Who is a better tank?

[Atalius]

Valid point frosty. The cleric is outmatched, less BaB, less HP, worse saves. However landing that touch attack if he so chooses is pretty easy, and the result can be more debilitating then a smite to the face.

[PossibleCabbage]

I think a big difference is that the Paladin gets a world-class defense and potent offense just from class features and power attack. On the other hand, everything the cleric's got is something they have to plan for- at character creation when they choose domains and every single day when they prepare spells.

So it's hard to compare a class that just gets mechanics that make them tanky just by signing up, and a class that you're going to have to build specifically for whatever you're going to do.

I mean, in a vacuum the cleric either has all the stuff a cleric could have, or none of it; sure you know all the spells, but you only ever get 2 domains.

[Soulgear]

If you're looking for an offensive beast that can self-heal, crush the enemy, and front-line, look into this.

Oracle/Barb/Rage Prophet

Here's a build I ran up to 17 and handily served as our groups front-line tank every step of the way. Might be the funnest character I've ever played.

Easily self buffed to 36 str, 260+ hp, rage, and 50+ intimidate. Feel free to change any of the feats to suit your purposes.

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2un3f?The-Oracle-of-Battle-The-Prophet-of-Rage- Is#1

[Ryan Freire]

You could also take 4 levels of High guardian archetype fighter before going paladin. If you do a polearm reach build you'll have a crazy strong bodyguard ability. It is focused on protecting one person for sure but its a GRIP of free "tank" feats, full bab and an immediate action move adjacent to your ward. It gives you combat reflexes based off strength, and if you already have the feat it gives you stand still.

[Moonheart]

avr wrote:

Activating smite is a swift action too - not even the paladin can follow Moonheart's plan.

Yup, my bad, got a little too carried away by adding smite.

Was tired too.

Anyway, that doesn't change much the fact that the paladin is already a wonder of resilience without sacrifying -any- of his offensive power.

Atalius wrote:

Valid point frosty. The cleric is outmatched, less BaB, less HP, worse saves. However landing that touch attack if he so chooses is pretty easy, and the result can be more debilitating then a smite to the face.

I don't know how people feel about it, but to me, there is very very few situations that use of a standard action would be useful.

Understand that doing so, you are: locating a target vulnerable to the effect, then perhaps making a concentration check, then get to melee range of your ennemy, then making an attack roll, then hoping for a failed save... only to debilitate ONE opponent.

An arcane spellcaster have spell that do the same on several opponents at the same time, without getting too close, and without needing an attack roll.

A class/archetype truly made for this, like the Magus or the Phantom Blade, do the same WHILE doing a full attack, and even earn an extra attack doing so.

A paladin just wack a full attack in the face of the opponent... and still probably do better than you, because there is no better debilitating status than -DEAD-.

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Truly, the problem comparing a paladin and a cleric as a tank, is simply how few the paladin has to sacrifice to be one of the hardest thing to kill on the battlefield.

Yes, you can be more resilient with a cleric. But you can't be as useful as a whole taking the tank role with your cleric.

[Atalius]

indeed, I merely mentioned the touch attack because you mentioned another melee move the paladins smite. Cleric would be far better off casting defensively toe to toe (or reach metamagic)spells of the arcane nature which wizards have, clerics have several of them also. He has enough aoe spells on his list to end fights with 1 standard action. This would involve no attack roll, just a saving throw. I've never played a Paladin so I'm not sure if he can end an encounter of multiple foes with 1 standard action, maybe he can I don't know. I am currently playing a front-line Cleric, I will let you know in a couple months my findings once I am level 12+ and the build has arrived.

[Sara Marie]

I've removed a post. Do not use "rape" in a casual, trivializing or dismissive manner. If you need context for why this is not okay, I recommend this article: Stop Saying ‘Rape’ Out of Context By Amelia Shroyer.