See, the biggest problem with the Scout is as Temperans mentioned, it would really need Charging Hurler for how the build works, and CH wouldn't work with a Startoss Comet since it's specifically a Standard action, and it's a lot of feat investment on all ends.
Opening Volley only applies to the first round of combat, and Parting Shot can only be done once per combat. So they're both a lot of investment for 1 move.
In addition, Fast Getaway can only be reliably popped on a Sneak Attack or sleight of hand, and due to action economy wouldn't be useable after a charge, so I would need to rely on my teammates to flank with me, as I've got no other methods to get a sneak off. My first thought was Feinting but it only applies to your next melee attack, so my own Disruptive Counter or Opportune Parry and Riposte would burn that before a situation arose where I could use a move action. I hoped the Steal maneuver used sleight of hand, as that would be a good action to part on, but it doesn't unless you have Signature Skill (Sleight of Hand), which is more feat reliance, or else would need 5 levels of U Rogue.
So all in all, Scout without CH would be a lot of getting stuck up in melee with stuff. For the feat investment, I'd rather go Combat Reflexes + Signature Deed in order to punish anyone who gets up with multiple Disrupting Counters if they manage to full attack me, or have Pounce, etc.
Alright, so threw everything else off tha table, started from scratch with Cabbage's framework.
Going pure Flying Blade. After the first 11 levels needing to be Swash there's not a lot of reason to multiclass out that late in the game. Forgoing Ricochet Toss in favor of a Blinkback Belt because it's essential spend 2 feats for +1 damage and using one dagger, or get the brlt and just use 1-4 +1 Agile Daggers with up to +4 extra damage from the replaced feats. And fits the original concept a little better.
Feats by chain.
- Point-Blank Shot*
- Weapon Focus (Dagger)*
*Universally needed for basically every feat in build
- Quick Draw
- Startoss Style
- Startoss Comet
- Startoss Shower
- Weapon Specialization (Dagger)
- Point-Blank Master
- Greater Weapon Specialization (Dagger)
- Combat Reflexes
- Signature Deed (Disrupting Counter)
A few maybe feats:
- Precise Shot (It's a tax, and depending on team comp may not be necessary)
- Greater Weapon Focus (Dagger)
- Combat Expertise
- Improved Steal (It actually may just be better to make steals and provoke, letting me pop a Disrupting Counter on my own turn and nerfing the opponent until the end of their turn)
- Signature Deed (Bleeding Wound)
- Martial Focus (Thrown)
- Advanced Weapon Training (Focused Weapon)
EDIT: It's important to note, the other reason for Blinkback and a bunch of Agile's is to have one good dagger always in the "off-hand" (there isn't really an off-hand if you're only making 1 attack). So remain armed with the good dagger, likely Agile with something that boosts AoO for the Disrupting Counters, though if a free feat is available Slashing Grace can work on the counter dagger. Then the free hand only ever quick draws the belt daggers for tossing, and since it's the blinkback not returning or ricochet, it returns to the belt not to the hand, meaning the off-hand is still free to use the good dagger with all the various free-hand needed Swash abilities.
I would think quick draw, a prerequisite for richochet toss, would obviate the need to hold two daggers since you can always draw another as a free action.
Darn it. I did overlook base Startoss Style... >_> Maybe I'm tired?
I do want a solid melee opportunity dagger and a set of at least 2 thrown daggers (you never know when an enemy will Snatch Arrows) and the Blinkback. May need Quick Stow so that during an escape attempt to get out of melee (better to provoke and Disruptive Counter than to waste with a Withdraw, though if it becomes frequent Mobility may be a wise feat) can attack with the opportunity dagger and stow it as part of the move away, then Quick Draw Startoss a throwing dagger once the distance is in place.
The downside... I got my Startoss off, but then I'm unarmed. I don't think you can Quick Draw when it isn't your turn without a special ability. And can only Quick Stow as part of a move action. So if I draw the melee dagger at the end of my turn for doing Disruptive Counters, I have to use a move action to put it away, or move, which locks down my mobility hard with this 2-dagger style of play. :/
Opening Volley doesn't care for when you use it. It function, "Whenever you deal damage with a ranged attack". It is less reliable than G.W. Focus, I wont deny it.
My bad, I was thinking the Starfinder version. My main active game atm is Starfinder, so stumbling is mildly expected, but still my own mistake.
I don't think Sharding works with the "AoE" part of startoss, but should work fine with the "add more damage" part of it. But with a 10' range increment, you will not find many opportunities to hit a lot of people with a startoss chain anyway.
Some of these questions about "what endgame weapon do I want?" can be answered in actually figuring out how the character plays, however.
Sharding
"...The duplicate gains a range increment of 10 feet for this purpose, but uses the same proficiency and otherwise functions the same as the original weapon. The duplicate vanishes after hitting or missing its target."
The duplicate only get a 10ft increment, regardless of my being a Flying Blade. And I don't think it would Startoss because it's a "special ranged attack with the weapon in place of any melee attack." Startoss isn't a melee attack, so even if you wanted to fudge the idea of it not vanishing after hitting the first target, it can't be used.
Called is a swift action, do you have anything using that?
Only like every other class feature? Most notably, the two main defensive abilities (Opportune Parry and Ripost, and Charmed Life) heavily use immediate actions.
Swashbucklers/Flying Blades have a lot of Swift Actions to consider, including deeds like Subtle Throw, Precise Strike/Throw, and a few others that the Flying Blade swaps out like Kip Up, and Menacing Swordplay.
But yes, beyond that Called has some other major problems. Flying Blade's upper limit on range with Startoss is looking at 200 ft. Not that it'll happen horribly often, but it could.
Additionally, since a Swift Action can't be done if it isn't your turn, there's a heavy chance of being caught with my pants down after a throw. That's going to become at least one round without attack or without access to to Startoss/Disrupting Counter as you're either weaponless, or since Called returns to your hand, weilding two weapons and nerfing most of your own abilities.
Blinkback + Quick Draw/Stow works better for action economy and short of really bad choices you won't be caught pants down. Blinkback returns to the belt, leaving the hand free for drawing another weapon if it's needed. Quick Stow also allows for good steals (a Steal becomes a provoke and a Disrupting Counter on my own turn, so the counter happens, they get to swing at me, then my steal goes off and the item I take gets stowed as the same action, leaving the hand free).
Finally, as said I'd rather have a dedicated melee dagger with enchantment like Agile + Fortuitous to get double attacks off once a round with their opportunity attacks. Since melee is the one time the +6 from Startoss isn't going to apply the melee dagger is going to need every advantage it can get.
Since melee is the one time the +6 from Startoss isn't going to apply the melee dagger is going to need every advantage it can get.
Wait, what? Startoss Style's damage bonus is on all damage rolls.
Since melee is the one time the +6 from Startoss isn't going to apply the melee dagger is going to need every advantage it can get.Wait, what? Startoss Style's damage bonus is on all damage rolls.
*rereads the feat* ... How is this feat the key to the build, and yet I keep getting stuff about it wrong? Maybe because it's just Comet and Shower that I keep re-reading.
My bad. Still want the melee dagger to have unique melee boosts to get he most out of AoOs.
In the Campaign Clarifications for PFS, the damage bonus from Startoss is ranged attacks only. That might have been what you were thinking of.
Page 15—The Startoss Style feat's bonus on damage rolls applies when making ranged weapon attacks with thrown weapons, not when making melee weapon attacks with them.
Wow. It's like they're raging a war against martial characters with one free hand!
I'm probably missing something, but how can you take and use Signature Deed without a Gunslinger level?
Panache counts as Grit for all purposes.
From the ACG:
The gunslinger’s grit and the swashbuckler’s panache represent two paths to gain access to the same heroic pool. Characters with both grit and panache class features combine the two resources into a larger pool of both grit points and panache points.
For the purposes of feat prerequisites, a character with the panache class feature satisfies the prerequisites as if she were a grit user, and vice versa. Swashbuckler levels stack with gunslinger levels for the purpose of satisfying Signature Deed’s level requirement. For feats, magic items, and other effects, a panache user can spend and gain panache points in place of grit points, and vice versa.
I like the Fkying Blade archtype for Swashbucklers, which revolves around daggers or starknives. The starknife has a dozen feats like Star of Desna and Slashing Grace which can apply, but I much prefer the dagger.
So as a human, how far can the dagger be pushed as a weapon? Obviously not as far as the starknife, but it's gotta be respectable.
Enchant the hell out of the dagger, make it sawbladded or wjatever the thing is that deals 1 bleed damage,and master work and a special material my personal preference being blood crystal. Take the knife master rogue archetype, and take feats and talents that focus on boosting light weapons and throw in finesse some where in there. I would reccomend throat slicer too if your looking for a cou de gra as well as deadly finish if you think youll be able to pull of bringing an enemy below zero. Thats what i would do. Im some what new to pathfinder so that might be terrible advice or there may be better ways to go about it but thats my two cents
thanks for the link, PossibleCabbage. still having issue with how to apply it to a build i'm working on. i'm using hero lab and can't seem to find a way to apply it to a character, much less finding it in the hero lab database. any ideas on what i'm doing wrong?i can't seem to find Divine Obedience anywhere. is it a feat, trait, or what?It's actually Deific Obedience, here's the Pharasma Version.
If you are having trouble finding and adding the feat to the character, then it is an issue with the "Hero Settings" and allowed sources you have checked. If it is an issue with not being able to apply the bonuses (but you other have and can apply the feat), then you just need to go to the "Play" tab and make sure the feat is checked "on". Specifically "Deific Obedience performed".
found it and got it functional, thanks DEATHLESS.
Anytime. I use Herolab as well. It is a very handy program.
Instead of sharding or blinkback how about Dagger of Doubling ?
Instead of sharding or blinkback how about Dagger of Doubling ?
A good find, but ultimately no good. You've got to hold the main dagger, so when you double it both hands are occupied, and thus you no longer qualify to use Startoss Style, or other free hand abilities like Slashing Grace.