One of the ideas I had saw floating around the net is the use of wagons and turning them into mobile buildings and such. This seems to be a worthwhile idea, especially as RL shows that it can be done for a time.
Has anyone done this before? What rules are followed for it? If this was used in a campaign, how did it get implemented?
Definitely an interesting idea, and I do like mobile bases ever since I discovered the Stronghold Builder's Guide and the ability to proximate a Borg Cube in the heyday of my play of D&D 3.X.
I think you'd need some very big wagons for some of the Rooms from the Rooms and Teams section of the Downtime subsystem. Other small ones, like Lavatories and Shacks would fit into the space just fine.
Start of the campaign/level 1: buy a wagon, making sure PCs have skills like Craft: Carpentry, Knowledge: Engineering or Profession: Woodcutter. Have PCs begin spending downtime between adventures adding sides and roofing - turn wagon into a caravan
Level 3 - Level 5: begin experimenting with Craft Wondrous Item and Create Pit or other "extra-dimensional space" spells to craft bags of holding and such. Store large amounts of gear in small spaces, freeing up interior space in the caravan wagon. Use interior space to luxuriate; lay out carpeting, craft furniture and such. Also use Engineering to add some kind of mechanized defenses like crossbows mounted to the exterior
Level 6 - 9: use these levels to begin turning the caravan itself into a magic item. Layer on enchantments like Alarm; spells that create/store/protect duplicate spellbooks and install whole chests of extra-dimensional storage. When Permanency comes online add a small army of unseen servants, reloading hands and such to automate minor functions. Finally, begin experimenting with exterior additions such as battle platforms, armor or wall extensions (kind of like an RV)
Level 10 on: at this point you should have a fairly comfortably mobile base with enough interior storage for each PC's trove. These higher levels add creature comforts like permanent alcohol dispensers, access to permanent demi-planes or food growth/replication/preservation devices. You also need to consider high-level protections versus scrying, all forms of energy attack, and manipulation of the caravan by Force effects
Definitely an interesting idea, and I do like mobile bases ever since I discovered the Stronghold Builder's Guide and the ability to proximate a Borg Cube in the heyday of my play of D&D 3.X.
I think you'd need some very big wagons for some of the Rooms from the Rooms and Teams section of the Downtime subsystem. Other small ones, like Lavatories and Shacks would fit into the space just fine.
I figure a the wagon size would be the limiting factor. Right off the bat, a light Wagon would be one small room, a medium wagon would have two small rooms, and a heavy wagon would have either three or four small rooms.
Or, to use the squares, a light wagon has four squares, a medium wagon has six squares, and a large wagon has eight.
@Saronian: I think using squares is the easiest approximation.
Seriously though - don't underestimate the power of skills. Level 1 and access to wilderness forest, using skills like Craft or Profession, and adding in Valet familiars, Aid Another, Masterwork tools and a couple spells its reasonable to get to crafting approximately 560 SP or 56 GP worth of gear in a week, just at level 1.
You have to think outside the box though. 56 GP/week = 1 Light Wagon/week (a Light Wagon costs 50 GP). This means 4 squares worth of transport. But what if you have a Light Wagon already? Another week's work converts this to a Heavy Wagon; the next week's work adds sturdy walls, curved roof beams, shingling and a door to turn that heavy wagon into a proper caravan.
But why stop there? What if each PC had their own vehicle? Consider the impact of crafting folding wall extensions off the exterior for a quick outdoor stage or tent awning.
All of that is possible from level 1 with skills, time and resources. Finally... raid dungeons.
You wander into some old ruin but sentient monsters are living there? Take more than their GP. Swipe ancient tapestries or furniture for restoration via Make Whole or Mending. If the monsters aren't TOO gross consider taking furs, clothing, bedding or other furnishings to outfit each caravan with.
@Mark: If they are sentient, it gives more reason to use non-lethal damage as well as diplomacy. In an age of everyone digging for gold, sell shovels.
The idea is actually an old one that I was thinking about three years back in a Carrion Crown campaign. In that situation, being mobile was a side effect of the campaign going all over the place.
1. Howdahs: aren't these mobile battle platforms mounted on elephants? In a medieval fantasy game could you luxuriate such a shack and then mount them on any Large - Gargantuan sized monster you control?
2. Flying Carpet + x: can you bind a tent properly over a flying carpet? Instant flying home...
3. Ships: I don't know Carrion Crown but if any part of it is on a large enough body of water why not just build a sailing vessel?
4. Siege towers: the idea here was you transport pieces of a tower, got it close to the enemy's stronghold, and then assembled it on a wheeled base so you could roll your stacked battle platform up to the wall. Same question as with the Howdah; couldn't you just luxuriate such a construct and pull it with monsters?
And finally, speaking of better living through spells, at high level you get... Animate Objects. By the time you get this your cleric is Level 11 which means they can animate 1 Huge object - say a 2-room cottage? It's a bit on the quaint side for a level 11 Cleric, but fill it with extra-dimensional storage, permanent creature comfort spells and other amenities and suddenly you're riding in style!
However, I'm asking if anyone has done such a thing in a campaign. Theorycrafting is nice and all, but practical experimentation is the test of it.
I think the problem is that unless the campaign is centered around it, by the time the group has the money/levels to make it effective there are better options.
I had a character that built an animated, invisible, flying, carriage. Which the party used for like 3 levels. Afterward the only use it got was to transport my golem to our destination since we couldn't just teleport him there along with the rest of the group. Once you can create a demi-plane and make it your base, you have access to it 24/7 and so there's no need to have something so vulnerable with the group.
one of the adventure paths I ran had a mobile base that the party would adventure from/in but it was more of a plot device then something the party could "make their own".
However, I'm asking if anyone has done such a thing in a campaign. Theorycrafting is nice and all, but practical experimentation is the test of it.
I think the problem is that unless the campaign is centered around it, by the time the group has the money/levels to make it effective there are better options.
I had a character that built an animated, invisible, flying, carriage. Which the party used for like 3 levels. Afterward the only use it got was to transport my golem to our destination since we couldn't just teleport him there along with the rest of the group. Once you can create a demi-plane and make it your base, you have access to it 24/7 and so there's no need to have something so vulnerable with the group.
one of the adventure paths I ran had a mobile base that the party would adventure from/in but it was more of a plot device then something the party could "make their own".
That might be for three levels, but how long did the group actually use it for?
The carriage is nice, but I'm thinking more along the lines of a mini RV(s) for the party. I figure one such vehicle for two people, with hirelings be added as we go on.
Well, one thing I realized is that you can make a Food Truck in PF using Rooms and Teams in combination with a Heavy Wagon if you're able to treat it as 8 squares.
The minimum size for a Kitchen and a Storefront is 2 squares for each of them and the minimum size for Storage is 4 squares, so that's 8 squares altogether.
So that's neat.
Wagon-Compatible(?) Rooms 48 rooms total, a number which surprised me. That's about 62% of Rooms, at least in the PRD. I believe most of the Heroes of the Wild rooms, like Rangelands and Grottos wouldn't work. Although if you could justify carting around huge trees, you could use the Arboreal room augmentation to have a bunch of wagons as foundations with each one having a support pillar tree that lets you have your mobile crawling city idea.
Spoiler:
Alchemy lab: 8 square minimum size.
Altar: 2 square minimum, 8 max.
Animal Pen: 4 square min.
Armory: 5 square min.
Artisan's Workshop: 8 square min.
Bath: 3 square min, 6 max.
Bedroom: 4 square min, 8 max.
Book Repository: 4 square min.
Cell: 1 square min.
Classroom: 5 square min.
Clockwork Shop: 8 square min.
Confessional: 2 square min, 4 max.
Crypt: 8 square min, can be above ground.
Drawbridge: 4 square min, 8 max. No real purpose(?)
Escape Route: 6 square min. Kinda pointless(?)
Forge: 8 square min. May require finagling or at least the Fortification room augmentation in order to fire-proof it.
Gatehouse: 8 square min. Surprising that it's an option. Can be two-story.
Gauntlet: 4 min, 8 max. Not much purpose in context without magicking or high teching up a sand crawler or crawling city.
Guard Post: 6 min. Can be two-story. See Gatehouse and Gauntlet.
Hatchery: 2 min, 6 max.
Infirmary: 4 min.
Kitchen: 2 min, 6 max. May need the Fortification augmentation for fire-proofing.
Laundry: 2 min, 6 max.
Lavatory: 1 min, 6 max.
Leather Workshop: 4 min. Cheaper than the more general artian's shop.
Magical Repository: 4 min.
Nursery: 8 min.
Office: 2 min, 5 max.
Printer: 5 min.
Reliquary: 1 min, 4 max.
Sanctum: 1 min, 4 max.
Sauna: 2 min, 5 max.
Scriptorium: 5 min.
Scrying Room: 4 min.
Secret Room: 6 min. So hard to hide given there'd only be 2 squares left in the largest 8-square wagon.
Sewing Room: 6 min. Cheapest workshop style room, IIRC, so best bang for buck on that front.
Shack: 2 min, 4 max. Most basic bedroom/quarters available.
Sitting Room: 6 min. Kind of amusing in the context of a caravan of wagons.
Stall: 6 min. What purpose you would put it to, I cannot say offhand, barring the whole Sandcrawler/Crawling City idea.
Statue: 1 min. Opens up some potential options for Guardian Monument, I suppose.
Storage: 4 min, 8 max.
Storefront: 2 min, 4 max. Combine Storage, Kitchen, and Storefront together to get Food Truck.
Summoning Chamber: 6 min.
Torture Chamber: 6 min.
Trophy Room: 4 min.
Vault: 4 min, 8 max. Probably wants the Fortification augmentation.
War Room: 4 min.
Workstation: 8 min. Redundant with Artisan's Workshop but cheaper and with less ROI.
Outright Unsuitable(?) Surprisingly only 3 of the ones that weren't outright too big.
Spoiler:
Pit: 1 min, 5 max. Literally a hole in the ground, though. I suppose could be replicated via magic for some reason.
Sewer Access: 4 min, 6 max. Literally a connection to a stationary sewer system.
Tollbooth: 1 min, 5 max.
Too big(?) Or at least too big for one wagon. Fewer than I thought, only 25 of them, though some might be better categorized as outright unsuitable. A few, such as the Garden and Greenhouse, I could see being distributed between a couple of dedicated wagons.
Spoiler:
Auditorium: 40 square min.
Ballroom: 40 square min.
Bar: 10 square min.
Battle Ring: 40 square min.
Bell Tower: 9 square min, two-story.
Brewery: 12 square min.
Bunks: 15 square min.
Burial Ground: 20 square min, requires burying people in the ground.
Ceremonial Room: 40 square min.
Common Room: 10 square min, redundant with decent weather.
Courtyard: 20 square min, redundant with decent weather.
Defensive Wall: 20 square min, could be replicated with a string made up of multiple of any kind of armored wagon anyway.
Dock: 10 square min, requires a body of water.
Dojo: 15 square min.
False Front: 10 min. Also, a secret organization would be distributed throughout a caravan anyway.
Farmland: 60 min. Also, literally land.
Game Room: 10 min.
Garden: 10 min. Technically just an area of carefully tended soil, so could be distributed across multiple instead of concentrated on one(?)
Greenhouse: 10 min. See Garden.
Habitat: 40 min.
Labyrinth: 40 min. Also either a literal or visual maze.
Lodging: 20 min.
Mill Room: 20 min.
Observation Dome: 10 min.
Sports Field: 40 min.
Throne Room: 40 min.
Then I just didn't include Traps in any of these lists at all, since I wasn't sure where to put them.
I was in a homebrew campaign where we got our hands on an airship, it made a pretty decent mobile base after we added a crapload of copper plating to the underside.
That might be for three levels, but how long did the group actually use it for?
well, we didn't have it prior to me creating it and once we could reliably teleport the group didn't see a need for it. Even I stopped using it once my golem was killed. I guess I'm not sure how to answer your question otherwise.
Saronian wrote:
The carriage is nice, but I'm thinking more along the lines of a mini RV(s) for the party. I figure one such vehicle for two people, with hirelings be added as we go on.
yeah, I think it was fairly large as far as these things go. I think it fit 6 on the inside, 2 could ride on top in the "driver" and "shotgun" seats and then I had a giant coffin (could fit 1 large size creature) on top of it behind the seats where my golem would ride.
I figure you're talking more of a structure like the one in the anime "Howl's Moving Castle". Which seems amazing, But aside from my little carriage I haven't really experienced it in a game as a player.
I just used Mordenkainan's magnificent mansion as a base. Admittedly, you couldn't leave anything in it, but creating it any time you needed it was very handy.
The drawbridge can be modeled after the pontoon/mobile bridges used by the various military and rescue organizations. Have it come with a couple of empty barrels/airbladders for buoyancy as well as chains, stakes, and ropes to secure the bridge to the shore(s) and any additional sections.
As for the gatehouse/guard post, a wagon can easily accommodate a one story version, while a "second story" could be set up on top with four beams and either a canvas roof or one made out of panels.
Go figure, being a veteran in the modern military can be applicable to a fantasy campaign.
I have had several characters with wagons for sleeping areas, mobile workshops and the like. I wouldn't classify them a 'bases' though.
While a few have had some moderate amounts of extra defense added, for the most part parties I have been in believe the best defense is a good offense, and don't worry too much about that sort of thing.
My wizard with the Craft Construct feat once convinced the party to pool their gold to buy a merchant ship, and then animated it as a Colossal Animated Object with the Fly special ability (purchased with CP). Did the same thing with a carriage and treated it like a drop ship.
Worked pretty well, but again, once we got teleportation it became a little redundant. Managed to teleport the whole ship once or twice using Magic Jar shenanigans, but it didn't provide us with much benefit.
Creative application of floating disk(s) could lift and move all kinds of stuff. More so if you’ve got the mythic version. In that case you can even teleport your structures.
Jade reagent has a set of rules for a merchant caravan types of wagons, roles for a party, caravan combat rules. Not sure how well they work in practice and there's probably another book that duplicates those rules but take a look in the jade reagent part of the forums there may be something there.
Jade reagent has a set of rules for a merchant caravan types of wagons, roles for a party, caravan combat rules. Not sure how well they work in practice and there's probably another book that duplicates those rules but take a look in the jade reagent part of the forums there may be something there.
Just remember that the subsystem as a whole is a bit rubbish, especially the combat, and can require anything from minor tweaking to completely throwing things out and rewriting them or using what someone else wrote when they did that.
Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Coidzor wrote:
Senko wrote:
Jade reagent has a set of rules for a merchant caravan types of wagons, roles for a party, caravan combat rules. Not sure how well they work in practice and there's probably another book that duplicates those rules but take a look in the jade reagent part of the forums there may be something there.
Just remember that the subsystem as a whole is a bit rubbish, especially the combat, and can require anything from minor tweaking to completely throwing things out and rewriting them or using what someone else wrote when they did that.
We're playing Jade Regent now, and have never used the combat system (which does look like rubbish - too abstract given the plethora of PC abnilities it doesn't even try to integrate). But it works just fine as an abstract mobile base. On occasion, we will even place the wagons on the combat map and fight around & over them.
Of course what you *really* want is a TARDIS-style wagon, bigger on the inside than on the outside.
My secret dream is to play a full-crafter Wizard and to build an animated, flying, burrowing, swimming, mithral colossal Longship from scratch. It would be a nice mobile base indeed.
It wouldn't even cost much if all party members contributed.
You could acquire a Lyre of Building and build your castle whenever you needed to.
You could carry stuff around in Portable Holes or Bags of Holding.
I was in 2 campaigns with a GM who liked flying ships. It the first, it turned out to be almost more trouble than it was worth. In the 2nd, the party screwed up and lost the ship. It wasn't our ship, and we were put off like Jonah.
I kind of like the idea of combining Boots of Teleportation and Bracelet of Friends. You go wherever you want; then you summon your friends to you, along with your camp, I guess.
I'm currently running the Giantstayer campaign which features a lot of travel around the Mindspin Mountains. I was less interested in dealing with a lot of overland travel and most of the books are away from populated areas, so I built a parallel quest in for the PCs to build an airship with the help of a retired PC who I kept around (a crafting focused wizard). They got it up and running during book 3 and now use it as a mobile base of sorts. They've got a small team of NPCs manning it acting a bit like a logisitics arm for their strike force. The airship doesn't go into combat (yet) and mostly gives them a place to fall back to or to run for supplies from town (with necessary delays). They don't have on demand access to teleport, so this is a good way to make it so they can do stuff in reasonable amounts of time.
Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
cavernshark wrote:
I'm currently running the Giantstayer campaign which features a lot of travel around the Mindspin Mountains. I was less interested in dealing with a lot of overland travel and most of the books are away from populated areas, so I built a parallel quest in for the PCs to build an airship with the help of a retired PC who I kept around (a crafting focused wizard). They got it up and running during book 3 and now use it as a mobile base of sorts. They've got a small team of NPCs manning it acting a bit like a logisitics arm for their strike force. The airship doesn't go into combat (yet) and mostly gives them a place to fall back to or to run for supplies from town (with necessary delays). They don't have on demand access to teleport, so this is a good way to make it so they can do stuff in reasonable amounts of time.
Highlights:
11,100 gp for a by-the-book flying wagon.
3192 # light load, 4000 # medium (max load).
speed of 30', Fly 60' [clumsy]
7 HD and 4 CP.
No one thinks a wagon moves on its own, and it does not detect as magic, so would likely be ignored by powerful things troubling you, and can overcome wimps troubling your campsite.
One of the ideas I had saw floating around the net is the use of wagons and turning them into mobile buildings and such. This seems to be a worthwhile idea, especially as RL shows that it can be done for a time.
Has anyone done this before? What rules are followed for it? If this was used in a campaign, how did it get implemented?
Nobody is going to mention one of the best magical items in game?FOLDING BOAT IS WHAT YOU NEED!For only 7200g you have a mobile base you can pick up whenever you want.Also you can have a really stupid password so thats fun.
Nobody is going to mention one of the best magical items in game?FOLDING BOAT IS WHAT YOU NEED!For only 7200g you have a mobile base you can pick up whenever you want.Also you can have a really stupid password so thats fun.
A variant folding boat that also stored your stuff would be great
Nobody is going to mention one of the best magical items in game?FOLDING BOAT IS WHAT YOU NEED!For only 7200g you have a mobile base you can pick up whenever you want.Also you can have a really stupid password so thats fun.
A variant folding boat that also stored your stuff would be great
Yeah that would be great.But if shelter is the neee and not storage it's a great option.You can also use it like a wall or barrier so it has other uses.And technically in its box form it is a box in which you can store a small amount haha.
Nobody is going to mention one of the best magical items in game?FOLDING BOAT IS WHAT YOU NEED!For only 7200g you have a mobile base you can pick up whenever you want.Also you can have a really stupid password so thats fun.
A variant folding boat that also stored your stuff would be great
I was suggesting Portable Hole(s).
I suggested earlier on this thread the combination of Portable Hole and Lyre of Building. Portable Hole to carry your stuff; Lyre of Building to build the home you want on location.
You could always use your Lyre of Building to build the boat you need, then you could sell the boat when your quest takes you into the mountains.
A Folding Boat is nice, especially if it's not competing for WBL with combat gear, but it's not what I would think of as a base.
Bases generally allowing for you to leave things that aren't high value targets or maguffins there in relative safety if you don't feel like hauling it around with you.
