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How much of those could be replaced with a single Traveller's Any-Tool?As a life long player of Rogues and Rogue-like characters, I quite often spend more of my available money on utility items, bribes, various consumables, etc.
My current PFS rogue, who is level 9, only has +2 leather armor and +1 weapons...but she has a Handy Haversack filled to the brim with something useful for just about any situation that might come up. :)
Only a few actually
How much of those could be replaced with a single Traveller's Any-Tool?As a life long player of Rogues and Rogue-like characters, I quite often spend more of my available money on utility items, bribes, various consumables, etc.
My current PFS rogue, who is level 9, only has +2 leather armor and +1 weapons...but she has a Handy Haversack filled to the brim with something useful for just about any situation that might come up. :)
Good point! Those things are great! I don't know how PFS-legal an Any-Tool is, though.
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I didn't bother with an Any-tool, since I could just dump the standard tools into my haversack...here is the current list of mundane and alchemical items I carry in my haversack (this does not include any magical gear)
Acid Flask (3)
Alchemist's Fire (3)
Backpack (masterwork)
Bandolier (2)
Bedroll
Bell (10)
Belt pouch (2)
Blotter
Caltrops
Candle (10)
Chalk (10)
Chalkboard
Chewing stick
Cleats
Cold weather outfit
Comb
Crowbar
Dagger
Dagger, Alchemical Silver
Dagger, Cold iron
Dice
Dice, Loaded (DC 25)
Everburning Torch
Fishhook (10)
Flint and steel
Folding pole
Grappling hook
Hairbrush
Hammer
Handaxe
Holy symbol, compartment
Holy Water (3)
Hot weather outfit
Incense (10)
Inkpen
Iron vial (2)
Knife for cutting quills into pens
Magnet
Manacles (masterwork)
Marbles
Mess kit
Mirror (small/steel)
Nail file
Parchment (10)
Pen nibs
Pigment for making ink
Piton (10)
Pole, folding
Powder
Quarterstaff
Rations (7 days)
Ruler, small
Sack
Sap
Saw
Scissors
Scroll case
Shovel
Signal whistle
Silk rope (100 ft.)
Sling
Small tent
Soap (2)
Sponge
String (50 ft.)
Thieves' tools (masterwork)
Tooth Powder
Vial (10)
Waterskin
Wayfinder
Wind chime (10)
Wire
Wrist sheath, spring loaded (2)
Some of this stuff was part of packaged kits (Grooming kit, Scriveners kit, etc)
Hope you had all the sharp bits like the knives, daggers, saw, and crowbar properly covered or else you could puncture your bag. Also, last time I checked, a Wayfinder was a Magic Item.
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wait is this pathfinder or starfinder
A bit of both...started off as a discussion about wealth per level being too restrictive for people to buy anything but power boosting items, so I pointed out that not everyone is like that. I buy lots of assorted junk, because you never know when it might come in handy. :)
Reminds me of that ancient Shadowrun joke:
"Get enough credits from a run to restart your life and enough surplus funds to feed yourself for the rest of your life. Spend it all on plastic explosives instead."
Three things:
First, punctuation and spacing are important;
Second, the rules already allow for a near-infinite variety of 5cr, - or L bulk items by saying that if the player asks for something reasonable that isn't listed yet and offers little mechanical benefit you can just make it;
Third, thanks to purely technological items it's not hard to hit every one of those categories every couple of levels and need to spend a bunch of credits to do it. And that's without spending much on things he didn't mention like medkits, computers, planetary vehicles, or Null-space Chambers.
A note to Rothlis - it's WORN magical items you are limited to two of. Fusions, armor upgrades, personal upgrades, held magical or hybrid items, etc are explicitly excepted from the rule.
Edit: It's also three stats that can be buffed, with a +6, +4, and +2. You cannot use more than one upgrade per stat.
... you cab only have 2 total magic items this includes the hybrid items that also count as magic items
Let's be real, here, it's probably less like "2 Magic/Hybrid Items" and closer to "a Ring of Resistance and either a Null-Space Chamber or Efficient Bandolier." I'm not sure if a weapon with a Fusion on it counts against your limit, though.
you can get a huge collection of fusion seals to mix and match on your weapons
Not really, no, unless you plan to replace those quite a few times. Even though it will probably save you money in the long run to buy a high level Fusion Seal, you won't be able to afford it.
Let's be real, here, it's probably less like "2 Magic/Hybrid Items" and closer to "a Ring of Resistance and either a Null-Space Chamber or Efficient Bandolier." I'm not sure if a weapon with a Fusion on it counts against your limit, though.
... you cab only have 2 total magic items this includes the hybrid items that also count as magic items
NSC is exempted from the limit by dint of being held. Same with Aeon stones, FWIW.
Still "Ring of Resistance and something else" though. Hard to argue with save bonuses, especially when everything else in the game seems to be calibrated so that every +1 matters.
Mindlink Circlet might not be a bad alternative item if you don't naturally have telepathy though, the game seems to want you to. Charge cloak is a potentially viable option for someone who only uses one type of attack that requires ammunition or charges as well.
You can probably wear two resistance rings.
The Null-Space Chamber says it attaches to things like your arm or a bag, so it's not entirely clear if it's worn or not. It's also not clear on what it or the rift looks like, where the rift appears, or how big it or the rift is.
You can probably wear two resistance rings.I'm pretty sure you can. This is super unnecessary for many characters, though.
Mystic and Technomancer can benefit from two, yes. The other classes all have 2 good saves, though.
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Mystic and Technomancer can benefit from two, yes. The other classes all have 2 good saves, though.You can probably wear two resistance rings.I'm pretty sure you can. This is super unnecessary for many characters, though.
Technically speaking, it doesn't add to bad Saves from Class, it adds to your worst Save. In fact, something like a Dex-based Soldier or Solarian can easily wind up with Reflex (their theoretical bad Save) as their highest Save, in which case the Ring wouldn't add to it.
But yeah, most characters won't need it. Though Solarians might well make decent use if this, having less points to invest in Wis and Con than many others.
You gain an enhancement bonus to saving throws with your lowest base saving throw bonus.
That means your bad save(s), does it not?
The Null-Space Chamber says it attaches to things like your arm or a bag, so it's not entirely clear if it's worn or not. It's also not clear on what it or the rift looks like, where the rift appears, or how big it or the rift is.
My readings of it are that it's a handheld device, you can just strap it to something else for convenience, in the same way you can a shield. It's not like it takes the back slot if you do strap it to your backpack, and you still need to manipulate it in order to access stuff inside.
That's not how I was interpreting that, but looking at it again, I think you're right. Interesting.You gain an enhancement bonus to saving throws with your lowest base saving throw bonus.That means your bad save(s), does it not?
Yeah, it's definitely (one of) your bad save(s), you have to go off the lowest class base bonus without considering any attribute or feat bonuses.
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WBL feels, to be honest, a bit like the result of a few sacred cows being held over from Pathfinder.
'We need weapon and armour upgrading' leading to the odd weapon system we have right now, leading to 'We need wealth by level to work out how much they can spend on this' leading to 'Spaceships can't have a money cost or they'll break WBL'.
Starfinder needs a future-tech swiss army knife.
That is basically the mechanics custom rig. It basically is in effect a mass effect omni tool.
Starfinder needs a future-tech swiss army knife.That is basically the mechanics custom rig. It basically is in effect a mass effect omni tool.
I mean sure, but it's be nice if everyone could have something like that and the Mechanic got an even better version.
One of the hand augs is a future tech swiss army knife. Ish, anyway.
I have had a GM reduce treasure because we were too close to the higher limit of WBL.
So take away no, but take away possible yes.It is also one rule I ignore frequently.
MDC
Interesting. Presumably if you fall to the lower limit of WBL, they'll throw more treasure in. Either the GM was giving out too much wealth prior, or the characters were being more efficient than expected. The former is just balancing when you get treasure (earlier vs later encounters). However, the second is sending the signal to players they should be less efficient and use more expendables, or else they'll get penalized down the line for not using them. I wonder if the GM was aware of that implication.
Pathfinder and Starfinder both have some built in assumptions about loss of wealth (i.e. expendables, items sold at 50% or 10%) as you play and have some excess wealth per encounter built in, such that if you add it straight up, its more than WBL. In Starfinder, that excess is 50%. It looks to be intentionally set there, probably because items sell for 10%, and you can't directly upgrade your armor and weapons. Thus, they are expecting you to lose about 1/3 of your total earning on those wealth sinks.
I'll be interested to see how SFS plays out in the mid and high levels relative to WBL. Efficient players who really think about when to upgrade may have 20-30% more wealth, but scattered between more types of equipment which don't get upgraded (Augmentations, Armor upgrades, hand held magic items and gear). The primary combat gear, base armor and weapons, however you can't be too efficient as they have to be replaced once in a while.
As an example, my 2nd level Solarian has an effective wealth of 2969 credits, just from the initial 1000 plus credit rewards of the scenarios, not including boon rewards. Based on the credit rewards listed for tiers 3 and 4 (1460-1480ish each), I expect to have earned 5,100 by 3, 9,500 by 4th, and 13,900 by 5th. In that time, I expect to have to sell my armor once. Weapon might upgrade once, but maybe not. Next weapon I really want is at 8th (Advanced Pike upgrade from Tactical Pike). Depending on expendable usage, I'll probably be sitting on 13,400 credits. Which makes it easy by the start of 5th level to afford a Jetpack, Dermal Plating mk I, Climbing Suckers, +2 Str personal upgrade, level 4 armor, Infrared sensors, level 1 ranged weapon with fusion, level 2 melee weapon with fusion, and still have a little over 1,000 credits left over.
Only the armor and weapon are losses (and maybe the Jetpack - depends on Forcepack rulings) in that setup, all the other stuff I keep until level 12 (or 20). And to be honest, I probably keep the two low level weapons as backup instead of selling them.
Hiruma Kai,
You know what they say "Your battle plan lasts as long as you do not engage the enemy"
By that I mean it looks good. Your plan but I have found when gaming that often it is the things you do not plan on that get you.
For example I do not see food, clothing, housing, etc in your budget. You know the typical living expenses you have if you do not want to live on your free starship with I assume free food.
I also see you have a pike, which IIRC does not require batteries and thus recharging, which I can see as a big possible expenditure of funds if you have long battles (and have to pay for recharges and do not get them free)
With your 1000 left over I would assume you bought quite a few healing serums and maybe some other med devices so that might take a big chunk of of your 1000.I do agree that SFS Org play is vastly different than home play with it rules on what you can and cannot do with equipment and money. IIRC you can give or loan equipment but not money but I could be wrong.
MDC
In SFS, you can loan equipment and they can use your consumables in play, but they can't leave the scenario with anything of yours. Money can be pooled for spellcasting services for example.
I admit I didn't list the travel clothing sets, hygiene kit, binders x2, 50' titanium alloy cable line, flashlight, backpack, field rations, as all told that is like 100 credits and within the rounding errors. I'm also carrying around 2 healing serums which I have not needed to use yet in 3 scenarios. I admitted in my post it does depend on expendable usage, although that so far has been zero for my character. Resolve points have been sufficient for my healing needs.
SFS scenarios so far have had the Starfinder society pay for transit when required or provide the ship (which we assumed included meals when traveling). If you're trekking across a jungle, then keeping an eye on food is probably worth while, and I'll be using my 1 credit each field rations, but otherwise not too important. Certainly the scenarios I've played and then read so far don't reference lodging costs, presumably because once on site it takes 1 day to complete the scenario.
If I were in a home campaign without a Starship and the GM was concerned about weekly housing costs, the character in question would take a single rank in a profession like writer or professor, and perform their job while sitting in that room in between adventures or during down time. 28 credits a week is more than enough for food and cheap rental lodging. If you're actually adventuring, the housing costs are trivial compared to the amount you typically pull in over the time period (i.e. 1 day pulls in 720 credits).
Note: I do not remember if it was in the SF Core Rules but I do seem to remember a rule that says if you buy lodgings for long periods of time you get a discount. But I do not remember where or if it is in the SF Core.
SF Core Rulebook, page 233, under "Lodgings".
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I just look up the info,
(I hope it is ok to post this if not alert a mod and delete it)
Common Meal: 3cr/meal
Ration; 1 Cr/weekBed:
Efficiency: 3 per night
Sleep pod: 1 per night
Suit by bed: 5-10 Cr/bedSo you can see you can get away with 1 Cr per week on rations (ok for my ex-slave/freed slave android) but for common people it is 27 Cr per week. But if you are playing the child of a Noble then your food cost probably is higher.
You can also see the same scale with lodgings and apply the range based on PC background.
Note: I do not remember if it was in the SF Core Rules but I do seem to remember a rule that says if you buy lodgings for long periods of time you get a discount. But I do not remember where or if it is in the SF Core.MDC
That's also eating out every meal at someplace actually decent rather than fast food. Fast Food type stuff is one credit a meal. And eating out every meal is kinda supposed to be crazy expensive.
Really, there are several not necessarily true assumptions here.
Check this thread for a more complete breakdown and how much people can actually earn, and actually need to spend (hint: +5 bonuses to Profession checks are available with really cheap items).
If it helps, think about how much it actually costs to make a restaurant dish vs what you pay at the establishment. For what you spend on a burger, fries, and drink at your average fast food place you can probably make the same meal for four.
As I recall, it wasn't in the Pathfinder Core either, or any of the expansions, but it was talked about how most peasants only get a few gold a week, and I always assumed that was after expenses.
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WBL is a mechanic that's in place to enable the build of,characters at levels higher than first level. It gives you a spending point to equip said character with gear that's more likely to enable their survival and success in level appropriate adventures.
And that's pretty much all it is as far as meaningful rules.
Other than that it is just a guide for where GMs should aim in order to provide relatively balanced games within the power context of the ruleset.
What I find much more telling (and binding) in Starfinder, is the recommendation of only allowing the use of gear one level higher than your current character level (at most). This is going to keep you in the power range requirement far more than an arbitrary wealth limit.
...or completely out of it because people will hoard their credits because they don't want to miss out on 'the best gear they need' with only a 10% sell-back value for current gear.
Something I want to test is capping available item level at party level and then overloading PCs with money.
The worst thing I can see them do is actually using grenades.
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(...)What I find much more telling (and binding) in Starfinder, is the recommendation of only allowing the use of gear one level higher than your current character level (at most). This is going to keep you in the power range requirement far more than an arbitrary wealth limit.
I absolutely agree with you that the level requirement does a much better job of keeping the power range limited than the WBL cap in Pathfinder, but it's worth noting that you can shop up to level +2 gear in a major settlement (Absalom station certainly qualifies) and GMs can make higher level items available for an increased purchase price or as a sidequest. My vesk envoy just signed a sponsorship deal* with Abadar Armor Incorporated that gave him a one-time level+3 armor voucher! All he had to do was sell out his appearance and dignity. :)
"I never would have made it out of the Drift Rock alive without AbadarCorp's patented™ force field technology!"
"The alien technology we found onboard the Drift Rock is amazing, but it's nothing compared to my trusty AbadarCorp comm unit! Now with Angry Birds!"
"The Akatas were all over me, thank God my Trusty Abadar Armory Heavy Armor kept me safe!"
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(...)What I find much more telling (and binding) in Starfinder, is the recommendation of only allowing the use of gear one level higher than your current character level (at most). This is going to keep you in the power range requirement far more than an arbitrary wealth limit.I absolutely agree with you that the level requirement does a much better job of keeping the power range limited than the WBL cap in Pathfinder, but it's worth noting that you can shop up to level +2 gear in a major settlement (Absalom station certainly qualifies) and GMs can make higher level items available for an increased purchase price or as a sidequest. My vesk envoy just signed a sponsorship deal* with Abadar Armor Incorporated that gave him a one-time level+3 armor voucher! All he had to do was sell out his appearance and dignity. :)
** spoiler omitted **
That's why I called it a recommendation.
All WBL and gear level restrictions are there to do is provide a reference point around which to balance encounters and keep the game challenging.
You can go ahead and break those limits as much as you want, but don't be surprised if the game starts feeling wonky when you do.
Pathfinder already broke pretty hard in terms of encounter design once you got past level 10 to 15. WBL had no real influence on that. I haven't played high level Starfinder yet, but I get the distinct impression it's stable play range is going to be much higher than pathfinders. If you play around with the gear restrictions, threat may longer hold true.
That's why I called it a recommendation.
Oh, I understand now - I thought you were repeating the CRB's recommendation on max level gear. Whose recommendation were you thinking of? I'd be very interested in a Starfinder gear guide if someone has released one. :)
As a GM who once (oh, about thirty or so years ago) learned a hard lesson about allowing a starting character have a panther assault cannon in Shadowrun, I don't mind guideline mechanics likes this. Helps make up the difference when common sense fails us.
It also makes dungeon writing a bit more sensible by showing the averages and therefore where you can have fun bucking the averages (for me anyway).
By the way, I solved the panther cannon problem by putting the party in a situation where they had to swim to freedom.
It's not easy (i.e. impossible) to swim Elliot Bay with an assault cannon and ammo as it turns out...