I see a lot of comments about cold iron/silver/adamantine weapons in various threads, but how often do you really need these qualities in PFS play? PFS loot is restricted, and the expense of making a weapon out of adamatine is prohibitive.
It seems that most people want to go to ammunition blanches to avoid these costs. Is that really the way to go?
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My rogue always carries a couple non-magical weapons made of special materials, just in case.
Daggers are light weight and cheap, even when made of most special materials. (Cold Iron Dagger = 4gp, Alchemical Silver = 22gp)
Brass Knuckles are also a good choice for a backup emergency weapon made of special materials..light weight, cheap, and does bludgeoning damage instead of a daggers slashing/piercing damage.
Plus, every class in the game is proficient in both of the above.
Adamantine is a solid choice for a single primary weapon..+3000gp to be able to bypass hardness up to hardness 20 means anything not made of adamantine takes full damage from your attacks...you can easily cut through doors and locked chests when no one is playing a rogue.
Constructs? No problem.
Want to build a character based around the Sunder maneuver? Adamantine is practically mandatory...and really funny. Laugh as your enemies look on in horror as you destroy all their gear, making them worthless in combat.
There are some other special materials which can fill niche roles as well. I have a Bloodrager/Dragon Disciple who uses a Fire-Forged Steel greataxe and plate armor in combination with his 12 points of fire resistance to quite good effect.
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Adamantine Weapons only cost 3000, and are only truly necessary for pure melee classes. After a few t3-7/t5-9 campaigns, they'll have enough to upgrade to an adamantine weapon, even enchant it.
Blanch is better for ammunition- as you can coat 10 pieces of ammo with it. it's most cost effective than buying ammunition of those types.
Though, on a weapon- it only lasts one hit.
In regards to relevance- in high level PFS games, be expecting enemies with DR. By that type, martial classes should have invested in upgrading their weapons and armor.
In my experience with PFS (maybe a year and a half?), there has been a very wide variety of foes, so needing special materials to overcome DR will definitely come into play periodically--sometimes even at low levels (an imp in a tier 1-5, for example). Most of my characters have picked up a silver weapon and/or cold iron weapon as a backup after a couple of levels. I haven't yet seen a pressing need to invest in an enchanted silver or cold iron weapon. And to be honest, I keep forgetting that weapon blanches are an option; they're probably only cost-effective for ammunition, and most of my PFS PCs are melee types.
I have played in a number of scenarios where an adamantine weapon would have been a huge help against a construct or object. But as you say, the cost is prohibitive, especially considering that a +1 weapon made without special materials is cheaper and more generally useful. (I rarely see adamantine weapons in home games, either, due to the cost.)
On the other hand, one of the regulars at my local PFS venue obsesses over acquiring weapons of every core special material as soon as his characters can afford them, so that he will always be prepared.
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In my experience with PFS (maybe a year and a half?), there has been a very wide variety of foes, so needing special materials to overcome DR will definitely come into play periodically--sometimes even at low levels (an imp in a tier 1-5, for example). Most of my characters have picked up a silver weapon and/or cold iron weapon as a backup after a couple of levels. I haven't yet seen a pressing need to invest in an enchanted silver or cold iron weapon. And to be honest, I keep forgetting that weapon blanches are an option; they're probably only cost-effective for ammunition, and most of my PFS PCs are melee types.
I have played in a number of scenarios where an adamantine weapon would have been a huge help against a construct or object. But as you say, the cost is prohibitive, especially considering that a +1 weapon made without special materials is cheaper and more generally useful. (I rarely see adamantine weapons in home games, either, due to the cost.)
On the other hand, one of the regulars at my local PFS venue obsesses over acquiring weapons of every core special material as soon as his characters can afford them, so that he will always be prepared.
Most players have never heard of the Melee Contingency kit.
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I like my Blunt Weapons to be Silver, because Silver Piercing and Slashing weapons do -1 Damage, and Silver clubs and hammers work just fine.
Don't forget, Mithral weapons count as silver -vs- DR, and do not suffer the -1 penalty, or reduced hardness and HP.
502gp for a Mithral Dagger is not a bad investment at all.
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I see a lot of comments about cold iron/silver/adamantine weapons in various threads, but how often do you really need these qualities in PFS play? PFS loot is restricted, and the expense of making a weapon out of adamatine is prohibitive.
It seems that most people want to go to ammunition blanches to avoid these costs. Is that really the way to go?
Let's start with cold iron. A cold iron weapon costs double the price of the normal weapon. So a cold iron dagger costs 4gp, and buying cold iron arrows instead of normal arrows means you pay 2GP per 20 instead of 1GP per 20. This is so cheap, there's no good reason not to do it.
What do you get in return? Well, demons are a fairly common enemy, especially in season 5 adventures ("Year of the Demon"). DR starts at 5 and goes up to 10 around CR 5. So getting through that is definitely worth some gold. There's also a few other outsiders that get hurt by cold iron (Divs are going to feature this season) and fey.
The downside of cold iron is that it's more expensive to enchant. Makes it less attractive to enchant, and besides, you can raise the enhancement bonus on your weapon to +3 to get through that. But having a cold iron backup weapon is so cheap, you can't justify not doing it.
Silver is a bit more expensive, and has that annoying damage penalty on piercing and slashing weapons. DR/silver is also less common, we seem to fight more demons than devils. It's still not that expensive though, and you can have a masterwork silver heavy flail for only 495gp. That's about what you make on a L1 adventure.
Adamantine is more expensive, but it's worth it. There is no other really good way to get through Hardness (season 6!) and raising your enhancement bonus to +4 is really quite expensive. The Bane trick isn't as good because you see it on two common monsters with different types: constructs and spellcasters addicted to Stoneskin.
The question is, how expensive is 3000gp? It looks "prohibitively" expensive from a low-level perspective, but a tier 6-7 adventure typically has about 3,200gp loot. So at that level, it's the price of a single adventure - not that prohibitive.
So the better question is: when to buy an adamantine weapon? Should you wait to buy a magic weapon because you want it to be adamantine?
It's not safe to not have a way to penetrate DR/magic at level 3-4, because you'll occasionally need it (gargoyle CR 4, shadow CR 3). But you can bring some oils of bless weapon or magic weapon (50gp) to deal with those emergencies.
What with also spending money on armor and a cloak of resistance, I think an adamantine weapon becomes reasonably affordable around level 3-4. By level 4 you can expect to have collected the following amount of money:
Level 1: 3 x 500gp
Level 2: 3 x 500gp
Level 3: 3 x 1200gp
= 6600gp
Say that 1500gp goes to buying armor, 1000gp to a cloak of resistance, then you still have 4100gp left over to buy a cold iron, silver and adamantine weapon. After playing one adventure at level 4, you also have enough money to enchant your adamantine weapon to +1.
One important thing I noticed in the rules: +3 weapons and mithral count as silver and cold iron for DR (mithral only silver, though), but doesn't count for regeneration. Regeneration in PFS is rare, but I've seen regeneration/silver floating around.
On the whole, as said before, cold iron and silver are cheap enough you can't not buy them, and once you're earning three thousand gold per adventure or more, Adamantine is just a single adventure's worth of spending. Still pricey, sure, but I'd rather delay upgrading my cloak than not being able to deal with Stoneskin and/or constructs.
The Cold Iron Morningstar, which yields 1d8 of B&P goodness is obvious enough that most of my characters lug one around.
Weapon blanches are something I stumbled over in a thread, then saw in the 'things that will keep you alive' thread. I have no problem getting them for ammo.
It's the extra expense of the rare materials for melee weapons that I was primarily asking about, 'cause getting a +1 weapon is usually my first priority. Before getting a Cloak of Pro +1, or +1 armor. The defensive items are +5% to not getting hit/various saves. The +1 weapon is not just +5% to hit, it's also +1 damage _every_time you hit. Is this priority out of whack?
Ascalaphus - do you seriously take in three different weapons? What about weight/encumberance? Lugging around three greatswords isn't really practical IRL, though I guess the game let's you do it. It's easier when you have 2000 for a Handy Haversack... but that's a +1 weapon or a +1 armor & shield.
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I have each of the damage types and each of the metals on every character. On ranged characters I buy actually adamantine arrows and use blanches for everything else. Adamantine blanche does not get through hardness. I make these arrow durable.
There are lots of ways to make a silver weapon. For my money silversheen is the best. A few characteristics set it apart. There is no damage penalty and it is immune to rust. Rust monsters are not common but I have run across several and they are awful. If they get a hold of you nice new adamantine greatsword you might not be happy.
Cold iron dagger, 4 gp. Two damage types, can be thrown.
Cold iron spiked gauntlet, 10 gp. Always handy, pardon the pun.
Alchemical silver light mace, 25 gp.
Alchemical silver light hammer, 21 gp, though martial, has the added advantages of being throwable and ...well.. it's a hammer!
Durable cold iron arrow (or any ammo really), 2 gp each, PFS-craftable by Alchemists/Investigators. Not destroyed on a hit, unless you hit something like a caryatid column or they're caught in a subsequent 15 hp burning hands.
Adamantine weapon blanch, 100 gp, PFS-craftable & can be given away to carry over into succeeding PFS scenarios. Bake onto ten pieces of ammo. Lasts until you score a hit. Bake onto durable cold iron ammo, and it'll count as both adamantine and cold iron for the first hit. Many ammo types can be used as an improvised weapon. Important note: does NOT bypass hardness like true adamantine.
I do not know why silver has a -1 damage for P/S. Other legacy items were changed to suit Paizo. This should have been dropped. Wood (e.g. club, wooden stake) doesn't have a damage penalty for being softer-than-steel, why should silver? We are assumed to sharpen our steel weapons between encounters, and they don't lose effectiveness, why not the silver ones? It's an annoying piece of trivia, not worth the word-count of printing it. That being said, I have a character saving up for a tiny alchemical silver sap +1 of spell storing, intending to store cure serious wounds in it and whack allies in need of whacking.
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The Cold Iron Morningstar, which yields 1d8 of B&P goodness is obvious enough that most of my characters lug one around.
Weapon blanches are something I stumbled over in a thread, then saw in the 'things that will keep you alive' thread. I have no problem getting them for ammo.
It's the extra expense of the rare materials for melee weapons that I was primarily asking about, 'cause getting a +1 weapon is usually my first priority. Before getting a Cloak of Pro +1, or +1 armor. The defensive items are +5% to not getting hit/various saves. The +1 weapon is not just +5% to hit, it's also +1 damage _every_time you hit. Is this priority out of whack?
Ascalaphus - do you seriously take in three different weapons? What about weight/encumberance? Lugging around three greatswords isn't really practical IRL, though I guess the game let's you do it. It's easier when you have 2000 for a Handy Haversack... but that's a +1 weapon or a +1 armor & shield.
A cold iron or silver weapon are really cheap I get them before most other things. The +1 weapon is nice because it also gets you over a form of DR, DR magic. I also carry an oil of bless weapon for dr evil, and align weapon later.
I would avoid applying real world logic to the games. This advice is coming for a scientist who plays with a lot of engineers and chemists. Three weapons is not actually crazy and for many positions two was standard. If you want to make it more realistic you can us a pole arm like a Lucerne hammer with a back up longsword, and a spiked gauntlet.
A cold iron or silver weapon are really cheap I get them before most other things. The +1 weapon is nice because it also gets you over a form of DR, DR magic. I also carry an oil of bless weapon for dr evil, and align weapon later.
I would avoid applying real world logic to the games. This advice is coming for a scientist who plays with a lot of engineers and chemists. Three weapons is not actually crazy and for many positions two was standard. If you want to make it more realistic you can us a pole arm like a Lucerne hammer with a back up longsword, and a spiked gauntlet.
I try not to go too much on the real world... three weapons is okay for daggers up to longswords. It's carrying three halberds that seems a little much.
And my characters tend to pick up silver/cold iron quickly. It's enchanting them that I seem to balk at.
I have looked over a number of 4th level pregens provided by Paizo, and they mostly have a +1 weapon, a +1 armor/amulet/ring and a +1 cloak. I don't see +1 cold iron/silver/mithral/adamantine weapons anywhere. I didn't look at all of them, so I might have missed. (I did see a couple of mithral chain/breatsplates).
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I play a lot of rogue type characters who like to be prepared for anything. You should see the equipment list on my high level PFS rogue...he has a handy haversack stuffed with about 2 pages worth of assorted gear. He also wears 2 bandoleers, one is full of specialized daggers, the other full of alchemist fire, flasks of acid, holy water, etc.
People who play with that character are often amazed when we run up against something weird and I have the perfect item to deal with it :)
I generally buy a cold iron dagger and an alchemical silver light mace on all my starting characters. One big advantage of these is it covers all the basic DR types and almost any character can use them. My default for arrows are cold iron as well.
Some of my characters go for magical weapons early, others get an oil of magic weapon and try to hold out until they can afford adamantine. Eventually all my melee characters get some sort of Adamantine weapon. Either approach can be made to work.
I have no idea why you think pfs loot is restrictive. I don't think ihave a character below WBL.
This is good advice! Pack Slashing, Piercing, and Bludgeoning weapons. Pack Silver, Cold Iron, and Adamantine weapons. Always have the right tool for the job.
For the typical cold-iron sword guy, an adamantine morningstar backup, and a silver version of same, cover the bases.
(Morningstars don't get any respect at all in this game; IRL they were one of the most feared weapons on the battlefield. Your spiffy plate armor could deflect any sword attack, but a morningstar's chain would wrap around your defense and the ball's spikes get stuck in your armor, after which you were unhorsed, dragged, and/or tripped, or had a component of your armor torn off. They were utterly vicious. But it's probably not a good idea to tie the thing to your hand or use with locking gauntlets, as they had one notable weakness.)
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(Morningstars don't get any respect at all in this game; IRL they were one of the most feared weapons on the battlefield. Your spiffy plate armor could deflect any sword attack, but a morningstar's chain would wrap around your defense and the ball's spikes get stuck in your armor, after which you were unhorsed, dragged, and/or tripped, or had a component of your armor torn off. They were utterly vicious. But it's probably not a good idea to tie the thing to your hand or use with locking gauntlets, as they had one notable weakness.)
Technically you are referring to a flail. A flail is a spiked ball (or sometimes other shape) attached to a handle with a chain or length of rope.
A morning star is a spiked ball mounted directly to a handle, similar to a mace.
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Ascalaphus - do you seriously take in three different weapons? What about weight/encumberance? Lugging around three greatswords isn't really practical IRL, though I guess the game let's you do it. It's easier when you have 2000 for a Handy Haversack... but that's a +1 weapon or a +1 armor & shield.
My martial characters usually carry much more than three weapons yeah. I don't worry that much about realism - most of my characters have passed "raised eyebrows" and "hide the kids" in the eyes of NPCs already. Lugging around multiple polearms isn't out of the question.
I don't really worry about encumbrance because carrying capacity scales up quite fast when you're medium with a strength of 14 or higher (i.e. when you're a traditional strength-driven martial).
It's harder for spellcasting-focused characters of course, but with those I don't really try to be prepared for every type of DR because I'm not going to go into melee anyway. I just carry a cold iron dagger as a courtesy to set up flanks or help out a woefully underequipped colleague.
I don't really play dex to damage PCs, but they'd have a harder time with carrying capacity. That's one of the prices you pay...
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As a side note, the core book pregens are NOT a good example of how to build a character. They're often totally unprepared for monsters with any kind of special abilities at all. I've seen the barbarian be deeply frustrated every time she got grappled (can't use 2H weapons), and scared when she got swallowed whole (didn't have a dagger to cut her way out).
Every character must own a dagger.
By level 7 or so, more than half the monsters you run into have DR. Spending a few thousand GP to work around that is just being halfway competent as an adventurer.
Some people call it the "golf bag" effect, where an all-purpose monster hunter lugs around lots of specialized weapons. I like that. That's my kind of realism: people who prepare for all reasonable eventualities.
When playing a Fighter, I tend to acquire a lot of tools and weapons are very much tools of the trade of arms. I even have a silver dagger (not just plated) because the GM said there were no 'weres' in the game. So far none have shown, so I claim they're afraid. Turns out a lot of her nasty outsiders aren't happy with silver either. I carry a club of 'holy oak', hoping it will come in handy one day (Mistletoe turned out to have effects on outsiders, so...?). I also carry a few gallons of water for several reasons, but I've use it mostly to put out burning party members. I carry a padded greatcloak to protect my armor when fighting rust monsters, salt for slugs, etc.
Call me a Boy Scout, I try my best to be prepared. The character's background is that he's one of a retired adventurer's youngest kids and has little inheritance coming, but he listened to a lot of tales growing up.