It depends on what your team needs.
If you need C.C I would suggest going for a spell like Acidic Spray with Dazing Spell (+3) and Persistent (+2) for a total of 10 minus 1 if you take magical lineage so you respect the level 9 cap.
If you need AoE damage, I would suggest going for a spell like Freezing sphere with maximized spell (+3).*if you can cast it with a rod of persistent it's even better
If you need single target damage, I would suggest going for Disintegrate with maximized spell (+3) and Bouncing spell (+1) *if you can cast it with a rod of persistent it's even better
To answer your question on a level 6 spell with quicken (+4) you could do it only if you have the magical lineage trait since you treat the spell a level lower.
Depends on what kind of casting you’re looking for
Blasting for damage (chain lightning and battering Blast)
Control (ball lightning is one good one but there are a few good examples)
Save or suck (pick your fave spell and stick persistent on it)
Magical lineage is a must have if you even consider using Spell perfection. And I recommend good ol' fireball for blasting. Though battering blast is an interesting alternative.
Good old fireball with any combination of intensify, empowered/persistent, maximized/dazing, and/or quicken spell.
Fireball being a 3rd level spell means you can throw out a quickened dazing fireball and an empowered intensified dazing fireball from two 5th level spell slots (factoring in magical lineage) in a single round.
Spell Perfection, Spell Focus (evocation), and Greater Spell Focus means your metamagiced fireballs have the same save DC as a non-spell-focused 7th level spell.
Go evocation [admixture] as your wizard school and you add damage equal to half your level on top of that and can change the element on the fly 3+Int times a day.
Grab a standard rod of maximize spell (or two) to tack even more metamagic on top of these shenanigans. And one for selective spell so your buddies getting into melee doesn't stop the fun.
If you want a slightly different route focusing on single target let me suggest Battering Blast. 40d6 + 80 force damage range touch attack with no save on a level 3 spell is nothing to scoff at. Throw maximize and empower on that and you can easily one shot bosses.
If you want a slightly different route focusing on single target let me suggest Battering Blast. 40d6 + 80 force damage range touch attack with no save on a level 3 spell is nothing to scoff at. Throw maximize and empower on that and you can easily one shot bosses.
How are you getting 40d6+80 dmg on that?
If you want a slightly different route focusing on single target let me suggest Battering Blast. 40d6 + 80 force damage range touch attack with no save on a level 3 spell is nothing to scoff at. Throw maximize and empower on that and you can easily one shot bosses.How are you getting 40d6+80 dmg on that?
Ok, so this requires a couple of things to get to these specific numbers, but it is still capable of ridiculous numbers without them. The build uses the Blood Arcanist Archetype, and requires that your DM agrees that you can trade the appropriate level powers for Blood Mutations (Blood Havoc, Blood Intensity), and that you have a Charisma or Strength mod of +6. Also you take the Orc Bloodline for the Arcana, so with Blood Havoc you get +2 per damage die.
Now, if that is cool with your DM, then lets look at caster level. The goal is 25 for the spell.
So lets assume level 16 base. Add an Orange Prism Ioun stone (+1), Potent Magic (+2), Varisian Tattoo (+2 with Spell Perfection) and Spell Specialization (+4 with Spell Perfection). That gets you caster level 25.
Now, Battering Blast at base gives one Orb that deals 1d6 per 2 caster levels, maxed at 5d6 (CL10). Now, Blood Intensity (with a +6 mod) raises that to a limit of CL16, which is 8d6 per orb. In addition, for every 5 CL beyond 5th, you get an extra orb.
This brings it to 5 orbs that each deal 8d6 force, with +2 for each damage die, for a total of 40d6 + 80
FWIW even without allowing the Bloodline Mutations, with Intensify Spell and the Orc Bloodline you can still get 35d6 + 35 force damage, which maximized and empowered is still enough to one shot most enemies in an AP.
Also for a bonus, use a Cyclops Helm to make one of the Orbs crit, effectively giving you a 6th orb worth of damage once per day.
And if you can get a +8 Cha or Str Modifier (Orc Bloodline level 15 and Bull strength?) and one more caster level addition, then at level 20 you can do 54d6 + 108.
Side Note: If you hit something with this build and it doesnt die, then you are also getting a free Bull Rush attempt with at least a +75 CMB mod.
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Ok, so this requires a couple of things to get to these specific numbers, but it is still capable of ridiculous numbers without them. The build uses the Blood Arcanist Archetype, and requires that your DM agrees that you can trade the appropriate level powers for Blood Mutations (Blood Havoc, Blood Intensity), and that you have a Charisma or Strength mod of +6. Also you take the Orc Bloodline for the Arcana, so with Blood Havoc you get +2 per damage die.
Blood Mutations explicitly call out Sorcerer spells, so you can't use them with an Arcanist spells. To get +2 dmg /die you can either go full Sorcerer with Orc bloodline + Blood Havoc (or crossblooded Draconic/Orc) or, if you want to stay Wizard, you have to dip one level into crossblooded Draconic/Orc Sorcerer.
Also for a bonus, use a Cyclops Helm to make one of the Orbs crit, effectively giving you a 6th orb worth of damage once per day.
If your GM is crazy enough to allow this item, then don't waste it with a puny orb, use it with Disintegrate instead for 80d6+160 damage on a confirmed crit.
I respect Disintegrate for what it does, but I am choosing Battering blast for different reasons. I would personally rather deal 35d6 + 35 on a touch attack spell with no save that I can Maximize, Intensify, and Empower in a 4th level slot or Maximize, Quicken, and Intensify in a 5th level slot over dealing 50d6 + 100 that allows a fort save that reduces the damage to 5d6 + 10 that I can Maximize and Intensify OR Quicken in a 6th level slot. Both examples assume a 25 CL.
Math
Maximized Intensified Disintegrate (6th) (CL 25th)
50d6 + 100 = 400 damage on a failed save
5d6 + 10 = 40 damage on a successful save
The fact that you cant have Persistent and Maximize at the same time hurts. You could do Persistent and Empower, but then you cant Intensify, and its a 7th level slot. That would make it 330 on a save that they have to make twice.
Empowered Maximized Intensified Battering Blast (4th) (CL 25th)
35d6 + 35 = 367 damage with no save if you can hit 5 ranged touch attacks.
Also, I like that Battering Blast can be Quickened, Maximized, and Intensified as a 5th level slot.
Obviously there is only so much blasting that you need to do in a day, but You will get a lot more casts out of Battering Blast.
It is important to consider what types of things you want to deal with. Disintegrate isn't particularly good if you are fighting things with high fort saves, as a lot of monsters have, but is better against enemies with Low Fort saves. And Disintegrate arguably is better against enemies with higher Touch AC because you only have to hit one time, but then again if you miss you deal nothing, so its probably a coin flip there.
I will agree that Disintegrate is definitely better with the Helm, as it guarantees at least a hit, and can deal around 800 damage if they don't save, though IMO guaranteeing the hit is probably more valuable than threatening the crit.
Edit: Not to mention that if you aren't starting at high levels, the Battering Blast build comes online a lot sooner, as you can be casting Empowered BB in 3rd level slots as early as level 6, while you cant get access to Disintegrate until at least 11 or 12. In short, I think that Disintegrate is potentially stronger when you are just looking for a boss killer. But if you are looking for a strong, all day blasting spell with a focus on priority targets, I think BB wins out.
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Just to be clear: I never said that Disintegrate is the optimal choice. Actually it is quite crappy in my opinion.
Battering Blast is of course better than Disintegrate for obvious reasons, I just said that IF your GM allows the Cyclops Helm, it's better to use it on Disintegrate (as long as the odds of a failed save are reasonably high enough).
Fair point. I just like doing math. It was honestly educating for me to go through the comparison, because I am just starting to dip my feet into blasting and use of spell perfection. And you are absolutely right. If they have a decent chance of failing the save then Disintegrate is absolutely better with the Cyclops Helm.
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Actually now that I think about it, I have some questions about BB.
1. Do you have to use one ranged touch attack for BB, or one for each orb? It doesn't have the same language as scorching ray (specifically stating that you have to roll a ranged touch attack for each ray).
2. The spell says one target, so I assume no matter how many orbs they all have to go at one target. Is this correct, or can each orb hit a separate target?
If your GM is crazy enough to allow this item, then don't waste it with a puny orb, use it with Disintegrate instead for 80d6+160 damage on a confirmed crit.
If the GM is crazy enough to allow this, you just know someone is going to buy 4 or 5 and a vorpal weapon.
Depends on what kind of casting you’re looking for
Blasting for damage (chain lightning and battering Blast)
Control (ball lightning is one good one but there are a few good examples)
Save or suck (pick your fave spell and stick persistent on it)
Following up on this I'd highly recommend Chains of Light. Spell resistance doesn't matter, it targets reflex which is great, add persistent to it and it's a terrific lockdown spell. If you're a conjurer or have any tricks to increase your spell DC, so much the better! It's not really the wizard's job to do damage, it's to control the battlefield. Let the members of your party damage the chained up BBEG while you take care of the big picture.
J
Yes chains of light is excellent vs a single target. If your looking for multiple targets you will have to look elsewhere.
If you want a slightly different route focusing on single target let me suggest Battering Blast. 40d6 + 80 force damage range touch attack with no save on a level 3 spell is nothing to scoff at. Throw maximize and empower on that and you can easily one shot bosses.How are you getting 40d6+80 dmg on that?Ok, so this requires a couple of things to get to these specific numbers, but it is still capable of ridiculous numbers without them. The build uses the Blood Arcanist Archetype, and requires that your DM agrees that you can trade the appropriate level powers for Blood Mutations (Blood Havoc, Blood Intensity), and that you have a Charisma or Strength mod of +6. Also you take the Orc Bloodline for the Arcana, so with Blood Havoc you get +2 per damage die.
Now, if that is cool with your DM, then lets look at caster level. The goal is 25 for the spell.
So lets assume level 16 base. Add an Orange Prism Ioun stone (+1), Potent Magic (+2), Varisian Tattoo (+2 with Spell Perfection) and Spell Specialization (+4 with Spell Perfection). That gets you caster level 25.
Now, Battering Blast at base gives one Orb that deals 1d6 per 2 caster levels, maxed at 5d6 (CL10). Now, Blood Intensity (with a +6 mod) raises that to a limit of CL16, which is 8d6 per orb. In addition, for every 5 CL beyond 5th, you get an extra orb.
This brings it to 5 orbs that each deal 8d6 force, with +2 for each damage die, for a total of 40d6 + 80
FWIW even without allowing the Bloodline Mutations, with Intensify Spell and the Orc Bloodline you can still get 35d6 + 35 force damage, which maximized and empowered is still enough to one shot most enemies in an AP.
Also for a bonus, use a Cyclops Helm to make one of the Orbs crit, effectively giving you a 6th orb worth of damage once per day.
And if you can get a +8 Cha or Str Modifier (Orc Bloodline level 15 and Bull strength?) and one more caster level addition, then at level 20 you can do 54d6 + 108.
Side Note:...
That's crazy good... Well done bro
Wow, crazy OP. That's one of a few reasons I don't let people in my games play an arcanist.
J
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Wow, crazy OP. That's one of a few reasons I don't let people in my games play an arcanist.
J
A sorcerer could do that just as well. An arcanist has the edge in certain kinds of flexibility but the raw numbers are the same for that battering blast.
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Wow, crazy OP. That's one of a few reasons I don't let people in my games play an arcanist.
J
As already said, Arcanists actually cannot pull up that kind of damage without dipping into Sorcerer, which means they'd have an even slower spell progression. So banning Arcanists for this reason doesn't make much sense. The best builds for blasting are in fact full Sorcerer or Wizard with a level dip into Crossblooded Sorcerer.
Two other great spells to throw in:
Aqueous Orb - great for dazing as you can shape the area, you can use it for several rounds and it doesn't allow SR. Also there are probably less enemies immun to nonlethal than to fire.
Ice Spears - similar to battering blast, no force effect but no attack roll needed. Also it scales faster and has some minor control options added in. Also doesn't allow SR.
From a strict optimization perspective, the best battering blast user is probably an Exploiter Wizard with Potent Magic and a 1 level dips in sorcerer for the Orc Bloodline replacing the first level power with Blood Havoc. Or a Sorcerer with the Orc Bloodline, Blood Havoc, and Blood Intensity. It really depends on levels and stats because the Wizard gets the extra orbs earlier but with Blood Intensity and a high Charisma the sorcerer gets more dice per orb than the Wizard.
Wizard probably gets the edge because they get bonus metamagic feats (they give their normal ones up but get access to the metamagic knowledge exploits), and the build is relatively feat intensive, because you need Spell Focus, Mages Tatoo, Spell Specialization, a minimum of 3 metamagic feats, and Spell Perfection. That's literally every single feat as a Sorcerer up to level 15
I see from this thread that I've not been thinking about Magical Lineage properly.
I assumed b/c it was a trait and not meant to be as good as, say, a feat, that the spell you applied it to would be a 1st level spell you learned. But it seems a closer look, RAW, doesn't limit it to a 1st level spell after all. So you could metagame and wait to pick a different spell in the future. It bothers me a little bit, but I guess that's how people are interpreting it.
I mean, Wayang Spellhunter specifically calls out that you choose a spell of up to 3rd level, so choosing a spell higher than first level doesn't go against the spirit of the rules.
I mean, Wayang Spellhunter specifically calls out that you choose a spell of up to 3rd level, so choosing a spell higher than first level doesn't go against the spirit of the rules.
Point taken; thanks for the response.