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I am reading conflicting threads on whether or not I could ever enchant a Frying Pan. Some people seem to believe that Improvised weapons have to be spontaneous or they are no longer improvised. They are trying to say you can only use the Catch Off Guard feat if you are picking something up not carrying it. The trait Surprise Weapons says "You are skilled at fighting with objects not traditionally considered weapons" This seems to fit the flavor and form of Catch Off Guard as well.
I see improvised weapons as improvised because they are not normally considered weapons, but you are still using them. It acts as a catch all so you dont need exotic weapon proficiency chair, you can just if you choose to be really good at hitting people with chairs.
Some people are saying that improvised weapons are not weapons and thus can not be made masterwork. No masterwork broken bottle, sure, the common sense rule should be used for things like this. But a masterwork Frying Pan does exist IRL. Then there is the question of does the masterwork bonus count toward the skill or to attacking. It seems obvious to me that you would pay the masterwork weapon price if you wanted it to be a better weapon and would have the bonus be for the skill if you wanted it to be used for that. I don't see why you could choose when it is being made.
Anyone heard word of this lately. Some people in threads I have read are downright terrified of people enchanting improvised weapons. Call 'munchkin" and saying it would break the game. I am trying to make a Chef of the Gods. I know the consensus seems to be that if you dare to improve numbers you are Satan, but is it really so bad to want to pick something flavorful AND it be good? I could use a real weapon and save some feats, traits, ect so that I am not useless in combat. But that seems boring when, with significant investment I can at least be mediocre doing something awesome.
I would like to be something I can take to PFS, because even though I hate it on principle, it is the easiest benchmark to get GMs to allow it in game.. Thank you.
'Masterwork' improvised weapons are likely 'masterwork' for their non-weapon purpose. A masterwork frying pan doesn't hit any better than a non-masterwork, but it sure can fry up some eggs.
That said, there is a spell:
If that were an instantaneous spell instead of a limited duration, I would say that you could enchant the masterwork improvised weapon with a weapon enchantment.Refine Improvised Weapon
You transform an improvised weapon into an equivalent simple or martial weapon of masterwork quality. This effect does not alter the weapon's shape or appearance in any way. For example, if this spell is cast on a chair leg, a butter knife, or a pitchfork, the items function as a masterwork club, a masterwork dagger, or a masterwork trident, respectively, but the items look no different than they did before the spell was cast.
Well under permanancy it says "The GM may allow other spells to be made permanent."
Yeah, however since it's not an instantaneous effect and can be 'dispelled', I would be uncomfortable allowing to to qualify for an enchantment.
What happens if you enchant the table leg and the Refine Weapon is dispelled?
Myself, I'd treat it JUST like belts and headband do with stat bonuses. temp for first 24hr, then permanent. If it gets dispelled, it's just like taking off a belt. If dispelled, 24hrs after the spell gets put back on, the enchantment comes back.
You can make any item you want masterwork. And it doesn't actually say anywhere that you can only put weapon enchantments on weapons. (You can't put them on armor but that is a different issue).
So RAW, this is possible.
The trait Rough & Ready plus Profession (Chef), and you have yourself a Flynn Rider-bashing frying pan.
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If an improvised weapon is a object not normally used as a weapon, and a masterwork weapon is one so well designed and manufactured as a weapon that it improves on it's ability to hit, then it is really a stretch to say that masterwork object is improvised. In talking about frying pans, a masterwork frying pan is weaponized and is no longer an object that isn't intended as a weapon.
Frying pans aren't normally weapons. This one is. Other frying pans can be used as improvised weapons. This one...no.
You can make any item you want masterwork. And it doesn't actually say anywhere that you can only put weapon enchantments on weapons. (You can't put them on armor but that is a different issue).
So RAW, this is possible.
In the CRB it just says they have to be masterwork, however some people are saying that this was changed in the Equipment supplement that said that a weapon must be a masterwork weapon to be enchanted. I would be fine giving up the +1 to hit for +2 to Profession Chef. As the goal of my character is to be the greatest Chef ever. To one day prepare feasts for the gods themselves
If an improvised weapon is a object not normally used as a weapon, and a masterwork weapon is one so well designed and manufactured as a weapon that it improves on it's ability to hit, then it is really a stretch to say that masterwork object is improvised. In talking about frying pans, a masterwork frying pan is weaponized and is no longer an object that isn't intended as a weapon.
Frying pans aren't normally weapons. This one is. Other frying pans can be used as improvised weapons. This one...no.
This is the reasoning I dont get. The flavor on a lot of things, such as Surprise weapons states that you are really good at using things not normally considered weapons. A frying pan will never be considered a weapon by most people. So ya you can "catch them off guard" while your cooking in your +1 flaming frying pan as you hit them in the face with it. Then there is this contradiction when I try to use a frying pan as a weapon.
-Its not a weapon ts an improvised weapon....errr I mean improvised thing that hits stuff. Since it isnt a weapon you cant take proficiency in it you can't take weapon focus, and you cant enchant it.
-Okay then it is an improvised doohicky and Ill just take improvised weapon traits and catch off guard, ill just carrying this thing around.
-NOOOOOO, if you use it as a weapon all the time then it really isnt improvised right?
-Fine, Ill just use a greatsword or something so I can do more damage, enchant it, and use less feats.
-Thank god you have seen the errors of your munchkin ways! Thankfully this game has ways to stop you from being good at having fun.
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Standard weapons become standard weapons by people improvising unconventional weapons. I don't think that playing a character that uses a rolling pin that gets enchanted is outside the ability for the rules to cover. It just isn't standard.
There is a whole archetype built on improvised weapons. Why would it be more goofy to enchant one?
You just have to be careful that people aren't trying to pass off a masterwork 'tool' with a cost of 50gp as sufficient to qualify for enchantment instead of the normal 300gp masterwork weapon cost.
I agree with that, 100%.
Wouldn't a happy medium be just to let you decide to have it be a better weapon at +300 and let it be enchanted. Or to have it be a better cooking tool and just be +50 masterwork tool that cant be enchanted? Is using a frying pan a little goofy? Ya I guess it can be kinda goofy in a super cereal setting, but in a setting were a guy becomes a god because of a drunken bet, or any number of other odd things then it seems a lot less weird to me.
I guess in a pathfinder society game I would just have to use a real weapon, but hopefully in a home game I can have a +1 flaming frying pan that lets me cook food and bash peoples skulls in.
Semantics being what they are though I guess improvised weapons are just kinda terrible.
Fair enough, as I linked in my original post I am making a character that is optimized to be the best cook ever. I asked for advice specifically because I dont want to be a lout in combat, and have made sure that while I am great at cooking I can also cast spells with alchemy and pick up any skill slack the party may have.
With an enchanted frying pan and studied strike I will not be the greatest combatant but I will be pretty decent for someone who can take care of most skills, find and disarm traps, all while being a 6th level spell caster.
I also see how some people over blow there concept in order to take the spotlight. I am a cook, if there is a rare ingredient I might snatch some up, I might offer to cook up dragon we just killed in celebration of our victory. But jerks are jerks, and people who want the spotlight can come in any variety of "flavors" ;p
tl;dr- jerks are jerks, I just want to make some jerky
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'Masterwork' improvised weapons are likely 'masterwork' for their non-weapon purpose. A masterwork frying pan doesn't hit any better than a non-masterwork, but it sure can fry up some eggs.
Why wouldn't my Adamantine Frying Pan hit people in the face as effectively as my Adamantine Hammer? Both made by the same smith, same materials, similar shapes and used with the same purpose. The only thing making that Pan "improvised" is because nobody goes to school to learn how to fight with one, not because it can't be used as one.
If I can enchant the big flat head of a warhammer, I see no reason to say I can't enchant the big flat head of of a cooking pan.
Fried eggs, yes. All others would cook too fast.
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Fried eggs, yes. All others would cook too fast.
Charred eggs.
I doubt eggs will have any hardness and more than 1 hp. And I think they are vulnerable to fire.If they are not vulnerable you have a 5/6 chance every round of burning them (roll of 2+ on the d6).
AFAIK you can't fry eggs in 6 seconds, so it very hard to be successful in frying them.
;-)
We had a Swashbuckler who used a +1 holy shovel :)
He recognized his rapier was ineffective in a fight against skelletons, so he took the dead gravediggers shovel (at this time a normal shovel).
After he "saved the day" with this action he took the shovel with him "just in case" and later put the enchantments on it.
If an improvised weapon is a object not normally used as a weapon, and a masterwork weapon is one so well designed and manufactured as a weapon that it improves on it's ability to hit, then it is really a stretch to say that masterwork object is improvised. In talking about frying pans, a masterwork frying pan is weaponized and is no longer an object that isn't intended as a weapon.
Frying pans aren't normally weapons. This one is. Other frying pans can be used as improvised weapons. This one...no.
I would say that you can make a frying pan that gets the masterwork bonus as a weapon (for example, longer handle, balanced, reenforced rim) but is still a frying pan (not normally intended to be a weapon). You still get the penalty for improvised weapon, but it is offset (a little) by the masterwork quality.
EDIT: You would have to spend 300gp for the masterwork quality, rather then the (75gp?) for a masterwork tool.
You just have to be careful that people aren't trying to pass off a masterwork 'tool' with a cost of 50gp as sufficient to qualify for enchantment instead of the normal 300gp masterwork weapon cost.
Don't we let people enchant 150gp shields as weapons? If the tool has bad weapon stats in the first place, paying 2050gp instead of 2300gp is a pretty poor trade-off.
You just have to be careful that people aren't trying to pass off a masterwork 'tool' with a cost of 50gp as sufficient to qualify for enchantment instead of the normal 300gp masterwork weapon cost.Don't we let people enchant 150gp shields as weapons? If the tool has bad weapon stats in the first place, paying 2050gp instead of 2300gp is a pretty poor trade-off.
If you spend 150gp to masterwork a shield, it does NOT count as a +1 enhancement bonus to attack.
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A mithral frying pan is already masterwork, bypasses DR-silver and it's non-stick which makes it even sweeter. I'm actually surprised it hasn't been mentioned thus far.
If you spend 150gp to masterwork a shield, it does NOT count as a +1 enhancement bonus to attack.
But as soon as you buy the magical +1 weapon enhancement for it, you get that automatically.
The trait Rough & Ready plus Profession (Chef), and you have yourself a Flynn Rider-bashing frying pan.
or samwise gamgee from lotr ('I think I'm getting the hang of this!') ... which came out first
XD
You know what? Pay +350gp and it's both masterwork tool and masterwork weapon.
As far as goofy weapons I'm all for it, I had a Half-Orc Barbarian that used a large sized bag of holding as his favorite 'weapon'...