Need suggestions for character in very unusual campaign.

[Morgen]

Hey all. I'm having some issues coming up with anything I particularly want to play in a campaign my friend is trying to start up. The things that are allowed and disallowed and the goals in the game are kind of all over the place.

It's a semi-pvp gladiator/challenge focused campaign that starts at 12th level in a world where fifth level and higher spells don't exist at all. No items with them as prerequisites (yet 200k to spend with a 50k max per item) and the higher level slots are mostly just for meta magic, though if a supernatural ability emulates something that's higher it's fine.

Our allowed books are:
Core Rule book
Advanced Class Guide
Advanced Player’s Guide
Advanced Race Guide
Pathfinder Unchained
Ultimate Combat
Ultimate Equipment
Ultimate Magic

Everything related to summoning isn't allowed for us. All hit points are maxed. Immunities are just resist 30 or save +8. No guns, companions or familiars are replaced with a bonus feat. It uses the revised action economy. People can come back to life with in game items. We have access to several of the CR+1 templates that exist like advanced, celestial, etc but we're on a 15 point buy. Any race with an actual page of information in the race Guide is open game.

So you can see it's kind of all over the place. I could make a merfolk dragon disciple bloodrager but I can't buy a broom of flying. The only traits are those from the APG.

I'm just not having much luck coming up with ideas that are appealing. With everyone having maxed out hit points it feels like just dealing damage won't be that great. At the moment I'm leaning towards a hexcrafter magus since curses and other debuffs sound more effective, or maybe a mystic thurge randomly. I don't know what anyone else is making either.

Anyone have any suggestions or ideas? Please, I could really use a hand.

[Etob]

Try a Strix archer. Flight means staying away from the things that can hurt you most, and it's nonmagical to boot.

[avr]

Maxed hit points aren't as good as you'd think against a serious blaster build. With immunities not happening & PvP a possibility I might go for a fire blasting sorcerer, or if antimagic fields are a risk in the arena (despite the general rule) then perhaps the archer Etob suggests.

[Morgen]

Thanks, these are some ideas. With rings of evasion floating around I'm not sure how well blasting would go. Archery is an idea though.

[*Khan*]

Max caster level build with focus on dispel magic and Battering Blast

[Thunderlord]

A Trox Titan Mauler, get anything and everything that increases your will saves,

[Morgen]

Battering Blast isn't in an allowed source book, and the Trox doens't have a proper write up in the Race Guide but those are also interesting ideas, thank you. :)

[Lady-J]

do you have access to the kinentesist class?

[avr]

The kineticist is in Occult Adventures which isn't on his allowed list.

Vs. rings of evasion: focus on scorching ray (no save) or just max out your save DC. It has no effect if the target fails their save.

[DeathlessOne]

Personally, I would recommend a Bloodrager. Pick whatever race you want, but tack on Primalist, Steelblood, and Untouchable Rager archetypes. All from the Advanced Class Guide and all abilities replace different things, making them stackable. Pick the Arcane bloodline.

Between the auto-buffs (which can include HASTE), Superstition rage power, spell resistance, and armor training, you should be able to wade through magic with limited issue, especially if you have a ring of resistance.

If the variant Multiclass is an option from the Unchained, I would be tempted to take the VMC Paladin option for the Lay on Hands, and take the Lesser Celestial Totem (+ Fey Foundling feat), for Uber self healing.

I would honestly make a halfling for this.... With the Advanced (+1 ) Template

[DeathlessOne]

I put together a build in Herolab for what I might make for this occasion. Fey foundling is not from the allowed books, so it is not included. No item worth more than 50k, made sure to buy ring of evasion in according to OP’s desire to avoid spells (in fact, this build made specifically for that). If you want to sunder spells, select witch hunter and spell sunder rage powers. I do recommend spending your remaining gold on consumables to prevent some nasty things, like poison (delay poison is great), see invisibility, and flight. Brooch of shielding would be good too, just in case SR doesn’t stop magic missiles.

Halfling Smash!:

(Haste, Smite Evil, Power Attack, Guarded Stance, and Bloodrage are active in these stats)
Advanced halfling bloodrager (primalist, steelblood, untouchable rager) 12/paladin* (Pathfinder RPG Advanced Class Guide 15, 84, 85, 85, Pathfinder RPG Bestiary 288)
LG Small humanoid (halfling)
Init +9; Senses Perception +19
--------------------
Defense
--------------------
AC 38*, touch 21, flat-footed 29 (+12 armor, +3 deflection, +5 Dex, +4 dodge, +5 natural, -2 rage, +1 size) *+4 more dodge vs medium or larger enemies
hp 240 (12d10+120)
Fort +20, Ref +13 (+1 bonus vs. trample attacks, +1 bonus vs. trample attacks), Will +14; +2 bonus vs. spells cast by self or an ally, +5 morale bonus vs. spells, supernatural abilities, and spell-like abilities but must resist all spells, even allies', +2 vs. fear
Defensive Abilities blood sanctuary, evasion, underfoot[APG]; Resist underfoot[APG]; SR 22
--------------------
Offense
--------------------
Speed 60 ft.
Melee +3 furious impact impervious transformative adamantine earth breaker +30/+26 (2d6+51/×3)
Special Attacks greater bloodrage (32 rounds/day), smite evil 1/day (+3 attack and AC, +8 damage)
Paladin Spell-Like Abilities (CL 12th; concentration +15)
At will—detect evil
--------------------
Statistics
--------------------
Str 30, Dex 20, Con 28, Int 11, Wis 15, Cha 16
Base Atk +12; CMB +22 (+23 bull rush, +24 sunder); CMD 41 (42 vs. overrun, 43 vs. sunder)
Feats Furious Focus[APG], Improved Initiative, Improved Sunder, Iron Will, Power Attack, Raging Brutality[UC]
Skills Acrobatics +19 (+31 to jump), Climb +13, Intimidate +18, Perception +19, Spellcraft +13, Swim +13; Racial Modifiers +2 Perception
Languages Common, Halfling
SQ armor training 2, blood deflection, disruptive bloodrage, greater arcane bloodrage, halfling bloodrager, indomitable stance, lay on hands 9/day (6d6), rage powers (lesser celestial totem, eater of magic[UC], guarded stance +3, superstition +5)
Other Gear +3 champion impervious mithral full plate, +1 furious impact impervious transformative adamantine earth breaker[UE], amulet of natural armor +3, belt of physical might +4 (Str, Con), bracers of the merciful knight[UE], cloak of resistance +3, ring of evasion, 4,860 gp
--------------------
Special Abilities
--------------------
+3 AC when raging vs. larger foes Gain a +1/4 dodge bonus to AC while bloodraging against creatures at least one size category larger than the bloodrager.
Armor Training 2 (Ex) Worn armor -2 check penalty, +2 max DEX.
Blood Deflection (Su) Imm. act: sacrifice spell for defl. bonus to AC until start of next turn.
Blood Sanctuary +2 (Su) +2 bonus to save vs. spells cast by self or an ally.
Bloodrage (32 rounds/day) (Su) +6 Str, +6 Con, +3 to Will saves, -2 to AC when enraged.
Celestial Totem, Lesser (Su) Cure spells heal CL extra Hp, non spell magical healing does class level extra.
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Disruptive Bloodrage (Su) +2 to DC for enemy spellcasters in threatened area when raging.
Eater of Magic (1/rage) (Su) Reroll if fail save vs. spell/Su ability. If reroll succeeds, negate effect & gain temp Hp for 1 min.
Evasion (Ex) If succeed on Reflex save for half dam, take none instead.
Fearless +2 bonus to save vs. fear (stacks with halfling luck).
Furious Focus If you are wielding a weapon in two hands, ignore the penalty for your first attack of each turn.
Greater Arcane Bloodrage (Haste) (Sp) As a free action apply chosen spelll to self when enter bloodrage.
Guarded Stance +3 (9 rounds) (Ex) Gain a +3 dodge bonus to AC vs. melee attacks while raging.
Improved Sunder You don't provoke attacks of opportunity when sundering.
Indomitable Stance (Ex) +1 to Reflex vs. trample & to hit, dam, and AC vs. charging foe.
Lay on Hands (6d6 hit points, 9/day) (Su) As a standard action (swift on self), touch channels positive energy and applies mercies.
Power Attack -4/+17 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Raging Brutality (+9) Add Constitution bonus on damage rolls
Smite Evil (1/day) (Su) +3 to hit, +8 to damage, +3 deflection bonus to AC when used.
Spell Resistance (22) You have Spell Resistance.
Superstition +5 (Ex) While raging, gain bonus to save vs. magic, but must resist all spells, even allies'.
Underfoot +1 AC vs. larger opponents and +1 save vs. trample

.

[Scott Wilhelm]

I got one. I intended this for PFS.

Half Elf, Arcane Training

This will let you use magic wands.

1Bralwer1: Snakebite Striker, Sneak Attack 1d6, Unarmed 1d6, Martial Cunning, Point Blank Shot, BAB +1
2B1Ninja1: Sneak Attack 1d6, Poison
3B1N2: Ninja Vanishing Trick, Precise Shot, Ki Pool, BAB+2

So what you have here is use Ninja Vanishing Trick. When you make Attacks while Invisible, your target is denied his AC bonus, so you get your Sneak Attack Damage. Then you use a Magic Wand that casts one of those spells that are Ranged Touch Attacks like Acid Splash or Scorching Ray. Or use a Robe of Needles that also makes Ranged Touch Attack, only does 1 point of damage, but has a 1 point Bleed. Now what you get is Ranged Touch Attacks vs. Flatfooted AC that lock in your Sneak Attack Damage!

4B1N3: Sneak Attack +1d6, No Trace +1, BAB+3
5B1N4: False Attacker, Improved Grapple, BAB+4

With False Attacker, you get to make a Bluff Check as a Swift Action after attacking from Stealth. If you succeed, you get to keep your hiding place, and you get to keep making your Ranged Touch Attacks vs. Flatfooted AC that locks in Sneak Attack Damage.

6B1N4Cavalier1: Constable, Tactician, Coordinated Maneuvers, BAB+5
7B1N4C2: Expert Captor, Greater Grapple, BAB+6

Expert Captor lets you Tie Up a Grappled, not Pinned opponent, and you don't take the -10 you normally do. Greater Grapple lets you make 2 Grapple Checks/round: 1 as a Standard Action, the other as a Move Action, so you can take out a opponent in a single round if your Grapple mod is high enough, and you can get it high enough. You'll be fighting with a GMB in the 30s with the ability to nova it into the 50s if you gather up enough bonuses. Some of them will require self-buffing, but since your character will disappear and hide for lots of the combat, you will be able to do that.

8B1N4C2Alchemist1: Grenadier, Bombs 1d6, Martial Weapon, Throw Anything, Mutagen, Martial Weapon

I selected Grenadier because Vivisectionist is not allowed in PFS. But I suppose you could just be a Vivisectionist and keep getting more Sneak Attack Damage instead of Bombs. There are pros and cons to either.

9B1N4C2A2: Alchemal Weapon, Precise Bombs, Infusion, King Crab Tumor Familiar, BAB+7

Use a Wand of Touch Injection and the Familiar's Share Spells Ability. Or maybe your Crab can wear Poisoner's Gloves: ask your GM. Before closing in quietly for a Grapple, you give your familiar an Infusion of True Strike. You put Touch Injection on your Familiar. you put True Strike on yourself. You sneak up on one of your opponents. Then you Grapple as a Standard Action with a +20 from True Strike. Your Familar hits you with Touch Injection and another True Strike as a Readied Action, then you Tie Up yoru opponent as a Move Action, again with the +20.

10B1N4C2A3: Bombs 2d6, Swift Alchemy, BAB+8
11B1N4C2A4: Tentacle, Explosive Missle, BAB+9

You wouldn't take Explosive Missile as a Vivisectionist.

The party spellcasters might have Freedom of Movement, which would completely undo your Grappling, so maybe take them out first so they can't cast it. A Ring of Freedom of Movement is very expensive, so it is unlikely that nonspellcasters will have one. But if any do, then just hide somewhere and Sneak Attack them to death.

You didn't say what kind of combat scenario it will be. I'm envisioning a battle royale.

[DeathlessOne]

Scott, I hate to say this but several of the abilities you suggest are from splat books (Knights of the Inner Sea, Expert Captor, for example). They are not in the OP’s allowed list.

[Scott Wilhelm]

DeathlessOne wrote:

Scott, I hate to say this but several of the abilities you suggest are from splat books (Knights of the Inner Sea, Expert Captor, for example). They are not in the OP’s allowed list.

Aw, Shucks. So is Equipment Trick, Rope, which would have been my other suggestion.

So, how about you stick with Ranged Combat. Instead of levels in Cavalier, take levels in Ranger. You will be able get Precise Shot that way and skip Point Blank Shot. Plus, you can get a Wand of Gravity Bow, which gives you a 1-step Virtual Size Increase on your Arrows, from 1d8 to 2d6. Plus, you can augment your stealthy/invisibility with a Wand of Negate Aroma just in case one of your opponents has Scent.

You can get around Tremorsense with by Climbing, maybe some Levitation or flight.

You might still take levels in Alchemist. You can't be a Grenadier, but you can still take Explosive Missile: exploding arrows are cool. So are exploding Bullets. You might dip a level in Gunslinger. Guns also make Ranged Touch Attacks. Guns generally have lower rates of fire than bows, but if you are charging them with Alchemal Bombs, there goes your rate of fire anyway.

Plus it will give you the ability to shoot other trick arrows like Dispeling Bombs.

Another thing you might do is take 3 or more levels in Bard with the Flame Dancer Archetype and get yourself an Eversmoking Bottle. The Eversmoking Bottle makes everyone Blind except for you and your party members. If there is anyone in the party that failed to take countermeasures against being Blinded, you can side with them and give them ability to see in the Smoke until he has eliminated your competition for you.

If you dip 3 levels in Monk with the Drunken Master Archetype, you can replenish your Ki endlessly by drinking, which also might let you take Alchemal Extracts and Mutagens without provoking Attacks of Opportunity.

A Half Elf can take the Stabbing Shot Feat, which will let you use your bow in Threatened Squares without provoking attacks of opportunity.

[Morgen]

Yeah, you start to see why I'm asking for help on this. Just so many ideas but then it's hits some odd roadblock. Not bad ideas though! Just can't do anything with it.

No guns either.

DeathlessOne, that is pretty impressive with all that. Bloodrager does keep coming up as ideas for it. I didn't know superstitious would work with the buffs from the Arcane Bloodrager but re-reading it seems to certainly look like it should be fine. I'm going to take a look at what you've got in YAPCG and see how it looks. I know I didn't list it but Adamantine and Mithral are apparently banned. I've been fiddling with halflings and so forth a lot too, so it sounds similar to some of my ideas.

[Scott Wilhelm]

Morgen wrote:

Yeah, you start to see why I'm asking for help on this. Just so many ideas but then it's hits some odd roadblock. Not bad ideas though! Just can't do anything with it.

No guns either.

DeathlessOne, that is pretty impressive with all that. Bloodrager does keep coming up as ideas for it. I didn't know superstitious would work with the buffs from the Arcane Bloodrager but re-reading it seems to certainly look like it should be fine. I'm going to take a look at what you've got in YAPCG and see how it looks. I know I didn't list it but Adamantine and Mithral are apparently banned. I've been fiddling with halflings and so forth a lot too, so it sounds similar to some of my ideas.

My build will work with bows or Robes of Needles. Gunslinger is just a variant.

[DeathlessOne]

Morgen wrote:

DeathlessOne, that is pretty impressive with all that. Bloodrager does keep coming up as ideas for it. I didn't know superstitious would work with the buffs from the Arcane Bloodrager but re-reading it seems to certainly look like it should be fine. I'm going to take a look at what you've got in YAPCG and see how it looks. I know I didn't list it but Adamantine and Mithral are apparently banned. I've been fiddling with halflings and so forth a lot too, so it sounds similar to some of my ideas.

Yeah, since no spells are actually being cast (You don't actually get spellcasting with my build). there is nothing to resist, it is just part of your bloodrage. Adamantine and Mithril being banned are a bit ... irritating (i don't understand why), but are really only there for flavor (and resisting sunder attempts). You will move at full speed in heavy armor regardless, just have more check penalty and slightly less AC due to lower max dex.

Use the gold you will save to increase the armor bonus or get more consumables to bounce back from unexpected issues. You might be able to afford some boots of speed for use outside of rage.

[Dilvias]

You have access to the advanced template, correct? Does it cost a level if you take it?

Also, if you have access to the Advanced Race Guide, are you allowed to create your own race?

How useful will skills be? Are there going to be skill challenges?

[Morgen]

I'm sure I can find something to spend some more gold on with that. No variant Multi-classing either, just asked. Too bad though, since I'd never read it before and it's actually pretty neat.

We can take the Advanced Template, it doesn't cost levels though.

Can't create our own races. Skills will likely be very useful a lot of the time.

[DeathlessOne]

Morgen wrote:

I'm sure I can find something to spend some more gold on with that. No variant Multi-classing either, just asked. Too bad though, since I'd never read it before and it's actually pretty neat.

... Unfortunate. However, all is not lost! We can still get lay on hands and maintain our healing abilities through feats! Three of which we get back without having the VMC option.

First, drop Improved sunder. Take Believer’s Boon. Choose Erastil and the Community Domain. This allows use to remove some minor nonlethal damage AND three status (one which is fatigue, so we can rage cycle at least once). Although your choice of deity is optional, as is the domain. Just need a LG, NG, or LN deity.

Two, take Believer’s Hands. This gives us Lay on Hands 1/day.

Three, take Extra Lay on Hands twice. Now, we have five uses.

Lastly, keep the same items we had before, and we can heal as if we were a level 10 paladin, 5d6.

We lose the Smite Evil ability, but ... oh well. Since we no longer have Smite, there is little reason to keep a good charisma. Dump it for more Strength, or Con, or both.

[Morgen]

Wow, that's interesting. I didn't even know some of these feats existed. XD

Thanks DeathlessOne. Oh and Lesser Celestial Totem is in Champions of Purity I thought? And Raging Brutality requires a BAB of 12 and I don't have any regular feats to spend on it at level 12. ;)

[DeathlessOne]

Morgen wrote:

Wow, that's interesting. I didn't even know some of these feats existed. XD

I get exposed to a LOT of feats. Mostly because I love to build characters (especially unique ones) in Herolab, which our gaming group has heavily invested in, and because I am a GM that pretty much allows everything except 3rd party stuff. You’d be surprised at the stuff I’ve seen.

Quote:

Thanks DeathlessOne.

Anytime. Always glad to help.

[Dilvias]

I'm going to suggest Oread (Advanced Template) Unchained monk. The reason why I was asking about the level is at 12th the Unchained version gets Diamond soul and a spell resistance of 22. If you are interested, I can give you a full build.

[Morgen]

Yeah, it looks like at 12th they can select that ki power. What were you thinking? Oread, eh?

[DeathlessOne]

Dilvias wrote:

I'm going to suggest Oread (Advanced Template) Unchained monk. The reason why I was asking about the level is at 12th the Unchained version gets Diamond soul and a spell resistance of 22. If you are interested, I can give you a full build.

Unchained Monk is a good choice too. I always forget about them. Anyways, my Bloodrager has SR22 at 12th level as well, so don’t let that swing your decision. Compare the versatility difference and survivability.

[Dilvias]

Okay, here is the sample build of an Oread unchained monk:

Spoiler:

Oread (Advanced Template) Unchained Monk 12 (granite skin alterate racial trait)

Str: 22/28 (+4 enhancement, +2 ability increase) Dex: 17/22 (+4 enhancement, +1 ability increase) Con: 15 int 14 Wis: 20/26 (+6 enhancement) Cha: 9

Skills: Acrobatics, Climb, Perception, Sense Motive, Stealth, Swim

Feats/Ki powers or style strikes:
1st: dodge, crane style
2nd: Combat Reflexes
3rd: Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)
4th: /Barkskin (Qinggong power)
5th: Crane Wing/Flying Kick
6th: Deflect Arrows/Sudden Speed
7th: Crane Riposte
8th: /Abundant Step
9th: Dimensional Agility/Defensive Spin
10th: Improved Critical (Unarmed)/Furious Defense
11th: Dimensional Assault
12th: /Diamond Soul

Gear: Belt of physical might: +4 Str, +4 Dex (40k), Monk's Robe (13k), Boots of Striding and Spring (5.5k), Headband of wisdom +6 (36k), Amulet of mighty fists +3 (36k), Cloak of resistance +5 (25k), Handy Haversack (2k), Ring of protection +4 (32k), 10.5k in other items (be sure to have several potions of mage armor or a pearl of power if you have a friendly wizard)

Unarmed strike: +24 to hit (+12 BAB, +9 str, +3 enhancement, +1 Weapon focus, -1 fighting defensively) for 2d8+12, flurry for +24/+24/+24/+19/+14

Move: 70' (100' with sudden speed) or Abundant Step (880')

AC: 36 base (10+4 class bonus, +6 dex, +8 wis, +4 deflection, +3 natural armor, +1 dodge feat), fighting defensively +7, barkskin (+5 natural armor enhancement), mage armor potion or spell (+4 armor), +4 defensive spin, +4 furious defense for a total of 60 AC when fully defending against an opponent you hit, 56 otherwise

Saves: Fort +15, Ref +19, Will +17, Spell Resistance 22 with Diamond Soul

[DeathlessOne]

Morgen wrote:

Oh and Lesser Celestial Totem is in Champions of Purity I thought? And Raging Brutality requires a BAB of 12 and I don't have any regular feats to spend on it at level 12. ;)

Sorry, I missed your edit.

Hmm, darn. I must have missed a flag in Herolab to block out that splatbook. Apologies. That certainly cuts the healing down a bit, 5d6 vs 5d6+12. As for the level 12 feat, you do get a bonus feat from Bloodrager levels.

Hmm, about that healing thing... if we could somehow get Juggernaut Pauldrons (or Diehard and Endurance), we could take advantage of the Guarded Life and Guarded Life, Greater, to double up on healing at really low health. As non-lethal damage is healed in equal amounts to lethal, your Lay on Hands serve double duty. Since your CON score should be in the high 20’s, it would take a sizable blast to actually kill you outright.

[Morgen]

The Oread monk certainly looks hard to hit. Wow.

The bonus feat at 12th level for bloodrager has to be bought from the list of bloodline feats I though DeathlessOne.

[Shiroi]

If you want to be cruel there's a lot of awful things you can do with stuff like dust of dryness, dust of choking and sneezing, dust of darkness, imperial glue... Relatively cheap items that are probably on your list. You can go all out on something like Greater Blind Fight and dust of darkness or some smoke grenades to make a one on one fight very one sided.

You can also do rude things with grapple rules. Basically anything in this game can be taken to an extreme and when it is, one on one pvp becomes a joke.