|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
I admit I don't know the best way to go about this. But there's got to be a way to grapple people without requiring a two page flowchart to be on hand at all times.
I'd also like a little more clarity on how many things one creature can grapple at once. I feel like some monsters somehow can "grapple" four people even though that's a little ridiculous for anything but the most bonkers enemies.
But please don't simplify to the extent that it loses realism. I personally like the current grapple rules (well, except the part about taking a penalty to the CMB check based on damage taken during the provoked AoO. We don't need more reasons for it to be a terrible idea to grapple someone without Improved Grapple.)
Personally, I'm hoping PF2e more-or-less does away with CMBs and CMB builds. I think they are very often over-powered and almost always just plain silly. I particularly hate the whole reach weapon/trip combo, though disarms and overruns are not far behind, and grapples just after them.
Currently, it's just too easy for a CMB-specialized character to succeed at whatever it's CMB is. There are numerous feats and archetypes that provide an almost unlimited number of CMB bonuses, and it's very hard to "defend" against them unless one spends a lot of feats getting CMD bonuses.
I gather that PF2e will not even have CMB or CMD, and I think that's a most excellent start.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Personally, I'm hoping PF2e more-or-less does away with CMBs and CMB builds. I think they are very often over-powered and almost always just plain silly. I particularly hate the whole reach weapon/trip combo, though disarms and overruns are not far behind, and grapples just after them.
Wow, I believe that is the first time I've ever heard someone consider combat maneuvers to be overpowered. They're usually considered weak, situational, and too hard to pull off.
Personally, I love combat maneuvers for the tactical flexibility they allow, and one reason I love playing my brawler is that he can do any combat maneuver he wants. But I definitely don't think they are overpowered.
Personally, I'm hoping PF2e more-or-less does away with CMBs and CMB builds. I think they are very often over-powered and almost always just plain silly. I particularly hate the whole reach weapon/trip combo, though disarms and overruns are not far behind, and grapples just after them.Wow, I believe that is the first time I've ever heard someone consider combat maneuvers to be overpowered. They're usually considered weak, situational, and too hard to pull off.
Personally, I love combat maneuvers for the tactical flexibility they allow, and one reason I love playing my brawler is that he can do any combat maneuver he wants. But I definitely don't think they are overpowered.
My experience is limited to Society play, but almost all the CMB builds I see as either a player or GM make a mockery of many encounters - continually disarming the big bad so it can't attack, tripping huge quadrupeds with reach weapons which provokes AoO which they try to stand, making multiple overruns at level 6. These are only a few of things that I've come to know and loathe.
This was actually in the Podcast. It's an Athletics attack vs. Reflex save (IE: Reflex+10 score)
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
My experience is limited to Society play, but almost all the CMB builds I see as either a player or GM make a mockery of many encounters - continually disarming the big bad so it can't attack, tripping huge quadrupeds with reach weapons which provokes AoO which they try to stand, making multiple overruns at level 6. These are only a few of things that I've come to know and loathe.Personally, I'm hoping PF2e more-or-less does away with CMBs and CMB builds. I think they are very often over-powered and almost always just plain silly. I particularly hate the whole reach weapon/trip combo, though disarms and overruns are not far behind, and grapples just after them.Wow, I believe that is the first time I've ever heard someone consider combat maneuvers to be overpowered. They're usually considered weak, situational, and too hard to pull off.
Personally, I love combat maneuvers for the tactical flexibility they allow, and one reason I love playing my brawler is that he can do any combat maneuver he wants. But I definitely don't think they are overpowered.
They are much less powerful than builds designed to do crazy amounts of damage. The problem isn't CMB. You're player with players who like very powerful characters. They would just focus on something else instead and get similar results. Of all the ways to take over a game combat maneuvers are on the low end of the scale.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This was actually in the Podcast. It's an Athletics attack vs. Reflex save (IE: Reflex+10 score)
Suplex-centric fighter inbound. I'm doin' it. First PF2 character.
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
This was actually in the Podcast. It's an Athletics attack vs. Reflex save (IE: Reflex+10 score)Suplex-centric fighter inbound. I'm doin' it. First PF2 character.
Yes, do it! Name him Sabin, in honor of the classics.
Grappling was vastly simplified in Starfinder, and while I feel that in the process it was a bit excessively depowered, its certainly a lot easier to run. Its completely done away with the flowcharts, the situational modifiers, and the unclear restrictions.
In Starfinder:
I'll bet you that PF2E is going to either use the same rules or very similar ones.
Agree with Grapple simplication as a need. Would also like to add that I'm always disappointed that big (big is of course a relative turn) humanoid monsters can't simply grapple smaller foes using only one hand.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Wow, I believe that is the first time I've ever heard someone consider combat maneuvers to be overpowered. They're usually considered weak, situational, and too hard to pull off.
Personally, I love combat maneuvers for the tactical flexibility they allow, and one reason I love playing my brawler is that he can do any combat maneuver he wants. But I definitely don't think they are overpowered.
"A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring."-- Alexander Pope, An Essay on Criticism (1711 A.D.)
Combat maneuvers in Pathfinder 1st Edition are a "drink deep or taste not" mechanic. If a player invests a lot, it works and many medium-sized opponents are helpless against it (huge opponents, on the other hand, have extremely high CMD). If a player does not invest in preventing the attack of opportunity, then the maneuver is not worth the risk.
A few classes, such as brawler, can dabble in combat maneuvers. My barbarian did, because she deliberately provoked an attack of opporunity due to movement from her large opponents so that the squishy rogue friend could safely close in. Then, because the opponent had no AoO available, she would try tripping him or disarming him safely herself.
This was actually in the Podcast. It's an Athletics attack vs. Reflex save (IE: Reflex+10 score)
That is so much easier than the current grappling rules! I like it.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Bruno, a handsome and beautiful tetori, hope there will be options for higher-level wrestlers to grapple multiple foes or do damage during a grapple. Part of the “grapple fantasy” is headlocking a dum-dum mook under each arm or bearhugging a babymuscle baddie to death.
We do know thatbthwyve removed CMB and CMD, according to the live play podcast.
Grappling may still be hghky complex (to the point where it requires a four page diagram to understand like in PF1), but it won't use CMB or CMD anymore.
It will be based on skills, instead.
If they just get rid of the it changes this number and that number which changes all the numbers you need it would be fine as far as understanding it goes.
It also shouldn't be an auto fail to cast spells in a grapple like it is in pathfinder. The option shouldn't be there if an auto fail is too powerful but you need to roll a 26 on a 20 sided die is fine.