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Silver was trash in PF1e.. It served no purpose when ordinary commoners were paid in coppers and adventurers are paid in gold. Now it's relevant. I personally like it.
If we look at today prices of copper,silver,gold and platinum and make a coin of same size(volume) and start with copper, then
silver is almost exactly 100 copper
gold is 145 silver, this can be minted in smaller coins to get ×100 value
but platinum is only 0,75 gold.We can say that in middle ages or and d20 realm platinum is worth a lot more, but best solution would be:
1. Silver standard
2. One silver is 100 copper
3. One gold is 100 silver or 10.000 copper coins.
4. Gold coin is about 70% volume of silver/copper
5. If we take 9g for silver as standard we have:
Copper coin 7,7g
Silver coin 9,0g
Gold coin 11,6g(70% volume of other 2 coins)or if we want same weight coins for calculating bulk, then we go with standard 9g per coin and we get
Silver(standard): 9g, 1× volume, or if we go with 2 euro coin that is 2,2mm thick as standard we get diameter about of 2,2cm
Silver: 9g, 22*2,2mm
Copper: 9g, 24*2,2mm
Gold: 9g, 16*2,2mm
I'd be fine with this, though I think modern prices might be a bit misleading, since the value of precious metals nowadays comes not (solely) from the intersection of their rarity, oxidation resistance, malleability, and appearance, (well, technically yes to most/all of those, but in mostly different ways) but also from their practical applications, such as the use of electronics and investments, and for Platinum, the catalytic converter.
Also, at least for symmetry reasons, I'd be fine keeping gold at the same weight, and just say that "gold" coins are actually closer to 18 karat gold, rather than pure.
And Silver has very limited use in PF1. Which is where copper would end up. But the list of things in PF1 you can buy with Silver is so much more than copper. I am not saying copper will be a major currency, just that centering things at Silver means you might occasionally use it. Otherwise, just make everything a single currency since that seems to be what everyone does in PF1 anyway.I like it. It makes coppers matter. And it means that, if you care about the weight of coins, carrying around a few platinum is now a small fortune. And there is no downside. Most of the complaints against it are "I don't like things changing" which isn't really an argument.Okay. I'll bite.
What would you use copper to buy that you wouldn't use silver for? And from what I'm looking at, copper buys only matter when making your character and goes right out the window. And if it matters so much, my players shouldn't lynch me for paying out in copper right?
I invite you to try that on your players if you're so confident.
My point is that if Silver is your default currency, copper might actually see use in the game. When was the last time in PF1 that you bought anything that cost a copper? Only thing I can think of off hand is maybe a candle? I personally would rather see silver and gold be the common currencies, leaving copper for super cheap items and platinum for parties that care about carry weight. Rather than the current PF1 system which is basically write everything in gold unless I feel like converting it to Platinum for fun.
But I do agree with you that all item prices need to be the same type of coin, otherwise it will cause confusion.
Might isn't the same is will though. How many things "Might" be used only to be pitched off a cliff for any number of reasons.
Sorry I foresee copper going over that same cliff if Paizo doesn't make an effort to keep it relevant to a degree.
Yeah PF1 is littered with any number of things you "Might occasionally use". What makes Copper so special all of a sudden that your players will like being paid in copper?
That they have things to buy with? No they'll probably just use silver.
Side note, I don't know one person that enjoys transfering silver to gold, gold back to silver, silver to copper, copper back to gold if they REALLY have a ton of it...
No players are probably going to settle on 1 so they don't have to keep going to the bank to exchange their coins. And considering more things seem to need gold, why don't they just start with that? Because... reasons?
Now this might all make sense economically. It also probably makes sense realistically(We need realism in a fantasy game why?).
But I'm just thinking as a player and as the character. I get told prices go down on items. Neat. Till I find I get paid 1/10 as much. Yay?
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I think the change I will be happiest for is when the party goes to a merchant to sell an unwanted magic item, and they are not paid in two hundred pounds of gold, implying the merchant just keeps it lying around in pre-measured sacks.
Been said already but I'll reiterate...
Silver is worth less, so that merchant will have to give 10 times the amount, so your argument makes no sense in this regard.
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More to the point, this could mess with rewards. Silver is going to be your common pay now. Don't know about you but I'd be miffed if I went into the dungeon, killed the monster, saved the mayor's daughter and got a bag of Silver. Really?
In fairness, that bag of silver will be worth way more now that the economics have been reworked.
It makes sense, especially when there was so much gold sitting around, passing around, etc. in PF1. That sort of gold system didn't make much sense realistically (yes, yes, I know it's a fantasy world).
I feel like it makes sense from a world standpoint...but it adds extra bookkeeping, since now you have to track multiple types of "money pools" instead of just one. (In my games, at least, sp and cp are just converted to gp whenever the party goes through and sells loot. Add a 0 or two and add it to the gp funds. Done.)
Whether or not you find this worthwhile will probably vary. Personally, even though it may be more realistic, I'd rather just have the gp standard for simplicity's sake. I skipped all my Loot Accounting 101 classes back in college. :-)
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More to the point, this could mess with rewards. Silver is going to be your common pay now. Don't know about you but I'd be miffed if I went into the dungeon, killed the monster, saved the mayor's daughter and got a bag of Silver. Really?In fairness, that bag of silver will be worth way more now that the economics have been reworked.
It makes sense, especially when there was so much gold sitting around, passing around, etc. in PF1. That sort of gold system didn't make much sense realistically (yes, yes, I know it's a fantasy world).
Worth more to what? What's the buying power of that bag of silver?
Runes take Gold. Magic Items take gold. Alchemical Items take gold.
You know what, just give me the 3 gold pieces instead of the 30 silver. At least then I can buy Acid straight up.
And yes, fantasy world. Maybe it's my background, but I don't recall a lot of people complaining about the horde of Gold/Dollars/Zenny/Munny they carried around in video games.
MAYBE Bottlecaps from Fallout.
Worth more to what? What's the buying power of that bag of silver?
That's easy: 10x what is used to be.
Seriously...I really can't wrap my head around why people have so much trouble with this particular change.
Worth more to what? What's the buying power of that bag of silver?That's easy: 10x what is used to be.
Seriously...I really can't wrap my head around why people have so much trouble with this particular change.
Roll back to the rest of my post.
PF1 - Acid. Price is 10 GP.
PF2 - Acid. Price is 3 GP.
Neat. Sweet. That's a big price cut. Oh wait, Silver is the main source of money in PF2. Lemme change that.
PF1 - Acid. Price is 10 GP.
PF2 - Acid. Price is 30 Silver.
Hmmm. Something is wrong here. And that's just 1 example, I don't want to go through the ENTIRE item list at this moment.
Because again, most our coin is going to be in silver now. Or at the very least will be silver for a good... what 5 levels maybe? I'll take the 3 gold over 30 silver but the game is going to give me the Silver first.
I don't think this is an extreme take on the subject. Why is it hard to understand this?
Worth more to what? What's the buying power of that bag of silver?That's easy: 10x what is used to be.
Seriously...I really can't wrap my head around why people have so much trouble with this particular change.
Roll back to the rest of my post.
PF1 - Acid. Price is 10 GP.
PF2 - Acid. Price is 3 GP.Neat. Sweet. That's a big price cut. Oh wait, Silver is the main source of money in PF2. Lemme change that.
PF1 - Acid. Price is 10 GP.
PF2 - Acid. Price is 30 Silver.Hmmm. Something is wrong here. And that's just 1 example, I don't want to go through the ENTIRE item list at this moment.
Because again, most our coin is going to be in silver now. Or at the very least will be silver for a good... what 5 levels maybe? I'll take the 3 gold over 30 silver but the game is going to give me the Silver first.
I don't think this is an extreme take on the subject. Why is it hard to understand this?
Well, it's hard for me to understand because I tend to think like an economist (and there's a reason most of the civilized world has ditched the penny =P).
As for your example, is the issue the switch to the silver standard, or the 200% increase in the price of acid? Because barring prices changes -- which are a completely separate issue -- it now takes 1/10 the mass of any precious metal to purchase any given item, full stop. Which is more practical, and therefore logical (not to mention historically accurate). Heck, even in the case of an item that has tripled in price, you can buy it with 3 gold instead of 10 (and no, people in the market to buy acid won't be carrying silver to do it; a fact hinted at by the price being given in gold).
Meanwhile, as far as I can tell, the argument against it amounts to "it's different" (albeit with a bit of garnish).
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MerlinCross, it's because alchemical weapons have become the alchemist's bread and butter, which means if they're super cheap for everyone, the alchemist loses a bit of oomph.
Nope, Alchemist's should never, ever use a bought bomb per RAW. Period. The higher price is just to ensure even low-level alchemists have to rely on their resonance-taxed Infused Bombs.
The only "oomph" an Alchemist would lose as a result of cheaper alchemical items is the 'oomph'-sound they make everytime they punche themselves in the survivability (by spending RP) to make a bomb. Besides, their bombs are objectively worse than a cantrip at all levels, and cantrips cost at most 1 RP in Investment or an appropriate feat.| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
MerlinCross, it's because alchemical weapons have become the alchemist's bread and butter, which means if they're super cheap for everyone, the alchemist loses a bit of oomph.Nope, Alchemist's should never, ever use a bought bomb per RAW. Period. The higher price is just to ensure even low-level alchemists have to rely on their resonance-taxed Infused Bombs.
The only "oomph" an Alchemist would lose as a result of cheaper alchemical items is the 'oomph'-sound they make everytime they punche themselves in the survivability (by spending RP) to make a bomb. Besides, their bombs are objectively worse than a cantrip at all levels, and cantrips cost at most 1 RP in Investment or an appropriate feat.
Sounds like [bombs + resonance] might need to be revisited.
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Well, it's hard for me to understand because I tend to think like an economist (and there's a reason most of the civilized world has ditched the penny =P).
As for your example, is the issue the switch to the silver standard, or the 200% increase in the price of acid? Because barring prices changes -- which are a completely separate issue -- it now takes 1/10 the mass of any precious metal to purchase any given item, full stop. Which is more practical, and therefore logical (not to mention historically accurate). Heck, even in the case of an item that has tripled in price, you can buy it with 3 gold instead of 10 (and no, people in the market to buy acid won't be carrying silver to do it; a fact hinted at by the price being given in gold).
Meanwhile, as far as I can tell, the argument against it amounts to "it's different" (albeit with a bit of garnish).
I don't have that background so I can't percive the change from economics, but only from game-play and player behavior. Side note, this was years ago but I do recall seeing something about how prices would change if the Penny was dropped.
And yes, the problem is the price increase. Because you aren't being paid in gold, you're going to be paid in silver. That buying power doesn't help you a whole lot if everything you want to buy past level 1 only takes gold. So that means you have to either carry far more silver, or you have to go through the process of converting. (And yes, people in the market will be carrying silver to do it, because you get 120 Silver at the start of the game. Or should we just list that as 12 gold and start skipping straight to gold already?)
I mean if everything is listed in Gold anyway(The non basic stuff) why do we have silver? What's it's buying power if it still takes 10x worth of it to get anything? What staying at inns and food? Forgive me but I question how many people actually do that in the first place.
What we have here to me is that A) Silver gets used as the main currency and thus everything we're used to buying jumps up in price
Or
B) Players not wanting to deal with 10x converting just shrug and list everything as gold ANYWAY basically putting the change to silver as worthless in the first place.
I don't see why this change is good if the result is higher prices or players just discarding the change the first chance they get.
Also you want to talk about practical, logical, and historically accurate? 2 Dragon hoards probably have all of Earth's Gold. So where the heck are these dragons getting their gold? And I don't think the written AP/modules are going to list them lying on mounds of Silver.
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MerlinCross, it's because alchemical weapons have become the alchemist's bread and butter, which means if they're super cheap for everyone, the alchemist loses a bit of oomph.
*Holds up sign; Make Bombs Class Base again*
Yeah no I always like picking up some acid, holy water, Bottled Ice, etc on my characters. Because I like having them, and could be useful against DR/Swarms.
Heck I need to pick up some now in PF1 because some issue in game is making it hard to kill something. I'd rather not have an ENTIRE section of the item catalog be kicked into a class(That can only use maybe a 1/3 of it at any one time)
But that's for another discussion thread. As someone that likes back ups, I would like to have a few bombs on hand just in case. Or healing. Or *Cough* Mutagens.
Oh wait look at those prices.
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What was the reason for changing from the gp standard to a sp standard? It just seems an unnecessary alteration that really doesn't do anything for the game.
Merchants wouldn't pay in hundreds of pounds of gold, it would be in bank notes, platinum, gems, and perhaps other items of value.
The change in gold and pricing is just one more thing to make the game feel more unfamiliar from PF1. In itself it's not a "bad" change, but with every change the game feels more and more unfamiliar, which is not a good thing.
There is no sense in complaining about it now however, it's far too baked into the system to change at this point.
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What we have here to me is that A) Silver gets used as the main currency and thus everything we're used to buying jumps up in price
But the changes made to relative prices have nothing to do with the switch to silver. Literally the only thing effect of the switch to the silver standard is that now everything costs 1/10 of the amount of precious metal that it used to. That's it.
You asked why I didn't understand the complaint: That's why.
I do find it a bit odd at times when mundane items are listed in silver and magic and alchemical items listed in gold. I think I get the reasoning, kind of a two economies thing, silver for the mundane, gold for the fantastic. But it does occasionally trip me up when comparing between the two. But I do really like the silver base and the fact that coinage is much lighter so you're not taking cartloads of the stuff to buy magic items. Just a handful of platinum can do the trick.
I also like the silver base because it makes gold feel more like gold. It's actually valuable instead of having pounds of the stuff as pocket change. Silver is also now valuable instead of not even being considered. Copper is still not really important, but I'm not sure it needs to be. And Platinum is pretty impressive now, it's the $100 bill instead of the $10.
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What is the technical reasoning behind changing this? What problem is it trying to fix?
If it were a matter of moving a decimal place, or all the game items simply replacing the gp cost with sp cost, then it wouldn't be a big deal. That's not the case however as items have just changed cost base AND cost altogether. For example, a PF1 chain shirt was 100gp, while a PF2 chain shirt costs 45sp. A PF1 longsword is 15gp; in PF2, it's 10sp.
A silver piece in PF2 does not means what a gold piece in PF1 meant. From a game world perspective, it's a jarring change. From a backward compatibility standpoint, it adds barrier to converting old adventures.
-Skeld
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Ah yes, I remember all the fabled stories of fantasy where our intrepid heroes saved the princess and was rewarded with a big bag of silver? Or when the mighty warrior slays the dragon atop his horde of silver? Or the mystical leprechaun with his Pot O' Silver at the end of the rainbow?
Gold is and always will be the standard currency of fantasy and fable, arguing otherwise is...dumb.
that said, it truly doesn't matter, if silver replaces gold as the standard, its all the same pencil scratches on your character sheet effectively. Also, Earthdawn did it first and did it better :P
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I wonder how things have changed for the peasants?
Let's see: In PF1, they could buy a pint of ale for 4cp and a loaf of bread for 2cp. According to the PF2 silver standard, we would expect that to now cost 0.6cp for both. Instead, a mug of ale on its own costs 1cp, two and a half times what we'd have expected! Well, what do you expect in a world where the smallest unit of currency is the equivalent of something like $5 or $10?
But: in PF1, unskilled hirelings were paid 1sp per day. In PF2, they are paid 1sp per day. Which, according to the silver standard, is ten times what they were getting before! And trained hirelings now get 5sp per day, an even bigger increase! So even with the massive inflation/deflation (depending on how you're comparing it), the average worker is much better off.
This suggests either a big redistribution of wealth from the rich to the poor, or a surge in economic growth. I will therefore assume that Golarion is undergoing rapid industrialization and a decline in the power of the aristocracy.
Just a general comment, silver standard is the difference between finding the leprechaun's pot of gold (we'll say 1000 coins) and the reaction being "Well that buys us absolutely nothing" and "Sweet, we can get some cool stuff with that"
I don't know about you, but I can find quite a lot to spend 1000gp on in pathfinder classic: heck, bags of holding start at 1000gp. But then I'm the type of person that wouldn't leave cp behind either. So for me, if anything it seems like the new system has less 'wow' factor.
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They should go with 1GP=100SP=10000CP
And use PF1 price based in copper.
so full-plate in PF1 was 1500GP, that was then 150000CP, that is now 15GP
or 1500SP
Then copper can be used for small time everyday purchase and silver for more expensive stuff.
Gold would be for really expensive stuff, magic, housing, castles etc...
What we have here to me is that A) Silver gets used as the main currency and thus everything we're used to buying jumps up in priceBut the changes made to relative prices have nothing to do with the switch to silver. Literally the only thing effect of the switch to the silver standard is that now everything costs 1/10 of the amount of precious metal that it used to. That's it.
You asked why I didn't understand the complaint: That's why.
And yet you can not view that in a singular bubble by itself, you HAVE to look at the prices as well because otherwise what's the bleeding point?
No. I don't get why people are hyped to get paid in a format that still makes everything outside of starting gear more expensive and harder to get.
You see it as "Oh great, we have to use less of this limited resource to pay, that's great"
I see it as "Oh no, most the stuff we want or are asked to get is going to be harder to buy because we are paid LESS".
PF Belt of STR - 4,000. PF 2 - 4500. Oh wait 45000. Because I'm going to need WAY more Silver to crawl up to that price point.
Also I find it completely weird that people want the coin to be realistic but then go over to other topics about how grand or epic or high fantasy other changes are going to make the game feel. Yeah okay.
Bloody Zen, maybe I actually like being Scrooge McDuck. And you haven't answer the Dragon Horde Gold issue. If there's more than 2, maybe 3 dragons on any world, where the heck are all the other dragons getting their gold from? Or are there only 3 dragons at most?
My thought? Plane of Earth is an entire existence full of rock, dirt, stone and, wait for it, Rare Minerals. Why the heck can't some of that leaking into the Material World not explain why they have more gold than us? I mean come on, we have Crysmal; living, moving crystal!
No, I don't get this change at all. No seriously, how much more silver are we going to have to put down and why aren't we going to run out of that too? Heck let's just jump down to copper. Or make the jump to Paper Money.
I notice that people are discussing two changes as though they were one: (1) Coins are worth ten times what they were before.
(2) Adventurers will carry all their money in the form of silver, so nothing meaningful has changed.
The second one doesn't make much sense to me, but is surely entirely optional. If you're buying magic items and selling magic items, why wouldn't you use platinum?
I dunno. Platinum never felt very fantasy to me. Maybe it's my 4th ed heritage showing, but I expect platinum to be the stuff of lost civilisations with modern day using gold as the highest denomination.
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Silver is way less immersion breaking for me than gold, always hated gold being the default unit of money.
The dragon hoard issue is probably always going to be a problem, mostly because artwork tends to show absolutely absurd piles of gold. It's a running joke in my group that an adventure will have a picture showing the dragon sitting on a 20 ft tall mountain of gold and then the treasure list is like: 2,000 gp, 4,000 sp, 9,000 cp. Smaug was possibly sitting on more gold than has ever been mined on Earth.
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What is the technical reasoning behind changing this? What problem is it trying to fix?
If it were a matter of moving a decimal place, or all the game items simply replacing the gp cost with sp cost, then it wouldn't be a big deal. That's not the case however as items have just changed cost base AND cost altogether. For example, a PF1 chain shirt was 100gp, while a PF2 chain shirt costs 45sp. A PF1 longsword is 15gp; in PF2, it's 10sp.
A silver piece in PF2 does not means what a gold piece in PF1 meant. From a game world perspective, it's a jarring change. From a backward compatibility standpoint, it adds barrier to converting old adventures.
-Skeld
I think Skeld nails it on the head. Right here. THIS is the real issue, not whether or not I'm paying in GP, SP, BottleCaps, Shillings, Quatloos, Dollarz$ or whatever.
Was there a technical problem that needed fixing? Probably not. Did the design team want to take the opportunity to shift away from gold to silver because it seemed more "realistic"? Maybe? Did they need to mess with the cost base at the same time? Nope, but they did anyways - and it does present a jarring change.
With so much PF1 material available, this is just another inadvertent one finger salute to anyone who wants to convert that material to PF2. Making it HARDER to convert all the AP's I've purchased over the years simply buts one more roadblock in my adoption of the new system. And it's a NEEDLESS roadblock.
Convert to silver, sure. Whatever. But keep the pricing consistent so previous PF1 material is easily translated to the new system. Moving a decimal point is easy. Repricing everything is not.
Why on earth should they keep the pricing consistent between editions? The items themselves have changed, their availability (maybe) changed, their usage method (maybe) changed, and the general philosophy on when/how to use them has changed so why should their price remain identical (or with a...
I think Skeld nails it on the head. Right here. THIS is the real issue, not whether or not I'm paying in GP, SP, BottleCaps, Shillings, Quatloos, Dollarz$ or whatever.
Was there a technical problem that needed fixing? Probably not. Did the design team want to take the opportunity to shift away from gold to silver because it seemed more "realistic"? Maybe? Did they need to mess with the cost base at the same time? Nope, but they did anyways - and it does present a jarring change.
With so much PF1 material available, this is just another inadvertent one finger salute to anyone who wants to convert that material to PF2. Making it HARDER to convert all the AP's I've purchased over the years simply buts one more roadblock in my adoption of the new system. And it's a NEEDLESS roadblock.
Convert to silver, sure. Whatever. But keep the pricing consistent so previous PF1 material is easily translated to the new system. Moving a decimal point is easy. Repricing everything is not.
I think I was pretty clear about why I thought they should keep pricing consistent. A longsword is still a longsword in Golarion. And the pricing just decides to radically shift? Why? Would the availability of longswords suddenly just change? Why? Silver might make more sense for immersion/realism, but radically changing the pricing at the same time is does not help with that same immersion/realism.
As for the rest - pure strawman. I wasn't speaking to other parts of 2E regarding action economy, monster design, etc.
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I thought they were merely changing it so that what used to cost 2 gp, now costs 2 sp, instead of a suit of amour costing 400 gp, it's 40 gp/400 sp; I can see how actually changing the prices of things would bother some.
If only they had done just that - but Skeld pointed out that this is not always the case at all. It just makes converting things (if one was so inclined) that much harder from 1E to 2E.
Like him, I'd like to know exactly what the Dev's were hoping to fix/rectify with this change. What was the problem and how do they see this solution as 'fixing' what was wrong to begin with?
The dragon hoard issue is probably always going to be a problem, mostly because artwork tends to show absolutely absurd piles of gold. It's a running joke in my group that an adventure will have a picture showing the dragon sitting on a 20 ft tall mountain of gold and then the treasure list is like: 2,000 gp, 4,000 sp, 9,000 cp. Smaug was possibly sitting on more gold than has ever been mined on Earth.
I had a dragon hoard in a recent D&D game that was something like 300,000cp, with a thin layer of gold on top, for show. That feels about right to me.
No. I don't get why people are hyped to get paid in a format that still makes everything outside of starting gear more expensive and harder to get.
They aren't, because simply changing from a gold to silver standard objectively does not do that.
Again, price adjustments are a separate issue. Confusing the two is counter-productive.
But, as I don't know how to point that out any more clearly than I already have, I think I'm done with this thread. :-)
No. I don't get why people are hyped to get paid in a format that still makes everything outside of starting gear more expensive and harder to get.They aren't, because simply changing from a gold to silver standard objectively does not do that.
Again, price adjustments are a separate issue. Confusing the two is counter-productive.
But, as I don't know how to point that out any more clearly than I already have, I think I'm done with this thread. :-)
Confusing the two is counter-productive.
Not taking how the two interact is also counter-productive.
I don't know how to point that out any more clearly that the change to silver isn't happening in a bubble. But I guess I'm done with you.
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I notice that people are discussing two changes as though they were one: (1) Coins are worth ten times what they were before.
(2) Adventurers will carry all their money in the form of silver, so nothing meaningful has changed.The second one doesn't make much sense to me, but is surely entirely optional. If you're buying magic items and selling magic items, why wouldn't you use platinum?
The problem I have is 2 fold. Maybe several folds but I can think of two and have brought them up;
1) We are given Silver at the start(Unless people are cool with us listing that as 12 gold but that's for point two). And the wealth by level table doesn't advance fast enough to warrant getting paid in gold for the first couple levels. So that means you're either getting paid in silver(Because it is the most common way to pay now), or you have to go through the process of turning it into gold which leads to;
2) If we just jump the shark and turn everything we are paid in into Gold, or are paid strictly in gold, then the change to Silver as the base currency does... what for the game? No no no, Not the World as we can argue that to the end of time and back. The actual mechanics part of the game that most players will see. If everything we as players need or want(Or most of it) is in Gold, and we are carrying around and paying IN Gold, why do we need silver? Why did we jump to that?
It strikes me as odd that we seem to have a system that is based on Silver, only to turn around and go "Well everything is in GOLD anyway so just list that instead". To me it's an impasse.
Silver is worth far more, but not as much as gold given the prices of Magic gear(And Alchemical stuff, poor Alch). So you're left with the option of getting a truck ton of silver to buy things, or skipping silver to gold and defeating the purpose of silver in the first place.
And I mean if Gold is so rare, you aren't going to pay your adventurers in it are you? Here have some silver instead.
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Immersion aside (since that's purely based on feelings), I'm still curious about why devs decided to change the stardard from gold to silver. The increased integration between the game system and the Golarion setting means that these aren't just changes to the game, they're changes to the well-established game world.
The prices for alchemical items and magic I can understand, but why change mundane items like chain shirts and longswords?
Of all the aspects of the game that could and should change with a new edition, this is just a head-scratcher.
-Skeld
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I’m with Skeld on this one, this feels like change for the sake of change. Gold pieces have been the standard currency since AD&D came out 40 years ago. I don’t see any compelling reason to change it, and as others have argued already, if the goal is to change the balance between mundane and magical/alchemical items, that could be done without changing the currency.
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The fact that player power is baked into wealth means there is a very large financial variance over items.
The real world solved this by moving away from coins as there is a finite limit to the metal in the world. The bank cheque becoming notes etc.
Now if you role-play'd in a world that "functionally" has debit-credit cards in that see that dragon loot of 100,000 gold pieces hovered up and placed somewhere. Then from an out of character point of view mostly forgotten about. Then the 3.5 paradigm kinda worked.
On the other hand if you have an interest in encumbrance or actual economics then it was bizarre. Your +1 magic sword required you to bring considerably more gold by weight than the sword itself to the wizard. Also most adventures post level 7 would require a wheelbarrow in order to carry the coins they needed to shop.
So the need to make higher denomination currency plausible due to the adventurer economy I can get behind.
On the other hand they whole need to wholesale change all the numbers is odd and makes porting old adventures hard. Id have thought the simple video game currency of 100cp to 1sp, 100sp to 1gp, 100gp to 1pp would have been much simpler. It also covers much more of the magic item prices.
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I like this change in principle; having a gold standing in a medieval setting is ridiculous. But do NOT like that magic items are priced in gold - its so easy to miss and get huge bookkeeping errors. And having to go through a player's accounts and mark which items are priced in gold does not entice me - at all. There is a reason accountant is a paid job, not something most of us do on our leisure time.
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Is a gold standard any more ridiculous than having pixies and androids and Cthulhu in a medieval setting?
I like this change in principle; having a gold standing in a medieval setting is ridiculous. But do NOT like that magic items are priced in gold - its so easy to miss and get huge bookkeeping errors. And having to go through a player's accounts and mark which items are priced in gold does not entice me - at all. There is a reason accountant is a paid job, not something most of us do on our leisure time.
I second this.
To avoid confusion, prices should be given in a single base currency (usually silver pieces for PF2). Smaller units can be used for prices below 1 sp, but larger units should be used only if they are multiples of at least 100 times the base currency. Thus, no prices should be given in gold pieces (unless the ratio of gold to silver is changed to 100 to 1) but giving magic item prices in platinum pieces might work.