Enchanter vs. Immunities

[Calybos1]

It seems like a lot of creatures are flat-out immune to spells of the Enchantment school, especially at higher levels. Are there any ways to make an enchanter wizard (or bard) more viable in PFS-legal games?

I'm not talking about boosting save DCs or increasing Charisma; I mean dealing with enemies who simply ignore anything Enchantment-based.

[cavernshark]

Calybos1 wrote:

It seems like a lot of creatures are flat-out immune to spells of the Enchantment school, especially at higher levels. Are there any ways to make an enchanter wizard (or bard) more viable in PFS-legal games?

I'm not talking about boosting save DCs or increasing Charisma; I mean dealing with enemies who simply ignore anything Enchantment-based.

Vary your spell selection. I have a level 14 Enchanter in PFS. You only need to use your bonus slots for enchantment. The rest are fair game for buffs, control, even damage spells. If you can't control it help burn it down. Most enchantment spells are just variations on a theme so you should only need a few a day anyway. Treat enchantment like a signature move you use when you can but be prepaired not to use it. As far as bypassing goes, thredonic metamagic for undead, verdant for plants, and coaxing for ooze/vermin.

For bards you have a less varied spell list but it still doesn't make much sense to take more than one offensive enchantment every other spell level or so.

[Grandlounge]

A one level dip in crossblooded sorcerer with two of the following fey, undead, serpentine, impossible. Serpentine provides most coverage IMO.

There are also metamagic feats that help with this.

[avr]

Any wizard straight up has other options they can use. Also there's metamagic feats which allow some immune targets to be affected (threnodic spell for undead, coaxing spell for oozes IIRC).

For bards those +2 metamagics are too expensive to use unless you get traits to reduce their cost on some spell. Which is obviously limited in effect. They might use metamagic rods, or more likely they'd default to buffs on some of their friends.

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

Keep hordes of charmed and dominated minions around to handle stuff you can't affect directly. People seem to forget this about Enchanters.

[AlastarOG]

Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:

Keep hordes of charmed and dominated minions around to handle stuff you can't affect directly. People seem to forget this about Enchanters.

This rapidly gets tedious and boring I think it's why people don't do it.

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

You mean like summoning monsters to do it for you? That seems to be the standard solution I see everywhere.

Boring or not, that is the strength of the Enchanter and summoner (as in someone who summons things, not the eidolon business) - getting someone else to do stuff for you.

If you want to play X you just might have to play to their strengths.

[Dave Justus]

AlastarOG wrote:

Bjørn Røyrvik wrote:

Keep hordes of charmed and dominated minions around to handle stuff you can't affect directly. People seem to forget this about Enchanters.

This rapidly gets tedious and boring I think it's why people don't do it.

That is pretty subjective.

Regardless, it is one of the main balancing mechanisms for enchantment. While there are plenty that are immune to what you can do, when it does work you arguably get more bang for the buck than any other spell of a similar level, often not only removing an enemy, but also gaining an ally. I'd say if you don't want to use mentally controlled foes as allies, then playing an enchanter is much harder, and much less mechanically viable.

[AlastarOG]

Indeed.

My group tends to not do that so my opinion was that, but it is part of the whole balancing thing of enchantment.

I'll add dominated and charmed to my list of debuffs in the lone wolf template thread. Care to swing by and give it a quick read Dave Justus, I find your input very on point from what I've read so far.

[Calybos1]

That's less of an option for PFS sessions, though.

[Saldiven]

Are lesser metamagic rods something that can be obtained by mid- to late-levels in PFS?

Coaxing Spell - Oozes and Vermin
Threnodic - Undead
Verdant - Plant

One level dip in Cross-blooded Sorcerer with Serpent/Impossible combination adds Beasts, Magical Beasts, Monstrous Humanoids, and Constructs to the list.

[Grandlounge]

Rods are easy to afford in pfs.

Packing a few spells to cover weakness is also good. I like crossblooded fey/serpent. Then take create pit (I have seen multiple cr 14 constructs fall to this spell) and a spell like command undead or chill touch.

[Nomadical]

To my knowledge there are no PFS legal sources for metamagic rods of either coaxing or verdant.

[Calybos1]

Aren't metamagic options unusable by spontaneous casters like bards?

[Mass Kneebreaker]

Only a foolish wizard would put all his eggs in one basket. Even one of my favorite characters, A fire obsessed Wizard, still had non-fire spells, as he didn't want to be just rolling his thumbs when a red dragon showed up.

[VRMH]

The trick to being a successful enchanter is to pick your targets, not your spells. Seek out victims who are susceptible, ensorcel them and have your new best friends fight the enemy.
Though I doubt that is an option in PFS.