Meaning, the odds of it not happening are incredibly low. There is a small chance that existing tumor protectors might get to stay, but I doubt there will be any new ones.
So, I am curious what exactly is the change to the Wolf Style feats? They did something to Wolf Savage right?
Moreover, in order to use a rule in PFS, you need to own the book. I don't own Ultimate Wilderness, and I intend not to! If they want to make it illegal for me to have a PFS Protector Familiar, it is necessary for them to update the rules somewhere else.
How'd the fencing grace nerf go from being printed in Advanced Class Origins to Ultimate Intrigue. This is basically the same thing. Except the existing creature/class-feature itself's existence comes into question.
So, I am curious what exactly is the change to the Wolf Style feats? They did something to Wolf Savage right?
Savaging now does d4 Cha or Con damage or becomes fatigued (attacker's choice of the three) instead of a bestow curse. Oh, and you can't reduce an ability score to zero this way.
So, I am curious what exactly is the change to the Wolf Style feats? They did something to Wolf Savage right?Savaging now does d4 Cha or Con damage or becomes fatigued (attacker's choice of the three) instead of a bestow curse. Oh, and you can't reduce an ability score to zero this way.
Thank you for the reply, I appreciate the info. However, wow that is terrible. *Shrug* Another reason not to buy Paizo stuff.
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It seems to me that there is a distinct possibility of it not happening. Not all the sections of Pathfinder Unchained were approved for Pathfinder Society play. It is possible that not all sections of Wilderness being adopted, either.
Moreover, in order to use a rule in PFS, you need to own the book. I don't own Ultimate Wilderness, and I intend not to! If they want to make it illegal for me to have a PFS Protector Familiar, it is necessary for them to update the rules somewhere else.
Meanwhile, This uncertainty certainly affects my willingness to purchase the Familiar Folio. They already blew their chance to get me to buy Inner Sea Gods with what they did with Potion Glutton. Now they are about to miss out on my money again with Familiar Folio!
No doubt much of UW won’t be approved for PFS, but this screams of a change made for and at the request of PFS.
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then why didn't pfs just house rule it to work the way they wanted just like they do with everything else and not ruin things for the rest of usNo doubt much of UW won’t be approved for PFS, but this screams of a change made for and at the request of PFS.It seems to me that there is a distinct possibility of it not happening. Not all the sections of Pathfinder Unchained were approved for Pathfinder Society play. It is possible that not all sections of Wilderness being adopted, either.
Moreover, in order to use a rule in PFS, you need to own the book. I don't own Ultimate Wilderness, and I intend not to! If they want to make it illegal for me to have a PFS Protector Familiar, it is necessary for them to update the rules somewhere else.
Meanwhile, This uncertainty certainly affects my willingness to purchase the Familiar Folio. They already blew their chance to get me to buy Inner Sea Gods with what they did with Potion Glutton. Now they are about to miss out on my money again with Familiar Folio!
*Mourns Crane Style and MoMS*
It seems to me that there is a distinct possibility of it not happening. Not all the sections of Pathfinder Unchained were approved for Pathfinder Society play. It is possible that not all sections of Wilderness being adopted, either.
Moreover, in order to use a rule in PFS, you need to own the book. I don't own Ultimate Wilderness, and I intend not to! If they want to make it illegal for me to have a PFS Protector Familiar, it is necessary for them to update the rules somewhere else.
Meanwhile, This uncertainty certainly affects my willingness to purchase the Familiar Folio. They already blew their chance to get me to buy Inner Sea Gods with what they did with Potion Glutton. Now they are about to miss out on my money again with Familiar Folio!
It'll be like they did with the adventurer's guide and the resonant power of ioun stones. If you own an old source you can use it for a source of ownership for the new material, but you must all use the old material rules.
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then why didn't pfs just house rule it to work the way they wanted just like they do with everything else and not ruin things for the rest of usNo doubt much of UW won’t be approved for PFS, but this screams of a change made for and at the request of PFS.It seems to me that there is a distinct possibility of it not happening. Not all the sections of Pathfinder Unchained were approved for Pathfinder Society play. It is possible that not all sections of Wilderness being adopted, either.
Moreover, in order to use a rule in PFS, you need to own the book. I don't own Ultimate Wilderness, and I intend not to! If they want to make it illegal for me to have a PFS Protector Familiar, it is necessary for them to update the rules somewhere else.
Meanwhile, This uncertainty certainly affects my willingness to purchase the Familiar Folio. They already blew their chance to get me to buy Inner Sea Gods with what they did with Potion Glutton. Now they are about to miss out on my money again with Familiar Folio!
That's honestly a good question, because if we look at the things they've fixed thus far, they were primarily PFS issues that could have been solved within PFS.
The MoMS abuse could've been fixed by banning the archetype altogether (thereby stopping the abuse). The Crane Style feat chain could've also been banned (or instead of the archetype, though it was really only OP at the levels where it wasn't supposed to normally have been available). This also goes for things like Desna's Shooting Star or pre-errata Divine Protection, which were outright banned before it could even be on a character in PFS, and the former of which is the only feat of its kind (Divine Fighting Techniques) to be banned (and for obvious reason).
Items like Jingasa and Falcon's Aim Bracers and other "powergamer" offenders could have similarly been banned (as was the case with items like Quick Runner's Shirt, though that still received nerfs, even after being banned from PFS), since they were always constantly taken over other items from the Core Rulebook.
But what I don't get is how other "powergaming" offenders like Fate's Favored or Dervish Dance are still permitted, even though they are probably the worst things to permit among the things that have already been nerfed that were of similar caliber.
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No doubt much of UW won’t be approved for PFS, but this screams of a change made for and at the request of PFS.It seems to me that there is a distinct possibility of it not happening. Not all the sections of Pathfinder Unchained were approved for Pathfinder Society play. It is possible that not all sections of Wilderness being adopted, either.
Moreover, in order to use a rule in PFS, you need to own the book. I don't own Ultimate Wilderness, and I intend not to! If they want to make it illegal for me to have a PFS Protector Familiar, it is necessary for them to update the rules somewhere else.
Meanwhile, This uncertainty certainly affects my willingness to purchase the Familiar Folio. They already blew their chance to get me to buy Inner Sea Gods with what they did with Potion Glutton. Now they are about to miss out on my money again with Familiar Folio!
Not really? There were a lot of threads it cropped up in, and the creator of the familiar archetypes mentioned there were changes he wanted made to them (like Mauler’s battle form being a polymorph effect and Figment not working for Shaman). You can blame PFS if you want, but I don’t think you’re right.
Like it or no, pfs is a great big petri dish that attempts to calibrate power.
Power gamers glommed onto protector tumors because they were exploitable.
It got nerfed.
<shrug>
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The MoMS "nerf" was a good thing since it actually made the archetype better at what it was promised to be (e.g. the Kung Fu trope of a master switching between a ton of styles on the fly) with the whole "wildcard feat mechanic" allowing you to automatically have later feats in style chains for which you have prerequisites... after level 6. The previous MoMS was not actually very good at being a *Master* of *Many* styles (you could be a master of like 2 styles, or dabble in a few; it was mostly good as a 2-level dip to let people skip prerequisites.
That the Archetype doesn't fulfill its own fantasy was a good enough reason to fix it.
That's not true because you still have to have the ranks in any skill a feat in the style chain has as a prerequisite.... so you're still really only be good at one or two.
There are a bunch of combat styles that don't ask for any skill points as prerequisites though, including some good ones: Pummeling, Crane, Ascetic, Jabbing, Grabbing, Kraken, Snapping Turtle, Spear-Dancing, Tiger, Panther, etc.
So since you do still get 4 skills/level as a 10 INT monk (5 if you're human, and you probably want to be for the extra feat) you can manage to stack things like Crane Style with Snake Style and Panther Style pretty easily. The investment in acrobatics and sense motive were probably things you should have been doing anyway, and the acrobatics you invest for Snake Style also let you get Dragon Style.
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Tumor familiar is a nerf that predominantly affects non 9 level casters..you can bet your bippy it goes into PFS.
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Oh people care because of PFS. I know in our group, you can use whatever Paizo thing you want, so a repeated worse version is ignored.
But most of our PF games rush to level 7 then slow down until the GM wants to rush to 20.
PFS isn't really Pathfinder any more than something like Kirthfinder with all of its house rules.
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PFS isn't really Pathfinder any more than something like Kirthfinder with all of its house rules.
It is moreso when PFS starts to slowly apply their rules/complaints to the base Pathfinder system.
Not everyone in PFS is clamouring for nerfs. I for one cannot understand why we are seeing so many nerfs these days, and I do not like it one little bit.
5e is popular.
5e characters are very simple but vastly overpowered.
Nerf all cool martial options to make them more like 5e.
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Not everyone in PFS is clamouring for nerfs. I for one cannot understand why we are seeing so many nerfs these days, and I do not like it one little bit.
I think we're just at the point in Pathfinder's life cycle where "collating and reprinting" is a thing that's going to happen a lot (and that Paizo has a second game to support makes this more likely) and any time you take something from a Player Companion and put in a hardback you're going to have more eyes on it, and the PDT tends to be more careful when it comes to limiting potential abuse than the people who write the player companions.
So I think it's less "hey let's nerf some stuff" than "Hmm... this is a good archetype/feat/spell, so let's reprint it, but we should fix the problems with it."
I mean, it's not all stuff that nerfs martial characters, snowball doesn't bypass SR anymore, which makes it more in line with other 1st level spells.
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So I think it's less "hey let's nerf some stuff" than "Hmm... this is a good archetype/feat/spell, so let's reprint it, but we should fix the problems with it."
Nuking options into oblivion isn't really fixing any problems. It's just taking the problem and turning it into a useless option, which is a different sort of problem, one that Paizo isn't obligated to fix because to them, a useless option is functioning exactly as intended.
They more often than not say "This archetype/feat/spell is too good compared to XYZ Core option, so let's nuke it to oblivion so it never becomes a problem again."
And a lot of times, the option being nuked isn't really unreasonable, and numerous times options have been nuked have been solely from PFS complaints.
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An option that is to good is labbled power creep, but you can opt out of taking a strong option or choose to use it to help make a bad build good. Some people will over optimize and make a game boring but you can solve this by having a conversation.
Most nerfed option are bad to the point of disuse. I have never seen a new jingasa. These just become bloat. They sit in the pile of "if my gm throws it in loot I will wear it until I sell it". They make resources harder to go through for gms and players while adding nothing to the game.
An option that is to good is labbled power creep, but you can opt out of taking a strong option or choose to use it to help make a bad build good. Some people will over optimize and make a game boring but you can solve this by having a conversation.
Most nerfed option are bad to the point of disuse. I have never seen a new jingasa. These just become bloat. They sit in the pile of "if my gm throws it in loot I will wear it until I sell it". They make resources harder to go through for gms and players while adding nothing to the game.
But your argument can also be used against you to an absurd degree. You really think that Divine Protection was fine the way it was? You think Pageant of the Peacock is fine in *any* game? What about Sacred Geometry?
You notice that the content that was nerfed rarely shows up because it was attacked too hard, but did you ever pay attention to the rest of the content that is in line with it? Like, say, Bulette style or something? No, you've probably never heard of them. There's a false equivalency in your argument that implies you're aware and regularly see all content in the system.
Yes, but can you still harvest your tumor familiar's organs to make bioconstructs? My dwarf alchemist needs to know.
divine protection was fine as it was now its just a hot steaming pile of garbage
That's not fair to "hot steaming piles". Some of those can still be used for some purpose, like a compost pile. Divine protection current claim to fame is taking up valuable space in both the FAQ/errata list AND the book it's was published in.
An option that is to good is labbled power creep, but you can opt out of taking a strong option or choose to use it to help make a bad build good. Some people will over optimize and make a game boring but you can solve this by having a conversation.
Most nerfed option are bad to the point of disuse. I have never seen a new jingasa. These just become bloat. They sit in the pile of "if my gm throws it in loot I will wear it until I sell it". They make resources harder to go through for gms and players while adding nothing to the game.
But your argument can also be used against you to an absurd degree. You really think that Divine Protection was fine the way it was? You think Pageant of the Peacock is fine in *any* game? What about Sacred Geometry?
You notice that the content that was nerfed rarely shows up because it was attacked too hard, but did you ever pay attention to the rest of the content that is in line with it? Like, say, Bulette style or something? No, you've probably never heard of them. There's a false equivalency in your argument that implies you're aware and regularly see all content in the system.
Funny you use Bulette style as an example, me and Grandlounge were theorycrafting a Bulette Style eidolon just two weeks ago ;)
Yeah actually i was looking at that iron juggernaut or whatever antipaladin w bulette style as an antagonist
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An option that is to good is labbled power creep, but you can opt out of taking a strong option or choose to use it to help make a bad build good. Some people will over optimize and make a game boring but you can solve this by having a conversation.
Most nerfed option are bad to the point of disuse. I have never seen a new jingasa. These just become bloat. They sit in the pile of "if my gm throws it in loot I will wear it until I sell it". They make resources harder to go through for gms and players while adding nothing to the game.
But your argument can also be used against you to an absurd degree. You really think that Divine Protection was fine the way it was? You think Pageant of the Peacock is fine in *any* game? What about Sacred Geometry?
You notice that the content that was nerfed rarely shows up because it was attacked too hard, but did you ever pay attention to the rest of the content that is in line with it? Like, say, Bulette style or something? No, you've probably never heard of them. There's a false equivalency in your argument that implies you're aware and regularly see all content in the system.
False equivalence. None of that lessens the accuracy of Grandlounge's statement. They could "nerf" the things you mentioned without making them unusable, but going by history the options are likely to either be ignored or stamped into the dust rather than simply dialed back to manageable levels.
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I heard the Brachiation Kineticist talent got changed.The Occult Origins text is
You can gain a climb speed equal to your base speed, which you can also use to swing from tree to tree in heavily forested or jungle areas, or from wooden supports.The Ultimate Wilderness text is:
You can gain a climb speed equal to your base speed when moving through forested terrain.So I guess the difference is that you no longer have a climb speed if there's no trees around (e.g. you can't climb up buildings). For my money, Brachiation wasn't an especially strong choice for a 3rd level utility for a phytokineticist before the book came out, I'd take Kinetic Restoration or warp wood or greater elemental whispers (if the GM okays it) instead.
Well good thing I don't own Ultimate Wilderness or I'd have to use the new Brachiation.
It's a good thing I own Ultimate Thread Reanimation for situations like this.
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It's a good thing I own Ultimate Thread Reanimation for situations like this.
Pfft. How many GMs allow that? Worse than mythic, I swear.
I need to buy it. ;)
It's a good thing I own Ultimate Thread Reanimation for situations like this.
We've got plenty in stock, for those who don't own it yet!
"This is an excellent specimen for necromantic purification and Perfection through Undeath" the Swarm echoes in unison. "Death is only the beginning....All shall be purged from their weakness of flesh!"
I’m not aware of any good new options but the old options are still pretty good. A figment familiar tumor with die for your master is pretty cool.