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I’ve got a couple of Samsaran boons for PFS, and I’m trying to figure out what to make. I’ll probably eventually trade the second one, so I’d like to come up with something cool and fun for my one Samsaran character ever (in PFS, anyway). I’d also like to take advantage of Mystic Past Life.
Things I’m considering (but open to more):
I originally thought I’d make a Speaker for the Past Shaman as a kind of Timelord character (reincarnation standing in for regenerations). I could still see this being fun. I realized, though, that several races can already use their Shaman favored class bonus to pull spells off the Cleric list, and that made using the Samsaran feel less special.
Thassilonian Specialist (Sloth, most likely) - I have a boon to make one of these. I’m not sure how Mystic Past Life will interact with Thassilonian Specialist, though. Could I take a spell from am opposed school, for example to get mirror image? Or would I still not be able to actually prepare it? If I went this route, I’d take Acadamae Graduate and focus on summons.
Wizard (Teleportation school) - The alternative, also focusing on conjuring, but getting Shift. I’m not sure what Arcane spells would be worth grabbing. (Taking things lower level from Summoner is out).
Questioner Investigator - I’m about to retire my Investigator, and I really like the class. I know this Archetype has issues, but it’s an Arcane caster with the Bard spell list. That means there would be plenty of good options from the Wizard list to add. I could see this being kind of a Sherlock with magic. (EDIT: Or possibly Harry Dresden-esque).
Witch - someone locally is already using their boon for this, and I don’t want to step on their idea.
Mystic Theurge - See Witch. Don’t want to duplicate characters locally.
I’ve got two Maguses active, and I don’t really want to deal with an eidolon or a pet class where the pet outshines the character (Familiar is ok).
Any other ideas? Interesting Prestige class options?
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I'm sort of stuck on the same question. Some thoughts -
- Samsaran could be used to plug holes on a newer class with problematic gaps in its spell list, like Psychics not having much crowd control until level 4 spells.
- Druids and Clerics could get all sorts of off-theme stuff by shopping in the Shaman list. The Paladin list also has a few trinkets in it.
- Wizards can get pretty funky stuff out of the Witch list. Like healing.
- Inquisitors have a very narrow-focus spell list. A Samsaran inquisitor might become a brutal skill monkey with a much more versatile spell selection.
- A Reliquarian Occultist is a divine caster, so he could steal from the cleric, shaman, paladin, druid, inquisitor and ranger lists.
- A Halcyon Druid already uses a bonded item to spontaneously get stuff from the druid list, and learns some wizard spells. As a samsaran you can plunder even more spell lists. Prove wrong anyone saying druids aren't versatile enough to go full caster.
I have also found myself with two Samsaran boons. What has helped me plan their builds is picking a caster and style of play that I wanted, then finding a list of spells that made them better at it.
IMO (at least as far as PFS play*), the best bang for your buck is playing a class with 9 spell levels who takes spells from a class with 6 spell levels. You have access to some serious spell power this way. I'm not personally comfortable with the whole "early access" spells thing (nor do I believe it is worth the boon), but having spells that you aren't supposed to have access to, two levels before the class that gets them is pretty sweet!
For example, I have a wizard that is going to be 100% support. Stole spells from the bard list. He will have Good Hope at level 5, while real bards get it at level 7! There are even 9th level spells (which are 6th level on a different spell list) that you could steal and cast them at level 11! Theoretically, I could also take Heroism from the bard list (where it is a 2nd level spell) and then be able to cast it at 3rd level as a wizard, but they were going to get it anyways at 5th level. While that's cool, I don't think that is as special/worth the boon.
Just my 2cp, hope it helps!
Extra goodness for PFS, is that you will see all your Samsaran bonus spells in regular play. If you plan on playing your character through Seeker levels, it might change how you view other 9 spell level lists. IMO, spell levels 7-9 are silly powerful for any class and I don't really need new spells to keep up with the power curve or fill out a concept.
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Good thoughts so far. Thanks. I’ll have to look up a couple of the archetypes. I think I’m leaning toward the 9th level caster route, but something like Reliquarian is intriguing.
There are a couple of rules areas I’m not sure about. Mystic Past Life only mentions Arcane and Divine. Has it been clarified to work with Psychic classes somewhere?
Also, I think taking a spell that’s already on your class list from a different class list, but at a lower level, is a major grey area. So I don’t know how I’d feel about taking heroism, for example, as a 2nd level spell on a class that already gets it at 3rd. I think I’d rather avoid that to avoid running into table variation. But good hope is a nice one. There are some interesting Bard spells that Wizards don’t get.
I’ve actually not played a Wizard since 2nd edition, which is why I’m leaning toward that. I played a Witch through an AP, and currently have an active Arcanist, Cleric, and Oracle. My Sorcerer is well into Seeker levels. I’d think about a Psychic, except for the potential rules issue mentioned earlier. Plus I also have a Ratfolk boon I’m trying to figure out, and that may end up a Psychic. I don’t have a Druid, so I’ll take a look at the Halcyon Archetype. Are there any interesting archetypes in Ultimate Wilderness?
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IMO (at least as far as PFS play*), the best bang for your buck is playing a class with 9 spell levels who takes spells from a class with 6 spell levels. You have access to some serious spell power this way. I'm not personally comfortable with the whole "early access" spells thing (nor do I believe it is worth the boon), but having spells that you aren't supposed to have access to, two levels before the class that gets them is pretty sweet!** spoiler omitted **
Damn, now I need to pop some bubbles... Unfortunately, PFS has a rule concerning Mystic Past Life. It is in the Additional Resources under the Advanced Race Guide, Samsaran section:
Samsaran: all alternate racial traits, favored class options, racial archetypes, racial equipment, feats, magic items, and spells are legal for play. Any spell selected with the mystic past life alternate racial trait must follow the same guideline used for determining the spell level for a scroll found on page 25 of the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Guide.
Bolding mine. This means that no matter which spell-list you choose, and no matter how early they get the spell, you always need to check if the Wizard/Cleric/Druid/Psychic also gets that spell eventually. In case they do, you need to use the spell level of that class (so if you take the Hunter list for Life Bubble, it will be cast as a level 4 spell, as the Druid gets it as a level 4 spell). So, no early access allowed in PFS (although Good Hope is only on the Bard/Skald list, and therefore stays a level 3 spell).
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I've been playing a Samsaran in PFS for a few years now (GenCon GM boon) and I did use Mystic Past Life. However my advice is actually not to stress about the spells before you build the character. Decide what your character's background and focus is and the list of spells that make sense will dramatically narrow.
ACG came out at the same time I got that boon. The Sacred Huntmaster archetype finally gave me the chance to build the Inquisitor of Irori I'd been trying to make work for months. His white tiger animal companion (closest thing to a pavbagha that is PFS legal) is what drives him to go out of the monastery and bring Irori's teachings to the world at large.
Once I had that concept the spells to take were blindingly obvious - things that had to do with animals (carry companion, speak with animals, magic fang, etc.).
To answer some of your specific questions:
Thassilonian Specialist (Sloth, most likely) - I have a boon to make one of these. I’m not sure how Mystic Past Life will interact with Thassilonian Specialist, though. Could I take a spell from am opposed school, for example to get mirror image? Or would I still not be able to actually prepare it?
MPL just adds it to your class spell list. (Which it already was on.) The spell is still from an opposition school, so you still can't prepare it.
Wizard (Teleportation school) - The alternative, also focusing on conjuring, but getting Shift. I’m not sure what Arcane spells would be worth grabbing.
There are a few teleportation spells that are on the bard list but not the wizard list (jester's jaunt comes to mind). And there are some pretty nice bard-only spells like good hope. Go bard.
There are even 9th level spells (which are 6th level on a different spell list) that you could steal and cast them at level 11!
Does not work in PFS.
Any spell selected with the mystic past life alternate racial trait must follow the same guideline used for determining the spell level for a scroll found on page 25 of the Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Guide.
That means you have to use the level of the spell on the wizard, cleric, druid, or psychic list if it is on that list.
Mystic Past Life only mentions Arcane and Divine. Has it been clarified to work with Psychic classes somewhere?
It has not been officially clarified but Psychic casting did not exist when MPL was released. It would take a really over-literal GM to deny this.
I’d think about a Psychic, except for the potential rules issue mentioned earlier.
Also, take a look at the psychic classes' spell lists and see if there are any spells you would want that aren't also on the Psychic's spell list. (I did this exercise and didn't find any.)
Woo! You didn't pop my bubble, I avoided spells like that due to the ambiguity (Which Ferious Thrune has outlined as well). I apologize if that wasn't clear in my initial post. Glad PFS has an official clarification for that.
EDIT: Actually, there is some minor popping. I was not as thorough with my second samsaran. Heroism from an inquisitor will still be a 3rd level spell. Not a significant hit to the build, but worth noting here for others to be aware of.
EDIT EDIT: Haha reading this all in pieces. I hadn't planned on using a 9th level spell in a 6th level slot, but thank you to Belafon for pointing out this doesn't work for PFS!
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As for advice, I also have given it some thought (as I too have a Samsaran Boon for PFS). The Additional Resources rule threw a wrench in some early access plans, so I'll leave those out.
- I thought up an Living Grimoire Inquisitor with the Knowledge Domain, but I was always extremely bothered by the fact that this book centered archetype did not have Page-Bound Epiphany. A very weak and bad reason to go Samsaran, for sure, but if you want to keep/add to a flavor of an archetype, the Samsaran can provide it.
- The Occultist has a strange list, but it is filled with enough different kind of spells that the other Psychic casters might want to take some of those for themselves. Especially Evocation spells are common on the Occultist List, and the Psychic might want some of those (if you want more area-blast power).
- Support Druids might want to shop among the Cleric spells for other party buffs, while they also can shop for Fluffy.
- Although I do not know the Magus list that well, I do know that they want Touch-spells. Something the Witch and Wizard lists have loads of: Touch of Fatigue, Inflict X Wounds, Stricken Heart, Touch of Idiocy, Touch of Slime, etc, etc. Hell you could even pick up Spite from the Witch list, and punish everyone who lives after your onslaught and dares to strike back.
Woo! You didn't pop my bubble, I avoided spells like that due to the ambiguity (Which Ferious Thrune has outlined as well). I apologize if that wasn't clear in my initial post. Glad PFS has an official clarification for that.
Thank God. I always hate it when I know an obscure rule that destroys creative builds, so I'm glad it didn't influence you.
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Mr. Bonkers - Thanks for finding the Mystic Past Life restriction. I figured that was the case, but missed the actual text.
Belaphon - Thassilonian Specialist doesn’t actually remove the spells in the opposition schools from your class list. You can’t use wands or scrolls of those spells. But yeah, it probably means even if you got them added somehow, you couldn’t use them.
But yeah, the advice about figuring out the character before picking the spells is good. That’s more or less what I’m trying to do here. I’m not looking for a specific list of spells, necessarily. Just trying to figure out what kinds of builds will be able to make good use of access to other lists. Like your Inquisitor with an animal companion that wouldn’t normally have the support spells for animals.
I’d been thinking about making a Goliath Druid at some point. I just don’t know if I want to use this boon for a melee character. But combining Druid buffs with the Inquisitor list, for example, might be interesting. Adding the litanies, maybe. And of course divine favor/power.
What I like about going Questioner is that between the Bard and Wizard lists, I could make a support Investigator, instead of focusing on Melee, who could also blast when needed. I did natural attacking on my current Investigator, and I think I want to avoid going with a rapier build on my next. If only Questioner would combine with Empiricist, I think I might do that. Without needing to focus on Melee, though, I think I could get away without Empiricist, since I can put more points in the mental stats instead of trying to have everything INT based.
I wish they’d issue a clarification on Psychic spells and Mystic Past Life. If seen it discussed as not working already. Since I play a fair bit online, I’m not willing to trust going that route with a boon character. Otherwise Psychic Detective might be an option.
Ferious Thrune, I think a melee Samsaran would be a very fun character to play. Not the most powerful (at least as far as stats, that -2 con is painful), but certainly a good one. Druid and Inquisitor buffs have tons of stackable features.
I agree that a clarification for Psychic spells would be nice. I can't imagine why they would prohibit it, but the table variation would be very frustrating.
The Questioner sounds fun to play, very unique!
Let the edit spamming continue! Mr. Bonkers, all my spells adhere to the clarification :) I've finally arrived at my computer to confirm.
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Thune not Thrune :) I made my first PFS character with very little knowledge of Golarion, and ended up making him a little too closely to the Cheliax house.
I’ll think about going melee. I’ve just got a lot of Melee characters at the moment.
Thanks again everyone. Any other thoughts would be appreciated.
I think that a Samsaran Bard might be cool, combined with Ultimate Wilderness' Filidh archetype. It changes his spellcasting to divine, which opens up some cool things. Not sure what exactly you'd want to steal, as the Bard list is already pretty sweet, but still. Pretty much at-will Divination at level 6 is sweet, and Speak with Plants/Animals is situational, but also pretty fun, IMHO. The only downside is you lose Inspire Courage, pretty much the main reason you want to be a Bard, but there's probably some cool things you can do with that.
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Hmm... glancing over what a Questioner build would look like, I think it's getting too convoluted. I'd want to pick up a couple of ray spells to take advantage of studied combat, but then I'd need essentially 4 feats dedicated to it to be any good with them. Weapon Focus (Ray), Ranged Study, Point-Blank Shot, and Precise Shot. Which wouldn't fully come online until 7th, and would leave my just 2 feats to play with in regular PFS tiers. That's half my Mystic Past Life spells, plus 2/3s of my feats, which is too much of a commitment for a secondary tactic.
Going to look at Teleportation Wizard or Halcyon Druid.
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I think that a Samsaran Bard might be cool, combined with Ultimate Wilderness' Filidh archetype. It changes his spellcasting to divine, which opens up some cool things. Not sure what exactly you'd want to steal, as the Bard list is already pretty sweet, but still. Pretty much at-will Divination at level 6 is sweet, and Speak with Plants/Animals is situational, but also pretty fun, IMHO. The only downside is you lose Inspire Courage, pretty much the main reason you want to be a Bard, but there's probably some cool things you can do with that.
Does the archetype make the Bard a WIS caster? Samsarans get bonuses to INT and WIS, not CHA, and the number of spells they get with Mystic Past Life is based off their initial casting stat, so that's why I was avoiding CHA based casting classes.
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Ok, here's what a Teleportation wizard might look like. Just the basics.
1) Acadamae Graduate, B) Spell Focus (Conjuration)
3) Augment Summoning
5) Superior Summons, B) Balanced Summoning
7) Dimensional Agility
9) Toughness
10) B) Steward of the Great Beyond
11) Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Mystic Past Life:
1st) Invigorate
2nd) Gallant Inspiration*
3rd) Jester's Jaunt
3rd) Good Hope*
5th) Bard's Escape
*I'm not sure what my opposition schools will be. Likely Necromancy and either Divination or Enchantment, which would rule out one of these spells. I would probably lean towards Enchantment as an opposed school, which would mean good hope is out.
Is Balanced Summoning worth it? Would Superior Summons work with it? If so, how (since it would throw things out of balance)? Could I summon two celestial wolverines and a fiendish crocodile? Or am I better off just rolling randomly for 1d3 of a single type of creature?
Having Invigorate on my list would let me use a wand. With a 10 minute duration, I could use it in combat if I get fatigued from Acadamae Graduate, and it'll last plenty long enough to not worry about the nonlethal damage.
Are there summoning related feats I'm missing? I figured I don't need Sacred Summons if I've got Acadamae Graduate.
I think that a Samsaran Bard might be cool, combined with Ultimate Wilderness' Filidh archetype. It changes his spellcasting to divine, which opens up some cool things. Not sure what exactly you'd want to steal, as the Bard list is already pretty sweet, but still. Pretty much at-will Divination at level 6 is sweet, and Speak with Plants/Animals is situational, but also pretty fun, IMHO. The only downside is you lose Inspire Courage, pretty much the main reason you want to be a Bard, but there's probably some cool things you can do with that.Does the archetype make the Bard a WIS caster? Samsarans get bonuses to INT and WIS, not CHA, and the number of spells they get with Mystic Past Life is based off their initial casting stat, so that's why I was avoiding CHA based casting classes.
Sadly, no. But I've played Bards before that started with 14 Charisma, that works fine. Yeah, don't rely on save or suck spells, but it's doable otherwise. But yeah, fair enough, not going all in on your main stat isn't appealing.
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I mean, I've done things like that before, too. It's more that with two bonus mental stats, it seems like I could find a class that uses one of them. And, having a 14 or 16 CHA would mean I'd only get to use 3 spells with Mystic Past Life ever, since they have to be chosen at 1st level and boosting it later doesn't add new one. And getting to a 16 CHA would cost half my point buy to get to use 3 spells.
Empyreal or Sage Sorcerer isn't out of the question. I just don't know any Bard archetypes that swap out the casting stat.
Otherwise, yeah. I think my Bard started with a 16. My Sorcerer started with a 16 CHA as well, though that was my first character and I'm not sure I'd do that again.
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The Filidh Bard archetype from Ultimate Wilderness says:
Natural Magic: A filidh casts spells as a bard, but the spells are divine, not arcane, and therefore not subject to arcane spell failure. A filidh must use a holy symbol or a musical instrument as a divine focus when a spell includes such a component. He still uses the bard spell list. This alters the bard’s spellcasting.
So it would still use Cha to cast.
I posted a request for clarification on Mystic Part Life in the Campaign Clarification thread when the Samsaran boons came out this year at the very beginning of September. They have released an updated Clarifications document since then, but did not address that issue. Maybe next time....? In the meantime, I'm just going to hold onto my Samsaran boon until they do.
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I think in terms of sheer potency the top options are probably witch and halcyon druid. Witches have strong class features but a slightly less diverse spell list than wizards - MPL would circumvent that. Halcyon Druid has a mask that functions as a bonded item, and as a druid he knows all the spells on his list so that's very impressive flexibility. Especially when you get to add wizard spells AND MPL spells.
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Would you choose Cleric for MPL on a Halcyon Druid? That Archetype gives up a lot between nature’s bond and wild shape, but getting so many Wizard spells is nice. And getting to cast them at their original level helps, too (compared to Ancient Lorekeeper, for example). It’ll probably take me a bit to wrap my head around what the focus of such a character would be, to dictate spell choices, but I can see a 9 level caster pulling from 3 different lists being powerful.
EDIT: Do you have any sense of how the bonded mask works for PFS? Would I be able to upgrade it into any head slot item, or only a “mask?” Also I don’t own Adventurer’s Guide yet. I could move it up the purchase list, though.
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Would you choose Cleric for MPL on a Halcyon Druid?
Cleric is the obvious choice for versatility, but since it's only 4-5 spells, Shaman is also an option.
That Archetype gives up a lot between nature’s bond and wild shape, but getting so many Wizard spells is nice. And getting to cast them at their original level helps, too (compared to Ancient Lorekeeper, for example). It’ll probably take me a bit to wrap my head around what the focus of such a character would be, to dictate spell choices, but I can see a 9 level caster pulling from 3 different lists being powerful.
What with taking so many wizardish spells and having a Con penalty, it's almost like you're a wizard with a lot of druid spells.
You'll also have a decent Intelligence and the druid class starts with 4+Int skill points, so you've also got the setup to be a respectable scholar.
I'm starting to think about making one of these myself, and maybe going for some of the mask-related feats; hiding my blue samsaran skin entirely.
EDIT: Do you have any sense of how the bonded mask works for PFS? Would I be able to upgrade it into any head slot item, or only a “mask?” Also I don’t own Adventurer’s Guide yet. I could move it up the purchase list, though.
I'm not sure, I'd feel more comfortable going with strictly a mask. But then I would just beeline for the Goz Mask and play around with cloud spells.
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Yeah, it seems like a powerful option. I’ve been comparing it to Magaambyan Initiate/Arcanist, and going Druid with some wizard spells feels better than Arcanist with some Druid spells. The main advantage I can see from going Arcanist is that you can take Quick Study and be able to swap spells on the fly. But you give up so many exploits, it really limits the build.
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My samsaran added lesser planar ally to my druid list and took domains instead of an animal companion to make use of the imp companion. This character makes for a very interesting LN druid. I might even embrace it further by going hellknight signifier and wear dragon-fullplate (the wild enchantment change makes me unsure). This character gets a lot of odd looks when you mention being a druid with an imp.
Even with the clarification there are still spells such as Holy Sword (Paladin 4) which don't appear on Wiz/Cleric/Druid. It is possible to use these.
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Azothath - Thanks for the suggestions and pointing out those rules. That is how I was assuming everything worked, so that's good.
I've got two Samsaran boons at the moment, but I'll likely only make one of them into something. I'll keep the other around to trade if I miss a GM boon somewhere.
So far I'm liking the Halcyon Druid suggestion the most. Between the access to Wizard spells the archetype grants and access to another divine list (likely Cleric to fill in buffing/healing gaps), it gives access to a wide range of spells. That combined with the Arcane Bond-like mask means spontaneous access to a whole lot of different spells, if only 1/day.
What I'd like to figure out for the build is a way to expand that spontaneous access. Is there a feat similar to the Wizard Fast Learner Discovery or the Arcanist Quick Study Exploit for a Druid? Something that would let me prep an open spell slot faster than 15 minutes?
Or better yet, is there a prepared caster version of a feat like Versatile Spontaneity? I guess that's Planned Spontaneity, but that isn't available until 9th level, which is a bit late in the PFS game. Anything that's a lesser version of that, but available sooner?
Ragoz - Sounds like a fun character.
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My samsaran added lesser planar ally to my druid list and took domains instead of an animal companion to make use of the imp companion. This character makes for a very interesting LN druid. I might even embrace it further by going hellknight signifier and wear dragon-fullplate (the wild enchantment change makes me unsure). This character gets a lot of odd looks when you mention being a druid with an imp.
Even with the clarification there are still spells such as Holy Sword (Paladin 4) which don't appear on Wiz/Cleric/Druid. It is possible to use these.
Forgot to mention it was for diabolist if people didn't get that from the imp and the spell requirement.
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Mythic Past Life is limited to adding spells of the same type (divine for the Druid), so that’s what I meant by access to another divine list. It’s limited access, but it’s access. So it would be a character with the full Druid list, some Wizard spells, some Cleric spells from the Good domain, and likely more Cleric spells from Mystic Past Life. That’s a broad range of potential options.
Planned Spontaneity requires 9 ranks in Know: Arcana, so it’s not available until 9th level. But yeah, that’s the type of thing I’m looking for. Brilliant Spell Preparation and Magical Epiphany are both perfect, too. Thanks!
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Inquisitor list might work as well. It would give access to a lot of good buff spells that aren't on Druid. Divine Favor, See Invisibility, Heroism, Prayer,Divine Power, Magic Vestment, Greater Magic Weapon. Basically Heroism is the advantage over the Cleric list. No Breath of Life, unfortunately.
EDIT: Other useful options... Dimensional Anchor, Dismissal, Break Enchantment, Remove Paralysis, Shield Other.
It looks like there would be plenty to choose from.
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It feels to me like prepared casters might benefit a little more than spontaneous. At 4-5 spells, the Mystic Past Life spells are going to make up a significant portion of your known spells on something like an Oracle or Sorcerer. And you still have to actually select them. MPL just adds them to your list. Bard I could see benefitting, because they can choose the Wizard list and have a lot to choose from. Especially if they want some blasting spells. But does a Sorcerer really want 5 of their known spells to be Bard spells? I guess it depends on the build.
A prepared caster, on the other hand, can just add them to their list and prepare as needed. That's part of what I like about the Halcyon Druid idea. I can get access to some situational spells that Druid lacks, but I'm not locked into taking them each day. And being able to grab things like See Invisibility off a divine list means I can dedicate the Wizard spells from the archetype to more blasty or control type spells.
For more martial casters, it's great to find ways to add personal buffs off list. I did that on an Ancient Lorekeeper Oracle to pick up shield and mirror image. But that also crossed over to an arcane class list. Warpriest could benefit from the Ranger list, adding lead blades, or the Inquisitor or Paladin lists adding litanies.
I used one to make a controller oracle, eu g able to grab things like Entangle, Aquatic Sphere, Thorny Entaglement and Tar pool really helps made a divine controller class.
I was going to mention evangelist and oracle.
Arcanist gets an honorable mention.
Evangelist, because you can add spells to your spell list
There is also the pfs guild that lets you dual class (not theurge stepping)...
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The reason I asked about Alchemist extracts is because I was thinking about using some of their transmutation ones with a Brown Fur Transmuter Arcanist. It seems it might be a fun build to take the BFT Arcanist's ability to cast personal transmutation spells on others and combine it with Mystic Past Life for some access to non Wizard transmutation spells.
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Alchemist needs clarification, so I'm not sure the correct answer. My personal opinion is that they've stated Alchemists are not spellcasters, so with nothing else to go on, they don't qualify as a class to use for MPL.
My guess is if they did, they'd only be able to pick up extracts from another alchemical list, which means Investigator. And arcane classes wouldn't be able to take spells from the Alchemist list. But this part is just speculation.
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I was going to mention evangelist and oracle.
Arcanist gets an honorable mention.Evangelist, because you can add spells to your spell list
There is also the pfs guild that lets you dual class (not theurge stepping)...
Arcanist is pretty flexible on its own, but yeah, Quick Study would help a lot with versatility combined with MPL.. I'd look at a Magaambyan Initiate/Arcanist if their access to Druid spells wasn't so costly. The Halcyon Druid just flat out adds Wizard spells to its list. The Magaambyan Initiate needs to spend Arcane Reservoir points every time it casts one of the Druid spells it knows. And a LOT of points. half the spell level.
But avoiding that archetype, an Arcanist with 4 or 5 Bard spells or some things off the Magus list, could add a lot of versatility.
EDIT: What's the PFS option you're referencing? I'm not sure I know what it is.
I agree with everything you say, but I think you consider what chromantic said.
One of the biggest limitations of oracles is spells known. So adding spells via samsaran is huge. Plus the number of spells is tied to a stat that can double for spell casting.
Regarding PFS.
There is a prestige award, available in two steps, I think its Inner Sea Guide, but... it essentially lets you take a 2nd casting class while avoiding the CL loss to your first class.
its like 15 prestige and 35. A quick look didn't find it, but it is still legal for pfs.
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I agree with everything you say, but I think you consider what chromantic said.
One of the biggest limitations of oracles is spells known. So adding spells via samsaran is huge. Plus the number of spells is tied to a stat that can double for spell casting.
As far as I can see, Samsaran only adds the spells to your class list, not to your list of spells known - so it doesn't help that much for oracle.
Regarding PFS.
There is a prestige award, available in two steps, I think its Inner Sea Guide, but... it essentially lets you take a 2nd casting class while avoiding the CL loss to your first class.
its like 15 prestige and 35. A quick look didn't find it, but it is still legal for pfs.
I'm not sure this really exists. You may be thinking of one of the "school membership" benefits from Inner Sea Magic, but that system isn't allowed in PFS.
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My reading of MPL is the same as Azothath and Ascalaphus. It adds the spells to your class list. It does not automatically give them to you as Spells Known. You still have to select them with one of your regular Oracle (or Sorcerer) slots.
And yes, it looks like Perfect Tommy is confusing the non-PFS faction/prestige system with the PFS prestige vanities.
Azothath - Thanks for the link to that thread. I'd forgotten Unchained Summoner got so many spells that aren't normal arcane.
Eclectic Training. 5 Fame
Esoteric Training. 35 Fame
Took me awhile to find. Sadly not legal. Neither is Magical Knack.
As for MPL, the faq was pretty clear you can't use MPL to change spell level if its already on your list.
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Magical Knack is PFS legal. It wasn't at one point, but a convincing argument was made and it was legalized several years ago.
The fame system used for Eclectic Training and Esoteric Training is different than the fame system that PFS uses. None of the options under that system are legal, as far as I know.