Halfling stat boosts incorrect?


Ancestries & Backgrounds


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In the preview before the playtest was released, it was said that halflings would have boosts to Dex, Cha, and a free boost. In the playtest doc though they are listed as getting boosts to Dex and Wis and a free boost.

Does anyone know if this was a misprint or a deliberate change?

Scarab Sages

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It's deliberate. We launched a bit grass-roots campaign in favor of the change on the forums, and lo!, the devs heeded us. You're welcome! :)


Works for me. My free boost was going to go into wisdom anyway so all told it comes out the same. But I like the change. It makes them more distinct from gnomes and gives the two races potentially different niches to fill.

Halfling fey sorcerer here I come.

Liberty's Edge

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Launch a new one to make them a bit better. They suck now.


meh. I preferred Cha. My halflings are reckless. But the free boost covers it, so its ok.

Scarab Sages

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Aldaron79 wrote:
Launch a new one to make them a bit better. They suck now.

To be fair, race stuff isn't really exciting for anyone this edition


Halfling has become like a Grippli.
From the point of niche in core races, this is better.


I don't see what the reasoning for changing this was, other than perhaps "we have too many +cha races" (in which case, could we get at least *one* race that gives a strength bonus, please?). It's been fairly consistent throughout d&d's history that halflings are friendly and have a habit of fitting themselves in comfortably wherever they show up, and getting along well with people. To me, at least, that's a fairly important part of what a halfling is, and is very much in the heading of charisma. On the other hand, common sense and deep theological insight are traits I associate less with them.

And the race's description in the playtest agrees with this: they have a "jovial and friendly nature" and are known for "performing deeds of daring mischief or heroism." The only thing that suggests wisdom is that their "curiosity is tempered with caution, often leading to narrow escapes.". Which is very dubious, since their curiosity and lack of forethought is what gets them into those situations in the first place; it reads more like a justification for them not taking a penalty to wisdom, rather than justifying a bonus. They do also have a habit of living simple lives rather than pursuing great power, which can certainly be described as "wisdom" in general terms, but doesn't fit with Pathfinder's definition of the ability score at all. Catharsis, since you said this was the result of a "grassroots campaign", perhaps you would care to explain your reasoning?


baahk36 wrote:

In the preview before the playtest was released, it was said that halflings would have boosts to Dex, Cha, and a free boost. In the playtest doc though they are listed as getting boosts to Dex and Wis and a free boost.

Does anyone know if this was a misprint or a deliberate change?

There was a bit of a tizy initially that all the small races basically had the exact same stat block Dex, charisma. Honestly I am kinda surprised that the one that was left as that was the goblins of all people but still it is better this way that they are differentiated more.


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halfling getting a wisdom seems to go against decades of lore. changing their stats just because all the other small races had the same block seems amazingly meta gaming to me.


As for the others, Goblins don't make sense to have charisma, but I don't see any of the other mental stats working for them. It's also a bit jarring that they had a negative in PF1, so going to a bonus is a big swing the other direction. Gnomes might be good to get an Inteligence boost instead of CHA, they are clever people. But as was pointed out, the free boosts really make it so the other boosts don't matter too much. Only the negative does in that it keep you from having an 18 at first level.

Silver Crusade

ikarinokami wrote:
halfling getting a wisdom seems to go against decades of lore. changing their stats just because all the other small races had the same block seems amazingly meta gaming to me.

Against 'general' Halfling convention? I'd agree. Against 'Golarion' Halflings? I'd say there's a very real argument that their typical behavior and manner of living points towards WIS more than CHA.

I'd also argue against it being 'meta-gamey' to want the three core small ancestries to not all have +CHA.

Scarab Sages

pi4t wrote:
Catharsis, since you said this was the result of a "grassroots campaign", perhaps you would care to explain your reasoning?

https://paizo.com/threads/rzs2v3wq?P2E-Haikus#10

(Actually, the topic came up in several threads, but was probably most concentrated in the Halfling-themed blog thread «Fuzzy Feet and Voles to Meet»: https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo5lkpm?Fuzzy-Feet-and-Voles-to-Meet #discuss )


Doktor Weasel wrote:
As for the others, Goblins don't make sense to have charisma, but I don't see any of the other mental stats working for them. It's also a bit jarring that they had a negative in PF1, so going to a bonus is a big swing the other direction. Gnomes might be good to get an Inteligence boost instead of CHA, they are clever people. But as was pointed out, the free boosts really make it so the other boosts don't matter too much. Only the negative does in that it keep you from having an 18 at first level.

Charisma's a weird stat in general. Like there's even an NPC in In Hell's Bright Shadow who's described as having a big ego (typically high Cha) but being so irritating that the Asmodeans exiled him to a job no one wanted (low Cha). Hobbitses having high Cha is the latter type, being likeable, while goblins having high Cha is the former type, having strong forces of personality.


On Halflings being bad, I actually favor them as Keen Eyes is really good. Reducing a flat check DC for concealment is solid.


So for me, Golarion's halflings being this oppressed underclass of laborers who have learned to keep their head down, and keep their rebellions very quiet lean a lot more to wisdom (being tied to sense, and perceptiveness- the kind you need to survive this sort of thing) makes a lot more sense than charisma.

Like when you're a slave having an irrepressibly strong personality is probably a liability.

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