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Oh, no, not at all. It's just that my friends have exactly that same weakness as regards to retelling old slip-ups as a humour break.
Hmm, you seemed confused that he was telling a story about stuff that happened two years ago. What he's actually doing is telling a story about the current state of his game. Some guy has been playing for two years and still doesn't understand how the maths works.
So, not an old slip up at all.
Oh, right! That is certainly less excusable. :)
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The duality of ability scores and bonuses is confusing for new players, and given that PF2 does away with ability damage, the death threshold and possibly even odd ability scores, I say we simply identify the ability with its bonus. Kyra has a +4 Wisdom, Halflings gain +1 Wisdom, Heal grants 1d8 + Wisdom hitpoints, etc.
So sing with me: Score, HUNH! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!
Where did we learn they did away with ability damage and where was it suggested that they removed odd scores? Because I must have missed it.
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Having introduced players to ability scores & modifiers in 3e, 4e, and Pathfinder it's always tricky. The fact that there's one that you use for everything (modifiers) and one that is just kinda there (scores). Plus, there's the annoyance of boosting a stat by +1 and it just doing nothing.
Ability scores do nothing. They're needless complication. They're a legacy of a game Pathfinder is no longer associated with.
Dump them.
I feel like "you have attributes which are meaningful only through derived statistics" is not something that most people, even those without a background in tabletop games, since a huge number of video games do that too.
But the solution to that problem is "the derived statistics are easy to derive" I feel.
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Oh, no, not at all. It's just that my friends have exactly that same weakness as regards to retelling old slip-ups as a humour break.Hmm, you seemed confused that he was telling a story about stuff that happened two years ago. What he's actually doing is telling a story about the current state of his game. Some guy has been playing for two years and still doesn't understand how the maths works.
So, not an old slip up at all.
For old stories, I would tell of the time 20 years ago when our party interrupted a cult about to dedicate a newborn baby to be the avatar of a forgotten mad god. Most of the party was fighting our way through the cultists but the rogue tumbled past them all, pulled out some holy water, and baptized the baby on the spot. Alas, the player could not remember the D&D pantheon, and said, "I baptize you in the name of some good god!" That player was my younger daughter, 10 years old at the time.
For the first I think it was mentioned briefly in the Glass Cannon Podcast. Essentially saying that conditions will reduce your modifier rather than reduce your score, so that you don't have to do superfluous maths. E.G Enfeeble 2 would reduce all strength related rolls by 2.
We don't know anything about whether odd numbers will be important yet.
I am encouraged by that change. The same player who could not recall last week how to change +6 to Strength to +3 to Strength bonus made a more glaring mistake a year ago. He kept his character stats in a spreadsheet and rewrote his Strength value with the larger Strength from applying temporary bonuses. He was not sure of the original Strength value when it wore off. Fortunately, I had recorded his stats at character creation and we were able to figure out the current stat. He has not made that mistake again.
If the stat is never modified, except by the stat advancement at every 4th level, and only the stat modifier is enhanced, we will have two views of the character, with enhancement and without enhancement, at every moment. That means we can avoid lines such as, "Temporary increases to Constitution, such as those gained from rage and spells like bear’s endurance, do not increase the total number of rounds that a barbarian can rage per day." If something is not supposed to change with a temporary enhancement, then that something can be based on the stat itself rather than the stat modifier.
However, that gives a reason to keep both attribute scores and attribute modifiers.
That would also mean that a fighter who took Strength damage would not lose use of Power Attack and a wizard who took Intelligence damage would still be able to cast his highest-level spells. If ability damage is going away, as Catharsis said, then that won't matter.
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I feel like "you have attributes which are meaningful only through derived statistics" is not something that most people, even those without a background in tabletop games, since a huge number of video games do that too.
But in that instance, the derived statistics are being done behind the scenes. You increase Might and all the associated bonuses all go up.
Even then, it avoids the PF/3e trap of boosting an ability score and nothing happens by having each increase matter.(Also... ability modifiers are what derives the derived statistics like attack bonus and AC. Ability scores means you need to derive a statistic to then derive a statistic adding a needless step.)
Do Ability Scores do ANYTHING in the game? Do they serve any purpose. Is there ANY reason apart from "because nostalgia" to keep them?
I feel like "you have attributes which are meaningful only through derived statistics" is not something that most people, even those without a background in tabletop games, since a huge number of video games do that too.But in that instance, the derived statistics are being done behind the scenes. You increase Might and all the associated bonuses all go up.
Even then, it avoids the PF/3e trap of boosting an ability score and nothing happens by having each increase matter.(Also... ability modifiers are what derives the derived statistics like attack bonus and AC. Ability scores means you need to derive a statistic to then derive a statistic adding a needless step.)
Do Ability Scores do ANYTHING in the game? Do they serve any purpose. Is there ANY reason apart from "because nostalgia" to keep them?
Not really, but that nostalgia translates into more customers. Or at least Paizo thinks so-- and I happen to agree with them.
It's like the royal family. It doesn't serve a function but people like looking at them.
What if ability scores got tweaked so the modifier was always equal to [Ability Score] - 10?
So your Strength 12 character has a +2 to hit and damage. If somebody is making an opposed Strength check, they roll against your ability score (DC 12).
Basically, your ability modifier would be the relevant part, and the ability score would be the equivalent of a DC used for opposed rolls, just as 2nd edition will use Perception DCs and Stealth DCs.
Granted, it would take getting used to the fact that the normal limit on an ability score is 14 instead of 18. However, it would have the benefit of making ability scores more intuitive while also having symmetry with the Skill DC system that the game already seems like it will have.
What if ability scores got tweaked so the modifier was always equal to [Ability Score] - 10?
So your Strength 12 character has a +2 to hit and damage. If somebody is making an opposed Strength check, they roll against your ability score (DC 12).
Basically, your ability modifier would be the relevant part, and the ability score would be the equivalent of a DC used for opposed rolls, just as 2nd edition will use Perception DCs and Stealth DCs.
Granted, it would take getting used to the fact that the normal limit on an ability score is 14 instead of 18. However, it would have the benefit of making ability scores more intuitive while also having symmetry with the Skill DC system that the game already seems like it will have.
Interestingly, with a 0 DEX, you would have -10 AC, which is about what the penalty was if you were attacked while helpless. (0 DEX = -5; +4 to attack roll if helpless).
I feel like "you have attributes which are meaningful only through derived statistics" is not something that most people, even those without a background in tabletop games, since a huge number of video games do that too.But in that instance, the derived statistics are being done behind the scenes. You increase Might and all the associated bonuses all go up.
Even then, it avoids the PF/3e trap of boosting an ability score and nothing happens by having each increase matter.(Also... ability modifiers are what derives the derived statistics like attack bonus and AC. Ability scores means you need to derive a statistic to then derive a statistic adding a needless step.)
Do Ability Scores do ANYTHING in the game? Do they serve any purpose. Is there ANY reason apart from "because nostalgia" to keep them?
Not really, but that nostalgia translates into more customers. Or at least Paizo thinks so-- and I happen to agree with them.
It's like the royal family. It doesn't serve a function but people like looking at them.
Then they serve the function of being looked at.