in the wind in the area (from the first casting), but I'd pretty much be inclined to rule that it's two or more identical spells operating in the same area, as you suggest.

From D20..............

Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths

In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the one with the highest strength applies.

Same Effect with Differing Results

The same spell can sometimes produce varying effects if applied to the same recipient more than once. Usually the last spell in the series trumps the others. None of the previous spells are actually removed or dispelled, but their effects become irrelevant while the final spell in the series lasts.

......................

Ah well, the strategy is still sound - just wait for a breezy/windy day, and then hit the army with it to escalate to tornado level wind force.

Alternately, if they can find a way to boost it past caster level 10, you can pretty much go from calm day to tornado in one go. But you need a bit more caster levels to pull it off.


To be honest, I think a single casting of Control Winds from zero wind will do it, if the army is encamped, rather than at barracks. Flying debris does damage, when you consider that an army camp is going to be full of unattended weapons and armor... and, if winds are strong enough to tear off roofs, things like horse lances, tent poles, and the like are going to be airborne hazards to everything.

Good suggestions, though, thanks everyone.


Out of curiosity, what’s your custom spell?


Fireball.

Flaming Sphere

Fire Trap: Fire Trap is a Special Duration spell: permanent until discharged. You can potentially store up a huge number of Fire traps and set them all off at the same time.

Hydraulic Torrent + a Hazard, like a nice cliff face, or maybe the deck of a ship in the middle of the ocean.

Web, used creatively.


How about Thorny Entanglement. It is a 40' radius spread that can fling an additional 15'. That is, effectively, a 55' radius area. This gets 324 squares. [964 if the spell is widened. A lesser rod of widen is only 14K if allowed. A Gem of widening are only 4K each.]

All told, a little underpowered for your requirements, but it is only a 3rd level spell.

/cevah

Sovereign Court

Possession on the general, split the army into two groups have them march all day and then night raid each other's camps.
Etheric Shards, same as Spike Stones but invisible and smaller area and causes bleeding. Heck, Possession to order a charge through a line of 3x cast shards.
Lesser Planar Binding for a Gloomwing for their 30' confusion aura and implant ability. Or 3 Lesser Planar Bindings for 3 Apocalypse Locusts for 130' confusion, though they are mythic 3.

Widened Stone Call (as a 5th level spell) for a 80' radius of 2d6 damage 4 times, no attack roll, no save, no SR will likely kill any level 1 even if you roll low. 80' radius is about 800 squares that I can figure. Not quite 1600, but 2 casting on average (14 hp) will kill level 1s unless they are high con fighters or barbarians. So 2 sets of 2 castings would be 1600 squares.


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Quote:

Maelstrom of Life

School evocation [Force, Positive]; Level cleric/oracle (4/5?), druid 6, inquisitor 4, shaman 6, Paladin 4

CASTING

Casting Time Special (see Discription)
Components V, DF

EFFECT

Range Long
Target One or more creatures
Effect One or more bolts of energy
Duration Instant
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no

DESCRIPTION

The caster of this spell creates a sphere of energy that, when released, breaks into a number of bolts of energy meant to devestate the undead.
~Though the spell can be cast as a standard action that generates a single bolt, if charged for two or more rounds, the spell generages a number of bolts equal to the number of rounds charged squared.
~Each bolt deals the caster's caster level in damage, half of which is force, half of which is positive energy.
~Any number of creatures up to the number of bolts generated can be targeted, but a single creature can only be targeted by a number of bolts equal to the number of rounds it is charged. Any bolts not directed at a creature, or directed at a creature past this limit, are wasted.
~The spell may be charged for a number of rounds equal to the caster's level, though as part of the charging action on the last round of charging, the spell may be recast to continue charging further.
~Each time the spell is recast, a concentration check must be made, equal to 15 + 2 for each previous casting, including the initial one. Concentration checks made to maintain the spell through damage also incur the penalty for extra castings.
~Failing a concentration check does not cause the entire spell to be lost, but it does end the charging time and force the caster to allocate targets.
~As the sphere is created, it generates visible, bright light in the space of the caster and breaks immediately breaks invisibility of all types affecting the caster. Each round the spell is charged increases the light radius by 5 feet, with no upward maximum. The light does not eminate past this radius, simply ending abruptly. This effect also suppresses any magical darkness in it's area until the spell is released. This effect doesn't hurt or drive off light-fearing undead, rather causing any undead in it's area to consider the caster a grave threat. Any undead that can see the caster, but who aren't in it's area, consider the caster a serious threat. Undead that can see the light, but not the source, consider the light a threat, but may or may not be compelled to investigate it, depending on the circumstances.

I was listening to the Wheel of Time books, and one of the scenes inspired me a bit.

Grand Lodge

What you need is Stone Call. No save, No SR. Just 2d6 dm. in a 40’ft radius leaving difficult terrain to prevent the army to run away quickly while you kill them.
Beef it up with metamagics as you like. Done. Army is gone, only some commanders left to cleane up.
Edit: ah didn’t see that Firebug already suggested that.


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Actually, Khan, I didn't notice that either, so thanks for telling me. It's a pretty good spell for this purpose. Even just a 40 foot radius can be down right devastating on, say, a battalion going through drills or an army marching in ranks. Recruit camps? Wiped out. Bases on their monthly uniform inspections? Leveled. Hell, we're assuming a tenth level caster. He could Widen it and use himself as bait to lure most of an army into an 80' radius. My character once lit himself on fire to escape the belly of something that had eaten him. Centering the spell on himself would be right up his almost-suicidal approach to warfare.


I mean.. you could do damage.

Or. You could make them kill themselves.

Summon monster 5. Buy a cauldron of overwhelming allies. 4.5 k

4 castings plus 1d3 extra.

Summon 5d3 gibbering mouthers.

Watch as 60 feet around each of them, people tear each other apart.

Unlike all the damage spells listed, that's multiple rounds of fun as they move around.

I mean...if you're gunna do it. Do it in style


*Khan* wrote:

What you need is Stone Call. No save, No SR. Just 2d6 dm. in a 40’ft radius leaving difficult terrain to prevent the army to run away quickly while you kill them.

Beef it up with metamagics as you like. Done. Army is gone, only some commanders left to cleane up.

2d6 doesn't reliably kill "a reasonable level 1 character". 1st level Warrior with NPC array should have 10-11 HP.

Grand Lodge

Derklord wrote:
*Khan* wrote:

What you need is Stone Call. No save, No SR. Just 2d6 dm. in a 40’ft radius leaving difficult terrain to prevent the army to run away quickly while you kill them.

Beef it up with metamagics as you like. Done. Army is gone, only some commanders left to cleane up.
2d6 doesn't reliably kill "a reasonable level 1 character". 1st level Warrior with NPC array should have 10-11 HP.

Yes the 4 castings would need to overlap or metamagics to increase damage or area. With magical lineage you could even do a quickend Stone Call.


I dont think magical lineage is going to come up in this obviously set up scenario at hand, to be fair.


Cevah wrote:

How about Thorny Entanglement. It is a 40' radius spread that can fling an additional 15'. That is, effectively, a 55' radius area. This gets 324 squares. [964 if the spell is widened. A lesser rod of widen is only 14K if allowed. A Gem of widening are only 4K each.]

All told, a little underpowered for your requirements, but it is only a 3rd level spell.

While T.E. is also 2d6, it is no save, no SR, automatic if you are in the area. It is each round the spell lasts. The spell lasts 1 min/level. And it entangles. If you are out of the area, but in range [i.e. the extra 15'] you are attacked at BAB (CL+Stat) for 2d6, arguably with iterative.

/cevah


Firebug wrote:
Widened Stone Call (as a 5th level spell) for a 80' radius of 2d6 damage 4 times, no attack roll, no save, no SR will likely kill any level 1 even if you roll low. 80' radius is about 800 squares that I can figure.

I spent a bit of time the other day mapping out large AoEs, and I think an 80' radius works out at 684 squares. So it's good, but it's not quite there.

Sovereign Court

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Lucy_Valentine wrote:
Firebug wrote:
Widened Stone Call (as a 5th level spell) for a 80' radius of 2d6 damage 4 times, no attack roll, no save, no SR will likely kill any level 1 even if you roll low. 80' radius is about 800 squares that I can figure.
I spent a bit of time the other day mapping out large AoEs, and I think an 80' radius works out at 684 squares. So it's good, but it's not quite there.

Yeah, I just took the area of a circle 80' radius (~20,000) and divided by 25 to get squares.

T.E. is also 1 level higher and can't be widened by a 10th level caster without extra stuff (rods, traits, etc).

I also said 2 castings on Stone Call would eliminate almost all level 1s on average, 4d6 averages 14.

Another option: Lesser Curse Terrain (Spell level 2) probably just 4 times.
300' radius. You get to pick 3 hazards up to CR 3 each that happen "frequently" over the day duration and within the radius. One of the options is Rain of Gore. Basically 500' radius 2d6 damage for 2d4X10 minutes for each round the character is out in the open. Reflex save negates at only DC 13, but it really depends on if "tents" are considered enough cover.
Since its wider than the radius of the spell, you pretty much affect the whole area. Since the spell is only level 2, you can Widen it but then you don't quite affect everything in the area. 600' radius for the spell and 500' radius for Rain of Gore.
The higher level version of the spell (spell level 4) goes to radius 1 mile but the triggered effects aren't really increased in size. It lets you pick 4 hazards up to CR 6, which would then include Field of Bone (animates up to 24 skeletons each time its triggered), Animating Fog (1d4x50' radius, animates corpses totaling up to 30 HD), Sanguinary Cloud (60' radius Fort or 1d3 con damage each round), or Suicide Copse (each hour spent in the copse, DC 16 Terrible Remorse, basically hit yourself for 1d8+str damage every round for a minute). Suicide Copse doesn't give an area but is also described as possibly being up to hundreds of square miles, so arguably 1 mile radius Extended Curse Terrain for 2 days of save or hit yourself.


For reference, here is a list of radius to squares covered:

Table up to 300':
Calculated via Excel:

5' radius: 4 squares
10' radius: 12 squares
15' radius: 24 squares
20' radius: 44 squares
25' radius: 68 squares
30' radius: 96 squares
35' radius: 132 squares
40' radius: 172 squares
45' radius: 216 squares
50' radius: 268 squares
55' radius: 324 squares
60' radius: 384 squares
65' radius: 452 squares
70' radius: 524 squares
75' radius: 600 squares
80' radius: 684 squares
85' radius: 772 squares
90' radius: 864 squares
95' radius: 964 squares
100' radius: 1068 squares
105' radius: 1176 squares
110' radius: 1292 squares
115' radius: 1412 squares
120' radius: 1536 squares
125' radius: 1668 squares
130' radius: 1804 squares
135' radius: 1944 squares
140' radius: 2092 squares
145' radius: 2244 squares
150' radius: 2400 squares
155' radius: 2564 squares
160' radius: 2732 squares
165' radius: 2904 squares
170' radius: 3084 squares
175' radius: 3268 squares
180' radius: 3456 squares
185' radius: 3652 squares
190' radius: 3852 squares
195' radius: 4056 squares
200' radius: 4268 squares
205' radius: 4484 squares
210' radius: 4704 squares
215' radius: 4932 squares
220' radius: 5164 squares
225' radius: 5400 squares
230' radius: 5644 squares
235' radius: 5892 squares
240' radius: 6144 squares
245' radius: 6404 squares
250' radius: 6668 squares
255' radius: 6928 squares
260' radius: 7180 squares
265' radius: 7420 squares
270' radius: 7648 squares
275' radius: 7868 squares
280' radius: 8076 squares
285' radius: 8272 squares
290' radius: 8460 squares
295' radius: 8636 squares
300' radius: 8800 squares


Some examples:
40' radius: 172 squares
80' radius: 684 squares
300' radius: 8800 squares

/cevah


Curse Terrain is... terrifying. Even for the Lesser version.


Derklord wrote:
*Khan* wrote:

What you need is Stone Call. No save, No SR. Just 2d6 dm. in a 40’ft radius leaving difficult terrain to prevent the army to run away quickly while you kill them.

Beef it up with metamagics as you like. Done. Army is gone, only some commanders left to cleane up.
2d6 doesn't reliably kill "a reasonable level 1 character". 1st level Warrior with NPC array should have 10-11 HP.

I thought that getting your first hitdie maxed was a PC thing?


That's a good question, actually. A lot of NPCs in Paizo books (e.g. everyone in the NPC Codex and Villain Codex) have their first HD maximised, but many don't.
Enemies seem to have non-maxed HD more often than not, though, which would be 5-6 HP. For that, a single Stone Call would kill 83.33% of 5HP and 72.22% of 6HP enemies in the area.


It's too small for the OP's purposes, but some day I'll get around to casting burning sands with the burning amplification feat. 20' radius, likely lethal to low level enemies - and just a first level spell.

Sovereign Court

Unfortunately Burning Sands + Burning Amplification doesn't work. Burning Sands doesn't have an attack roll or a saving throw and the last line of Burning Amp says it has no effect if it doesn't have one of those.
I think the only time I have successfully used Burning Sands was on my Pirate Druid to slow (and damage) a couple of mindless crab swarms. Every other time the enemies got out of the zone before taking damage.

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