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Does anyone else find this odd?
Perfect Strike (Combat)
When wielding a monk weapon, your attacks can be extremely precise.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Wis 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8.
Benefit: You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll (thus a failed attack roll ruins the attempt). You must use one of the following weapons to make the attack: kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, and siangham. You can roll your attack roll twice and take the higher result. If one of these rolls is a critical threat, the other roll is used as your confirmation roll (your choice if they are both critical threats). You may attempt a perfect attack once per day for every four levels you have attained (but see Special), and no more than once per round.
Special: A weapon master monk or zen archer monk receives Perfect Strike as a bonus feat at 1st level, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. A monk may attempt an perfect strike attack a number of times per day equal to his monk level, plus one more time per day for every four levels he has in classes other than monk.
Can I use Perfect Strike with unarmed strikes?
As written, you can only use the feat with the specific weapons mentioned in the feat description.
So why does the feat have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, if you can't actually use it with unarmed strikes?
Because the feat is intended to be a cool thing that monks can do, and monks get Improved Unarmed Strike automatically (barring an archetype that replaces that feat), so having Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite means it's easy for monks to learn Perfect Strike but more difficult for other classes. The prerequisite could have been "monk level X," but that would mean that only monks could take the feat (prohibiting even other martial arts classes or archetypes). Note that the zen archer archetype allows you to use the feat with a bow, which means there's a precedent for creating an unarmed-combat archetype that modifies the feat for use with other weapons.
I mean, this one is a head-scratcher. Monks are unarmed combat specialists . . . yet this feat only benefits armed monks. And anyone else who uses a kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, or siangham, while having Improved Unarmed Strike, a Dex 13, a Wis 13, and a BAB of +8 or greater.
What is the problem with a monk's unarmed strikes? We cannot they seem to get any good things . . . but if you aren't a monk, then sure, we'll hand out these +2 bonuses to hit and damage like candy (aka, brawling armor property).
What are your thoughts and opinions?
Master Arminas
just wait, they will do something for the monk I have faith.
Obviously, Monks are not strictly unarmed specialists.
I've only ever had this on a weapon master archetype monk who does indeed use a quarterstaff. I would like to see it opened up to the other monk weapons and possibly to any weapon that particular monk could flurry with (thus adding any weapon with the 'ki focus' property as well) or, if he happened to be a sohei, whatever group the sohei had chosen.
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It's not odd, IMO it's just another symptom of the fear of the mighty 2d10. "Roll twice to hit a few time a day? Sure, that sounds fine for normal weapons, but a level 20 monk does 2d10 damage unarmed, that's more than a GREAT SWORD!"
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Monks aren't allowed to have nice things. I don't think anyone is surprised anymore.
I don´t understand this either,nor do I get the wierd love affair Paizo has with Archery.There must be some passionate Bow freaks in the design staff.
I mean seriously, everything(Archetypes,Feats,Magic Items)that has even remotely to do with letting arrows fly turns out great but when it comes to Flurry and Unarmed Strikes everything good gets errata'd away in a Heartbeat.
Just compare Zen Archers and regular Monks.
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I don´t understand this either,nor do I get the wierd love affair Paizo has with Archery.There must be some passionate Bow freaks in the design staff.
I mean seriously, everything(Archetypes,Feats,Magic Items)that has even remotely to do with letting arrows fly turns out great but when it comes to Flurry and Unarmed Strikes everything good gets errata'd away in a Heartbeat.Just compare Zen Archers and regular Monks.
Yup. My character in a campaign is a zen archer (level 11). My cohort is a monk/empyreal sorcerer (level 8/1) with some Qinggong abilities. The most useful thing the cohort has done so far is Scorching Ray, while the zen archer often does the most damage in the party. I should have played a straight sorcerer.
Actually, I don't understand that either. If it's supposed to be something cool Monk's could do, why doesn't that effect Unarmed Strikes?
The two answers seem to contradict themselves, but I may not be seeing something.
If it's supposed to be something cool Monk's could do, why doesn't that effect Unarmed Strikes?
Perhaps because it's supposed to be something cool that armed Monks can do?
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Remember, when you outlaw arms, only outlaws will have arms.
Well, okay. It still doesn't make much sense to me, but to each their own.
I would say that it was done this way to present different "path" options for monks and to actually differentiate those paths in meaningful ways. There are a variety of martial artist archtypes from books, movies and mythology. It only makes sense to offer real options for making "unique" monks, just like paizo has done with all the character classes. Hooray for creativity! Down with cookie cutter characters!
Actually, I don't understand that either. If it's supposed to be something cool Monk's could do, why doesn't that effect Unarmed Strikes?
The two answers seem to contradict themselves, but I may not be seeing something.
You're not missing anything, other than the developers at PF seemingly fearing that the Monk's unarmed strike base damage is brokenly good.
Removed some posts. Post civilly please.
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I don't get their reasoning that they wanted to make it easy for monks to qualify, and yet it has BAB +8 as a pre-req, so it's actually easier for a fighter to obtain it. As in, 3 whole levels sooner.
I wish there was a feat that would let you add the "monk" property to a weapon (and perhaps to Perfect Strike). When I look at the Wanderer archetype I feel like that was a missed opportunity for something cool as you get an exotic weapon proficiency, but then can't use it in a meaningful way.
I wish there was a feat that would let you add the "monk" property to a weapon (and perhaps to Perfect Strike). When I look at the Wanderer archetype I feel like that was a missed opportunity for something cool as you get an exotic weapon proficiency, but then can't use it in a meaningful way.
Monks aren't actually proficient with every weapon that has the "monk" keyword. Some of those "monk" weapons are exotic, so the Wanderer can actually use the ability in a meaningful way. But I do agree that it would be cool if there was a way to add the "monk" property to other weapons.
You all do realize that the Monk isn't specialized in unarmed combat only, right? Monk's only become "Unarmed warriors" when you make them that way.
Not all Monks fight with only fists. Hell, i can't think of any "monk" that only uses unarmed. I've only seen a mix of unarmed and weapons used.
Also the feat Perfect Strike is easily picked up by the Monk archetype "Weapon Adept" which is kinda focused on using weapons other than unarmed. It gives you Perfect Strike at Level 1.
It's meant for Weapon Adept to get early, so what if a Fighter gets it. The Fighter still has to use two feats(Improved Unarmed and Perfect Strike), has to have a 13 DEX and WIS, and still can only use the feats with the weapons listed in the feat. Which i'll add a few of you say are sub-par.
As for the crowd saying Monks don't get nice things. I have this to say:
It's easy to say such things when you ignore anything that is good for Monks or twist the wording around.
...I mean, this one is a head-scratcher. Monks are unarmed combat specialists . . . yet this feat only benefits armed monks.
The answer seems obvious to me. SlimGauge even gave a clue:
I've only ever had this on a weapon master archetype monk who does indeed use a quarterstaff.
Perfect Strike is a feat from the Advanced Player's Guide. That book also introduced two monk archetypes that rely on weapons: Weapon Adept and Zen Archer. Those are armed monks. Because they are armed monks who would rather use their weapons than unarmed strikes, they would not get much use out of Stunning Fist, which can be combined only with unarmed attacks. Paizo invented a substitute for Stunning Fist that uses weapons instead and gave it to the armed monks. Though the Zen Archer needed additional fine print to allow using Perfect Strike with a bow.
Hm, ninjaed by Brain in a Jar. I agree with him. Paizo gives monk archetypes nice things. However, they are wary about changing the core monk, which unfortunately keeps some nice things away from him.
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Actually, the Advanced Player's Guide introduced four feats that greatly resemble Stunning Fist: Elemental Fist, Perfect Strike, Punishing Kick, and Touch of Serenity. All five of these feats are restricted to once per day for every four levels the character attained and no more than once per round, except that monks gain one use per day for each monk level.
Stunning Fist has been criticized because an attempt has to pass three die rolls in order to have an effect: the Stunning Fist attempt must hit (roll d20 versus AC), must deal damage (roll damage dice more than target's damage reduction), and must bypass a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + 1/2 monk's character level + monk's Wis modifier). The substitutes have fewer obstacles.
- Stunning Fist
- Stuns for one round.
- Prerequisites: Dex 13, Wis 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8.
- Given to core monk and most archetypes.
- Delivered through unarmed strike.
- Must hit, deal damage, and exceed Fortitude save to be successful.
- Elemental Fist
- Deals 1d6 energy damage.
- Prerequisites: Con 13, Wis 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8.
- Given to Monk of the Four Winds.
- No weapon restriction mentioned.
- Must hit to be successful.
- Perfect Strike
- Roll two d20 and take the best for the attack roll.
- Prerequisites: Dex 13, Wis 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8.
- Given to Weapon Adept and Zen Archer.
- Delivered through kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, and siangham. Also bow for Zen Archer.
- Always successful.
- Punishing Kick
- Knock opponent 5 feet away or prone.
- Prerequisites: Con 13, Wis 13, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8.
- Given to Hungry Ghost.
- No weapon restriction mentioned.
- Must hit to be successful. The knocking-prone mode also must exceed Fortitude save.
- Touch of Serenity
- Attack deals no damage and bestows no other effect or condition. Target cannot cast spells or attack for one round.
- Prerequisites: Wis 18, Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8.
- Given to Monk of the Lotus.
- No weapon restriction mentioned.
- Must hit and exceed Will save to be successful.
The monk class abilities that give these feats also make the feats grow more powerful with monk level. The Flowing Monk and Sohei archetypes replace Stunning Fist with class abilities.
All five feats have prerequisites of Improved Unarmed Strike, base attack bonus +8, and some minimum attributes, one of which is Wisdom (the Wisdom 18 prerequisite for Touch of Serenity is a rare attribute prerequisite with an even number). I guess that that consistency is mostly to match Stunning Fist's prerequisites. The BAB +8 prerequisite make the feats less suitable for a monk, but it never mattered when the core monk automatically received the only choice. Improved Unarmed Strike is an obvious prerequisite for Stunning Fist.
Many players assume that Elemental Fist, Punishing Kick, and Touch of Serenity have to be delivered through unarmed strike like Stunning Fist, because of the Improved Unarmed Strike prerequisite and using "Fist" and "Kick" in the names. But the actual text doesn't say that. They do say, "the attack," which means the attempts cannot be combined with the attack rolls of a combat maneuver or spell.
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I've never quite understood why there is even such a thing as monk weapons. I like the idea of the monk but I wish they had left it more open to fit a monk order that might use weapons that are not of eastern style. I like the idea of scimitar wielding monks in a desert setting for example.
In one of my games I had Aldori Dueling Monks in Mivon. I figured the Aldori Dueling sword wasn't all the different than a temple sword. After doing this I got to thinking weapon restrictions with monk didn't seem to matter really. So I made up my own lists of weapons monks would proficient in depending where they were from.
Yeah, while the stereotypical martial enlightenment thing is asian-flavored, there's not that much reason for it to be exclusively for that. The easiest official way to solve it would probably be regional archetypes that let you use regional weapons as monk weapons or something...
Also, All of these feats are much better for monks than anyone else, even the ones that don't get extra perks from being granted by a specific archetype - Monks can use them about four times as often as anything else, since they get one use per day per level, while anything not monk only gets one per day per four levels.
Still wish the temple sword and other new monk weapons were added to the usable list for perfect strike etc., though.
As for the crowd saying Monks don't get nice things. I have this to say:
It's easy to say such things when you ignore anything that is good for Monks or twist the wording around.
*Unarmed Monks don't get nice things.*
Better? ;)
Look, here's the bottom line - This feat could have included UAS in it's "allowed" weapons, and then it would be available to armed and unarmed characters equally.
Nothing game-breaking about that.
Unfortunately, there's a serious segregation between "armed" and "unarmed" Monks where the armed Monks get unique toys (like this feat) and the unarmed Monks keep getting hit with the Nerf bat. Feats like this do nothing at all to bridge the rift.
If the Devs want Monks to be armed more often than not, maybe they should change Monk weapons so they're not the absolute worst weapon choices in the game, eh?
I wish there was a feat that would let you add the "monk" property to a weapon (and perhaps to Perfect Strike). When I look at the Wanderer archetype I feel like that was a missed opportunity for something cool as you get an exotic weapon proficiency, but then can't use it in a meaningful way.Monks aren't actually proficient with every weapon that has the "monk" keyword. Some of those "monk" weapons are exotic, so the Wanderer can actually use the ability in a meaningful way. But I do agree that it would be cool if there was a way to add the "monk" property to other weapons.
[sarcasm]Dip one level of Unarmed Fighter. They get proficiency with all monk weapons because fighters are awesome! In fact, start your build with one level of Unarmed Fighter, dip two levels of Master of Many Styles for a couple of free style feats before the wimpy monk gets them, and then go fighter again all the way to get all the special 'improve the monk' feats earlier than the monk. You can then pounce on any monk, beat the **** out of him, tear his head off and **** down the hole.
Because the game is not balanced unless fighters can beat monks at everything except wimping out and running away.[/sarcasm]
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[just kidding :)]
Perfect Strike Fix
DescriptionYour a Monk, so you autowin, AND look really cool doing it. Here's some rules stuff though.
Prereqs: Monk Level 1 or Higher, must only have levls in MONK, (including any archtypes) or Monk-related Prestige Classes, Improved Unarmed Strike (or any one other weapon related to your MONK archtype), Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, and Cha, 1 or higher
Benefit: Any attack you make automatically hits, acts as a +5 weapon (with your choice of +5 equivalent Enhancment bonuses you may chooce to switch out at any time as a non-action), overcomes DR of any and all types, and deals maximume Damage as appropriate of a 20th Level Monk of Gargantuan+ Size. Anyone with a Int and Wis of 3 or more, than can see you, is automatically Enthralled, as the spell, no save, as you just look so damn cool.
Also, make an Intimidate check, DC 1,000 + any stat you want + any modifier you want, (Monks are so persecuted, they deserve something back right), + another any number you want modifier if the image in your head is just so cool it deserves it oppossed by their Wis Check. If a creature fails this check, they drop dead (or destroyed if Undead or a Construct) after they take their next 5ft step or movement. If, for whatever reason, they do beat the Monk's check, they instead die the next time the sleep/meditate. Treat this like a Phantasmal Killer spell that affects all things, including Deity-level NPC's.
Oh, and you look extremely cool doing that, too.
[/just kidding :)]