If Paizo was to start PF2e over...


General Discussion

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If Paizo was to throw out the current playtest system entirely and start fresh for another attempt at Pathfinder 2e, which bits of the playtest would you want them to keep?

I think the 3 action+reaction system is a keeper, and easier to pick up than the old PF/3.5 action system or Starfinder action system.

Sorcerers getting different spell lists based on bloodline has promise, but not all spell lists are created equal.

There might be some sense in condensing half-elves and half-orcs (and later on, aasimar, tieflings, geniekin, dhampirs) into human heritages, but the current implementation is lacking.


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right now, before having the chance to see the system in action on my table, the new action economy is the only thing that seems worth keeping. I'd hoped that Ancestry and Heritage feats would be too, but right now I'm pretty dissapointed in them. So much wasted potential.


Hythlodeus wrote:
right now, before having the chance to see the system in action on my table, the new action economy is the only thing that seems worth keeping. I'd hoped that Ancestry and Heritage feats would be too, but right now I'm pretty dissapointed in them. So much wasted potential.

Yes, action economy looks very nice - a keeper!


GRuzom wrote:
Hythlodeus wrote:
right now, before having the chance to see the system in action on my table, the new action economy is the only thing that seems worth keeping. I'd hoped that Ancestry and Heritage feats would be too, but right now I'm pretty dissapointed in them. So much wasted potential.
Yes, action economy looks very nice - a keeper!

Yeah, best part of the game, though its been around for a while (Unchained RAE).


My group and I actually like what they were TRYING to do with the classes. A few key abilities as a base with many feats to adapt and specialise the class as you desire sounds like a really neat idea. Of course what we ended up with is far from that but its a design I'd like to see if they could get it down.


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I have not played yet, like Hythlodeus. But for now, I like :

  • the 3 action economy (but not the action icons)
  • the class feat system (I don't know about its content, but the system is nice)
  • the half-ancestry system (even though I would prefer it to not be tied to humans)
  • the rarity system (but do not rely on colors only, add "uncommon", "rare" or "unique" to the header, like in the bestiary)
  • the new icons to point out dangers/encounters/treasures in Doomsday Dawn
  • the skill unlocks based on your proficiency (but I would prefer to have skill points too like in PF1)
  • that your non-class related unlocked features are in your class advancement table and not on a separate table
  • class key ability
  • gear traits
  • dropping most X/day limitations
  • everyone can get a mount ! (but I don't like the fact that you need to follow an edict for it)
  • the simplification of the amount of XP you need to gain a level
  • elven clothes. They are pretty :3


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The system for generating stats is gold! Allocating +'s and -'s that equate to +2s and -2s is so natural and organic. When you're done the number of +'s equals your bonus and it's super easy to extrapolate your ability scores. Plus getting a little ability score choice at every stage of character creation is a very fun exploration process.

I used to dread having to wrestle with point buy. This? I love!


Vic Ferrari wrote:
GRuzom wrote:
Hythlodeus wrote:
right now, before having the chance to see the system in action on my table, the new action economy is the only thing that seems worth keeping. I'd hoped that Ancestry and Heritage feats would be too, but right now I'm pretty dissapointed in them. So much wasted potential.
Yes, action economy looks very nice - a keeper!
Yeah, best part of the game, though its been around for a while (Unchained RAE).

Yes. But sadly in Unchained it only worked for some classes, because other classes (like Magus and Warpriests, for example) did not work without swift actions.

I think Unchained was a first attempt to battle-test rules for PF2. The 3 action economy got a lot of praise in Unchained (I did praise it), even when used in a system not designed for it. It was a logic step to push it forward and center the game around it, with all classes designed to work within the frame of 3 action economy.

However, I see the question as a rethoric one. Like those questions of "if there's a zombie apocalypse tomorrow, which 3 items you would like to have".

I mean... there's no stopping of this. PF2 will come out next year.


Unfortunately not much interest me, honestly I wouldn't mind a clean slate approach. But here goes nothing.

Racial feats and backgrounds: They need a lot of work but could work. But
I really mean a lot of work. For example I hate that half-elves and half-orcs are not their own separate races.

Maybe the action system, I would like swift actions and full round actions back, but that would make it a very different system.


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Things I like about PF2:

-Letting every class customize their abilities through the use of class feats/talents. I think there are implementation problems because of combat feats being restricted to only certain classes, but the general idea is solid and could allow for more unique characters.
-Adding level to AC. I've wanted this since the first time that I played D&D almost two decades ago.
-Putting everything (attacks, AC, skills, saves) on the same +1/level progression track, so that you can roll any one against any other without it being unreasonable.
-Skill Feats are a good idea. They just need to be more about letting you do new cool things (like Quick Sneak) rather than making you buy back what were previously basic uses of skills.
-Transferable magic enchantments for weapons/armor so that finding one that isn't the kind you use isn't a waste.
-Having martial weapon damage scale up as they level is good, although I'd rather it was tied to proficiency rather than magic item bonuses.
-The proficiency system and the +/-10 critical system doesn't seem bad.
-Nerfing save-or-lose spells and toning down casters in general.
-Universal archetypes. It's a solid concept.
-Changing nine different spells into one spell that can function at nine different levels.
-Rituals, at least as a concept.
-Cantrips.
-Explicitly tagging some things as uncommon or rare so players don't expect to be able to find them at every corner store.
-Recalculating prices on the silver standard so that a level 2 character isn't already obscenely wealthy.
-Backgrounds. It's a minor thing, but it's a neat idea that adds some flavor.
-Mostly ditching stat-boosting items in favor of giving more stat increases.

EDIT: Remembered a couple more.

There's a lot of solid concepts, but the implementation needs work.


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My "Like" list thus far is...

* Actions
* Item Quality
* Item Rarity
* Rituals
* Silver-based Economy


Likes include:
* Action system
* Heightening Spells
* Addition of class feats for those that didn't have them
* The way Archetypes are handled (*not* multiclassing)
* Skill feats being a thing
* Somewhat rung-in bonuses (just feel it's gone too far)
* Ability point generation system (ABC1) generally speaking


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I like the action system, I didn't have a problem with the action system in PFe1, but this one is also fine.

Skill feats are a neat idea, but the ones available just don't draw me in. Some of them make me chuckle, like scaring someone to death. I like things like that.

Being able to transfer enchants to other items is amazing.

So far that's it, but I've only played one session with one character at this time. I'll play around with a few more classes and levels and see if there's anything else that catches my attention.


Nothing, really.

Scarab Sages

My choices so far:
*Action Economy - great, love it

*Skill Feats - great idea and another way to make me feel special

*The Proficiency Thing - Yes, gotta keep that, adding levels awesome and getting additional bonus for being extra good yup.

*Ancestry Feat and Background stuff - I,like where they are going, I,like feeling special. I can be in a party of all dwarves and if stonecunning I now feel useful. I see where they are going with this idea and with a few tweeks it can be amazing.

*Character Creation - this can't get simpler and i love it.

*Game Break Up - Oh yeah, i think many people do this already. When youre not in combat just give me an idea of what you are doing. Downtime yes.

*Initiative - I really really like this. I like how I can now dump dex and still have a chance to go because while I might not be physically dexterous but because I had my guard up and was keeping an eye out I am rewarded and not hindered.

*Enchantment - being able to,move enchanting stuff is fun.

*Cantrips - super useful and doesnt make the caster second guess themself

*Heightening Spells - again giving the caster the ability to go all out if they need to

*Item Traits - I like how I can get cleave without a feat

*Item Quality - Simple enough

*Dents - This is fun, now I can make a character to specialize in armor damage

*Bulk - They made the system easier but also they need to tweak a few things.

*Rituals

*Silver based economy

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