How much gear is too much

[Tronath Colastar]

So I am making a level 1 character for a new game and would like to hear what you all think is too much mundane gear on one person.
The character has strength of 14 so light load is 0-58 medium is 59–116 and heavy is 117–175
It is all the 10 lbs items that should not fit in a backpack are why I am bringing this up. And any advice on how to bring all of this stuff along you might have. The adventer starts in a city and is old dungeon crawling inside the city.
here is the gear layout

60 gold to start
10 for leather armor 15 lbs
2 for spear 6 lbs
whetstone 2 cp 1 lbs
spear thrower 1 gp 1 lbs
sledge 1 gp 10 lbs
shovel 2 gp
saw 4 cp 2 lbs
ear trumpet 5 gp 2 lbs
crowbar 2 gp 5 lbs
collapsible plank 4 sp 10 lbs,
bear trap 2 gp 10 lbs
Vermin repellent 5 gp
2 chalk 2 cp
2 tourch 2 cp 2 lbs
backpack 2 gp 2 lbs
rope 50 feet 1 gp 10 lbs
sack 1 sp 1/2 lbs 4 cubic feet
folding pole 2 sp 10 lbs
water skin 1 gp 4 lbs
block and tackle 5 gp 5 lbs
3 piton 3 sp 1.5 lbs
104.02 lbs used

inn stay 2 nights good 4 gp
three days common meals 9 sp
meels 10 gold 30 lbs at inn
55 gp used

[Java Man]

A mule, pack saddle and 10 days of feed is 13.5 gp. See if any of the other PCs will split that cost with you.

[Temperans]

Well I dont think the spear thrower will help unless you change the Spear for a Shortspear, based on how its worded.

You can replace replace the torches for 1 oil lantern and 1 pint of oil, this will cost 2 sp instead of 2 cp, but its an extra 4 hour of light. for 5 gp more you can make the lantern waterproof.

I dont think you need a bear trap or the ear trumpet, they are useful but circumstantial.

Don't forget flint and steel to light fires.

Finally don't forget to look at kits as they might lower the price/weight of items to not be a burden.

* As far as whether its too much it really depends on whether you will be able to return to the city. If not then its better to be over prepared even if it takes you to medium encumbrance (baring any class feature that requires you to have light encumbrance). You could mitigate the weight issue by getting a carrying capacity trait, or by getting the well provisioned adventurer trait (but it wont have everything you listed).

[zza ni]

i would change the crowbar & pitons with kunai. save room and actions to get them, as weapons once you have bab +1 you can draw them with the same action as moving. 3 of them cost 6 gp and weigh 6 lb. (2 gp & lb per kunai)

[deuxhero]

If it's within capacity and you can afford it, it isn't too much. I'd say some of your gear choice is questionable though.

Even in an urban campaign you'll likely want some rations. If nothing else, it's useful for interacting with certain types of enemy. Stealthy (or otherwise content to remain beyond reach) enemies can be lured out with food. Cowardly humanoid enemies like kobolds or goblins can be bribed with it. You might even throw a thing of salted meat to distract a guard dog or other carnivore.

Temperans wrote:

You can replace replace the torches for 1 oil lantern and 1 pint of oil, this will cost 2 sp instead of 2 cp, but its an extra 4 hour of light. for 5 gp more you can make the lantern waterproof.

Don't stop at just one thing of oil. Take a bunch. Not for lighting stuff up, but for throwing at swarms.

[Heather 540]

What class are you? If you can cast Spark, you don't need the Flint to start fires. If you can cast Create Water, you can use a smaller water container. You didn't list any other weapons so I'm assuming the Spear is your main go-to and you'll be using it as a Ranged weapon. You should probably get a backup weapon for melee. A quarterstaff is free and lighter than a club. Or you could go with a dagger or kunai as they both have 2 damage types as opposed to the staff's one. As zza ni mentioned, if you go with a kunai you probably won't need the crowbar and pistons. And as deuxhero mentioned, packets of oil can make a decent weapon against swarms.

[avr]

A collapsible plank and a folding pole seem odd to have when you're likely to have that spear in hand by default and have a rope in your pack. At most I'd have one of the two, probably neither. On a similar subject, a long spear is better than a normal spear in situations where you have room to use either, and a dagger is a useful tool/emergency backup.

A sledgehammer seems excessive and given you have weight problems should probably go. At most get a normal hammer to help put in pitons.

Caltrops are probably more useful than a bear trap. A wire saw may be more useful, certainly easier to carry than a normal saw.

[Lucy_Valentine]

After my first ever game of PFS, I basically did this same thing - I bought a whole ton of dungeoneering stuff because being prepared is good! And I've basically used none of it except the whetstone, and even that I forget more than half the time. Now, that is partly because it's PFS and therefore not very dungeon-focussed, but still it was a waste. In order to be worth buying, a tool or item needs to
1) address a problem that is actually going to come up
2) in a way that you cannot address with other gear you have or without gear
3) while also being light enough not to compromise your load limit
4) and without compromising your combat ability.

I'm going to address point 4) first: frequently the penalty for failing at combat is death. But the penalty for failing at non-combat is usually not death. I mean, if your GM is particularly brutal about falling into spiked pits that becomes less true, but usually combat is more lethal. As such, if you're compromising combat to gain minor non-combat buffs, then your prioritisation is probably off.
That in mind, you have picked leather armour. But there are other light armours that offer more protection. So I am kind of dubious about using leather instead of one of those. I'd start with studded leather at least.
Also, weapons: You have a spear. And... torches? So you have one shot at range, and if you use it you have no melee (unless you have improved unarmed strike). I'd say you need more weapons more than you need most of these tools. I suggest at least a dagger and a sling. Maybe a throwable blunt thing too - a light hammer can also hammer pitons in. That kunai suggestion for replacing a crowbar isn't a bad shout either.
I am really curious about your reasons for the spear.

Now, point 3)
You've picked light armour. Taking light armour only makes sense if you're aiming for a Light load. That's fine - I prefer light load fast moving characters myself - but it does mean juggling weights. You need to get the stuff your character has on their person down to their light load limit, because otherwise you compromised AC for no reason. If that means carrying less stuff, do it. If it means getting someone else to carry your bag of stuff, or getting a mule, that works too. From a character sheet management perspective, I personally found it easier to have a sheet for "on my character's person" and a separate one for "on the mule" (or wherever else it was).

So with regard to the specific stuff, I'm gonna be brutal, exactly as I would be with my own equipment selections these days:
* whetstone - this is genuinely useful as long as you remember it
* spear thrower - no, for two reasons. First that you don't have ammunition for it. Second, think about the action cost of using this. You have to engage an encounter, at ranges where you're getting serious negatives. Then you have to draw the spear-thrower and get it ready, and draw the ammunition. This misses the main advantage of throwing weapons, which is having them in hand to use at a moment's notice. Then you have to throw and reload in round 2. Given the range increments involved, you're probably in melee by the time you're ready to use it. If you aren't, it's only because melee is a bad idea, in which case you're better off with a sling or a bow because the overal package is lighter (and cheaper for a sling).
* sledgehammer - No. 10 lbs is the same as the weight difference between leather and studded leather. In the unlikely event that someone needs one of these, it certainly isn't you who should be carrying it. Note that you specifically don't need it for hammering in pitons, and any mechanical value it has is purely GM fiat.
* shovel - we literally needed one last week in a non-PF campaign I'm playing, but that's the first time it's come up in about fifteen years of gaming. If you can get someone else to carry it, sure. But why even spend the money when you haven't bought better armour?
* saw - only if you can get someone else to carry it. You can get bladed weapons modified to have a "saw back" and therefore act as saws, so that's an option too.
* ear trumpet - try and get someone else to buy this rather than buying it yourself. 5gp is actually quite a lot for a starting character. Maybe leave it until you've done a few jobs and have more cash.
* crowbar - It has a specific and potentially useful bonus, which is a good thing. But you are definitely not the person who should be carrying 5lb items. Also that kunai suggestion was a good one.
* collapsible plank - it's a neat idea, but what situation is a ten foot folding plan going to solve that you couldn't also solve with a bit of rope and some pitons?
* bear trap - is your GM likely to have monsters pursue you? If so, this might actually be worthwhile. But you can't really afford the weight, so my advice is that you do not buy this now, but consider getting it later if a) situations come up in which it would be useful and b) you can get someone else to carry it.
* Vermin repellent - I have this as a ubiquitous pre-dungeon buff on characters who can afford it. I'm not sure it's worth the cash for a starting character, but I'm not going to call it bad.
* 2 chalk - weightless, so yes
* 2 torches - the utility of torches is very dependant on your build and the rest of the party. In order to work as a light source, somebody has to have a hand free. And in order to be valuable, the Light cantrip needs to not be available. Sure, you can try and use them as weapons, but if you're swinging a torch at a swarm and trying to kill it with one fire damage at a time, you'd probably have been better off with lamp oil. So maybe get some of that as well (or instead, if you can light it at range).
* backpack - a masterwork backpack has some utility because it marginally increases carry capacity. But a normal backpack is only useful if your GM insists you need a bag to put your stuff in. But if you're on a light load, you probably don't have enough stuff to need a bag. So actually, you probably don't need this.
* rope 50 feet - rope is generally pretty useful. Consider a climbing kit, and also get someone else to carry it. Switch to silk when you can afford it.
* sack - see backpack. Though, if you have a mule or a heavy-load friend, having some sacks is not a problem.
* folding pole - what do you plan to do with this that you can't do with a spear?
* water skin - from a practical standpoint, I do like it when characters carry water. For ultra weight saving, consider a canteen. But also consider how much water you actually need - check for Create Water in the party and talk to the GM about how much attention they're going to pay to characters getting thirsty.
* block and tackle - this is probably never going to come up, and even if it does it likely isn't going to be before your first payday
* 3 pitons - these have multiple purposes and are therefore a pretty good pick, though not worth going into medium load for. Check if someone else in the party has bought them already though, some people buy climbing kits by habit.

The summary is, as a light load character, you really have to be brutal about only carrying the things you need. And as a starting character, you have to be brutal about not spending money you don't need to spend. Also, do combat stuff first, then buy other stuff afterward.

[pad300]

Upgrade the spear to either a longspear or a morningstar. (better damage, and either reach or versatility)
Add a cestus as a backup weapon. (HAVE a backup weapon. Cestus is about the best choice.)
Wouldn't take a spear thrower as a ranged weapon. A sling is the cheap alternative; you don't have money for a bow.
Presumably you can't use a shield, otherwise you'd have one (and if you can and choose the morningstar over the longspear, get one).

Unless you have a plan for them specifically (for example, we know we have to force our way into the sewer, and a block and tackle will let us lift the grating at location Y). I'd skip the sledge, crowbar, collapsible plank, shovel, block and tackle, piton, saw and bear trap.

The kunai suggestion is a good one (that I plan on remembering).
Spread it around your party. 4 people with Kunai's instead of daggers for utility, gives you a set of 4 pitons to climb a 12 ft wall... Nor sure it is worth it at lvl 1,but you could get the sawback sword modification for the Kunai (+5gp), and then it could be a saw as well.

At this point, you have probably saved enough money to upgrade the torches to a miner's lantern and some oil. Another way to spend the money saved would be an upgrade to parade armor.

I would also have a ration or 2 with you. Getting stuck somewhere for a day or 2 isn't uncommon; relying on inns for meals can be a bad idea.

[Temperans]

About rations, getting some Wandermeal would be good. It costs 1 cp & weights 1/2 lb.

I would replace 1/2 to 3/4 of all rations for Wandermeal. Ex: 2 days of rations becomes 3 days with wondermeal, 4 days becomes 6/7, 6 days becomes 9/10, etc.

[Tronath Colastar]

I thank everyone for your input and I now understand i should make my build a bit more clear. First off i will be playing in mummy's mask. and told not to put stuff on a mule at this point, so i am guessing no overland travel for a bit. The next point is I have gotten burnt out on powerful characters and the class i am playing is commoner and i have gotten the gm to approve it. it is 15 point buy and i am trying to keep my stats as even but still functional as possible. all they while trying to find out when the other players find out i am a commoner. (note this is going to be a party of 4 or 5, and this group makes party's of 3 that steamroll things without talking about who is playing what class beforehand. so even with a commoner things will work out)
race human
stats are str 14, dex 14, con 13, int 13, wis 12, cha 10
feats are fast learner(to get both +1hp and +1 skill point) and improvisation
losing human skill points for Comprehensive Education to get all knowledge skills as class.(with my low skill points it is worth it as a trade to me)
traits blood of pharo for +1 will, +1 knowledge nobility and make it class. and Green Blood picking up create water

For my commoner one simple weapon i picked spear. I know long spear is also a good option but the group does not do well with reach and all the changes to ac that has. Also picked a 2 handed weapon as stats are low and need the extra damage, and i cant use a shield anyway.

For armor as a commoner is not proficient in any I chose one that has no armor check penalty and is in my price range

For gold my gm said commoner gets same money as monk so 1d6x10 I had him roll as i am making this character at home and he got a 6.

Now to go through the gear as you guys have done
spear thrower- I missed the short spear and not normal spear bit, so this is gone now.

sledgehammer-a draw for having it other then breaking things and putting pitons in things is it can be used as a makeshift earthbreaker and as I am proficient in only one simple weapon it is a nice backup that the other players wont question why I have the -4 non proficiency penalty.

Shovel- as we are in Osirion i feel there will be a fair amount of sand and having a shovel would be helpful.

Saw- it was 2 copper and only 2 lbs and might be useful i have no stronger reason then that.

Bear trap- idea is to set it in an area when we dungeon crawl and not to carry it around. also we have never played with it as a group so thought it would be fun. I do not plan on having it on my pack when we know combat is possible. freeing up the weight of having to carry it.

Ear trumpet-fair point, 5 gold does go a long way at level 1, will toss it.

Crowbar/kunai-I did not think of kunai, and if the dm says it fits in while still being in Osirion then i will go for it.

vermin repellent- Osirion and swarms of bugs come to mind and as a commoner i dont want to be targeted at level 1 when i think combat might happen.

torches- just in case no one else thinks of grabbing another light source when they make a character. will be the first thing to go depending on party.

Collapsible plank-it was suggested in the players guide for mummys mask so i thought why not, another item this group never uses and would be fun to see play. and can set aside as it is not something that should be needed in one action, and would not be a huge loss if stolen or destroyed.

backpack-I would go for masterwork backpack if it was not 50 gold, and will do so at first chance. but just something to keep stuff in.

Folding pole-fair point i do have a spear, only difference is how far they can poke. I will toss out.

rope- always have to have rope. as for climbing kit good idea but 80 gold.

Block and tackle-felt like a fun idea. might toss or keep depending on what else i could buy with that money.

water skin-just something to put water in. i do like the canteen idea but as a group we ignore any damage to gear. We dont see sunder on the player or dm side of things. so my water skin should be safe.

Pitons- at a price of 1 silver and .5 lbs vs 2 gold and 2 lbs for a kunai. at level 1 i will stick with pitons, and move on to kunai if available when we get money. Also i feel i need it to use block and tackle if we are in a stoney area.

So tossing out spear thrower, ear trumpet, and folding pole. that frees up 13 lbs and 6.2 gold.
with crowbar being replaced with kunai at same gold cost but 3 lbs lighter so 16 lbs of savings.
Tactic when not expecting combat but carrying everything else. drop backpack be it move, standard or full round.
Tactic when expecting combat in a dungeon crawl. set bear trap, put aside collapsible plank and block and tackle to free up 25lbs more, putting me into light load of 58lbs while using 56.52 lbs. not much wiggle room but it works for level one. and i can still toss torches out.

I know this is a strange build, but i am having fun even if it is just building it. Thank you once more.

[Cevah]

A number of items you list are for speeding up exploration where there is no particular need for speed. For example: block and tackel -- this will help tear down a pile of stones, or open a door, but you can do these things without the tool at a cost of time. Folding Plank -- If your acrobatics is not negative, you can take-10 to jump 10', avoiding the need for the plank.

Light in general: between low level vision, dark vision, and the light cantrip, having a light source may be overrated. Sunrods, however, do have uses, and lamp & oil is more efficient to use for light.

Rope" is the exception. You will encounter the need for rope is most campaigns. Use it for tying up captives, and for climbing.

I suggest you read Good & Cheap: Core Equipment Everyone Should Have and Good & Cheap II: Going Beyond the Core Rule Book for some good advice for starting equipment. Later, when you have cash (3185 gp), read The Handy Haversack Pack. [All links also found on the Guide to the Guides.]

/cevah

[Anguish]

Hmmmm. I don't know why it only now occurs to me, but the game has... bags/sacks.

As in, you can put your heavier, less-essential items in a bag or two, which your carry. If/when combat happens, your character can drop the bag(s) as a free action, and is no longer encumbered. Sure, there's a risk that you might need to run away from a fight and leave gear behind, but again, put non-essentials in the bags. And you'll probably get the stuff back when you return to the area. As long as you're not trying to put impractical things in a bag, you're probably okay.

[huggin]

Lucy_Valentine really gave some good advice

Ask your GM how much can a guard dog carry and see if party is willing to split cost. I would imagine a large dog can carry some pitons or crowbar or extra water skins. A trained dog can also track

What is rest of party bringing? A pet peeve for me is the party doesn't talk about this before starting out. No one gets rope because they think someone else will bring rope or everyone brings rope because they think no one else will

Collapsible plank has a weight limit. If I remember 250 pounds is the most it can support. Check to see if anyone is over that. Some party members might be too heavy

I am someone who likes to be prepared and in the past I bring along 2 pack mules fully loaded with gear just in case. Most of the time did I need it? No I didn't however at times it great that I did
There is a chance that gear might save your party or be very useful but your probably the wrong person

What I done in the past when I has medium or higher load I give the GM a list of my gear with an asterisk nest to any item I will drop if I need to run away. What items are you prepared to drop and lose forever?
If you cant afford to lose a item then perhaps you shouldn't be the one carrying it

[Cevah]

Get this kind of dog. Cup optional.

/cevah

[Archimedes The Great]

"Too much" is whatever you determine to be an unreasonable amount. Which requires one to be honest with themselves, when determining what kind of imagery they want to envision in their games.

At my tables, If it doesn't fit into a backpack or you don't have a magical bag to contain it then I'll just say you can't carry it.

I have a character that has a TON of mundane equipment. But these are things like, marble, fishing wire, bell, whistle, threat and needle, mirror, whetstone, flint and tinder, magnet... But you get the picture,all that stuff is pretty minuscule in weight, but all easily fits into a reasonable pack suited for adventuring.

I'd say that your original gear list is pretty viable (maybe with exception for one collapse-able thing). But by no means, should a barbarian with 18 strength reason "but i can carry up to 303 pounds" to justify carrying a sword, shield, sledgehammer, bag of nails, toolbox, 50 pounds of lumber, 50 bounds of large stones, two small children, and bucket of gardening soil, 3 large masterwork great-clubs from a giant, and 22000 pieces of gold.

If you are a fighter who specializes with throwing weapons, sure it's realistic to say that you have some sort of quiver or pack designed to hold multiple javelins (5-6 ish), but you certainly are not going to be carrying 26.

Another thing that I do in my campaigns... I include weight values of money. Carry what you can, stash it somewhere, or find a bank or NPC you can trust it with.
I also rule that anything specifically not stashed in a pack or container is free game to be targeted. You want a few potions or scrolls hanging at your waist for ease of access (to avoid using an action to retrieve)? Fine, but if Mr. Orc is having trouble hitting your AC, don't get upset if he takes a swing or a swipe for your little exposed bag of goodies.