Martial v. Caster disparity, the Legendary debate

[Kitsune Kune]

So, this debate is not actually as legendary as I made it sound. The only question I have, is if we are trying to get rid of the disparity. Then why does every single caster progress to Legendary in casting... Yet only the Fighter ever becomes Legendary with ANY martial weapons. (The monk only ever gets to Master with unarmed strikes even.)

[Xenocrat]

Every single caster desperately needs that Legendary to keep with enemy saves and have a 50% chance of affecting them with his weaker and reduced in number spells.

A fighter gets legendary so he has a leg up on the other martial classes, who have special utility and weird abilities that he doesn't. The Monk, for example, can fly and throw punches at range and spit out a cone of force damage, but he'll always be a point behind the Fighter when it comes to hitting things.

I really like the combat abilities of the martial classes, I think the nerfs to casters and spells greatly limit their ability to handle utility/narrative stuff, and with some tweaking of skills (more skills for the Fighter and Monk, relaxed signature skill requirements, publish more actual skill limitations requirement expert/master/legendary to avoid GM fiat and player guessing) stuff is more balanced than I ever expected.

[Kitsune Kune]

Xenocrat wrote:

Every single caster desperately needs that Legendary to keep with enemy saves and have a 50% chance of affecting them with his weaker and reduced in number spells.

A fighter gets legendary so he has a leg up on the other martial classes, who have special utility and weird abilities that he doesn't. The Monk, for example, can fly and throw punches at range and spit out a cone of force damage, but he'll always be a point behind the Fighter when it comes to hitting things.

I really like the combat abilities of the martial classes, I think the nerfs to casters and spells greatly limit their ability to handle utility/narrative stuff, and with some tweaking of skills (more skills for the Fighter and Monk, relaxed signature skill requirements, publish more actual skill limitations requirement expert/master/legendary to avoid GM fiat and player guessing) stuff is more balanced than I ever expected.

The "desperate need to keep up with saves" has less to do with getting Legendary, and more to do with the save levels. Just like, as it sits for martials, expect a 50% or less chance to hit. Drop some spells classes to end at expert, some at master, one at legendary. drop saves for levels 13+ by one or two points, and you have the exact same curve on the save vs roll path for casters. (Especially since most monsters are walking around with the maximum possible proficiency-for-that level type stats, on multiple stats. Which makes it clear they built the classes first, then balanced the beasties to be right around the 50% mark all the time.)

[Claxon]

I've just recently noticed that barbarians only ever get up to expert in weapons. No master, no legendary. I can understand if they want fighters to be unique in their legendary weapon use. But barbarians should at least reach master status. Rage doesn't even provide an accuracy bonus anymore. It gives a damage bonus that slightly scales, but bonuses to accuracy are much more important because they're much harder to come by.

I'd rather have rage give accuracy bonuses than damage bonuses if I got the option. A 50% chance to hit isn't acceptable.