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The book is meant to give rules for life on the road as an adventurer...not rules for a stay at home mom. ;)
Hey! That mom was an adventurer too until she took a gyrojet to her knee.
I think what bugs me more is that wealth is typically used to enhance the character's stats on the character sheet, rather than actually being used how wealth is used in a realistic setting.
Since WBL became a thing. I rarely see people spend money on influence, politics, homes, businesses, donations, churches, or even just personal enjoyment. It's always about getting the next +1.
Edit: An odd though: "always about getting the next +1" sounds a lot like "always trying to get the next high." And money is spent solely in pursuit of u, above and beyond all things. There's only one conclusion: WBL is an addiction.
That's not because of WBL, but because the ability of buy things. Players tend to spend on things that make the chars more powerful. If you remove WBL, and give them an ad hoc amoubt of gold, they'll spend such ad hoc amount of gold in making their weapons better.
Same goes with utility items, as the OP said. Regardless of WBL, whenever a player can choose between raising his to hit, or saves, or AC, and have some cool item that transforms into a magic tent with warm enviroment, they will choose to raise their to hit, saves or AC. Regardless of if the mobey is,part of WBL, or random generated.
The «problem» here, if any, is that you can buy items.
Also, it doesn't help that most «utility items» are grossly overpriced.
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I'd really liked to have seen some separation of 'Permanent stuff' and 'Consumable stuff' with pricing so you don't have to rely on the GM handling returning consumable expenses.
Like maybe having you not BUY consumables. You instead buy a licence to fabricate them, which lets you have 3 fabricated at any one time on your ship. Making them more like 3/day items rather than once off.
yes that 100%
to me most ofthe utility or flavor items are priced too high for their usefulness
for example, some of the rings (looking at you camoflauge ring) and the serums that give bonuses to certain skills
I've just started GMing but one thing that I find might help with that is if the GM just makes them drops. I dropped some Bonding Epoxy at the players for example and they've already responded by gluing a grenade to a beer bottle before checking it at some thugs.
I added one point of slashing damage to the ensuing explosion.
What exactly stops a 1st-level character from looting the 20th-level gear from a 20th-level corpse*? Is the galaxy law enforcement going to show up and say "you don't have a license for that"?
* Who died from natural causes I guess, because let's face it, a 1st-level is never going to ice a 20th-level.
What exactly stops a 1st-level character from looting the 20th-level gear from a 20th-level corpse*? Is the galaxy law enforcement going to show up and say "you don't have a license for that"?
* Who died from natural causes I guess, because let's face it, a 1st-level is never going to ice a 20th-level.
Nothing at all. Item "levels" are just Starfinder's method of handling item rarity - I think it's relatively bizarre it uses a static method rather than making you roll to find things, as most other similar systems use (such as Shadowrun or Necromunda), but it's not an intrinsically new RPG mechanic. What *is* new is that it's static - a level 1 PC is supposed to automatically fail to find a vendor selling level 2 rope.
I really hope Paizo gives us generic rules for making items to a specific level. Right now, I have to eyeball my GM and make him groan if I try to something as simple as make a level 2 chair, since we have no generic way to correlate cost with level.
Rule 0 - The DM has to step in and keep the game in line with how they want it to be run. The only circumstance where a PC can find an item beyond their power level is one which the DM allowed to happen in the first place.
(This isn't intended to sound snarky. I'm genuinely attempting to answer your question.)
Nothing at all. Item "levels" are just Starfinder's method of handling item rarity - I think it's relatively bizarre it uses a static method rather than making you roll to find things, as most other similar systems use (such as Shadowrun or Necromunda), but it's not an intrinsically new RPG mechanic. What *is* new is that it's static - a level 1 PC is supposed to automatically fail to find a vendor selling level 2 rope.
I actually like Starfinder's approach much better. It's frustrating to want to buy something and then roll badly and "Nope, you can't find rope here too bad".
And it's not as restrictive as what you're describing. From the rules:
The game assumes that in typical settlements you can find and purchase anything with an item level no greater than your character level + 1, and at major settlements items up to your character level + 2.
So at Absalom Station you can BUY a Level 3 rope no problem for your Level 1 character for example.
The BUY is important too. There's nothing keeping a GM from just giving Level 1 characters Level 4 equipment through friendly NPCs or loot drops or whatever if they want to. Heck that can be a great adventure hook. Would the PCs join the friendly local Devourer cult because they're giving out Level 4 rope as a joining bonus? Do the PCs want to break into a heavily protected AbadarCrop vault to steal a Level 5 chair? Maybe!
What exactly stops a 1st-level character from looting the 20th-level gear from a 20th-level corpse*? Is the galaxy law enforcement going to show up and say "you don't have a license for that"?
* Who died from natural causes I guess, because let's face it, a 1st-level is never going to ice a 20th-level.
Nothing at all. Item "levels" are just Starfinder's method of handling item rarity - I think it's relatively bizarre it uses a static method rather than making you roll to find things, as most other similar systems use (such as Shadowrun or Necromunda), but it's not an intrinsically new RPG mechanic. What *is* new is that it's static - a level 1 PC is supposed to automatically fail to find a vendor selling level 2 rope.
I really hope Paizo gives us generic rules for making items to a specific level. Right now, I have to eyeball my GM and make him groan if I try to something as simple as make a level 2 chair, since we have no generic way to correlate cost with level.
Per the game's rules, a level 1 character could easily find and obtain level 2 rope, or even level 3 rope if they are in a large population center.
As for crafting, a level 1 character attempting to make a level 2 chair will be about as successful as Benjamin Martin and his rocking chairs. When he finally succeeds, it will be because he's learned from his past experiences (or did some research) and leveled up to level 2 first.
What exactly stops a 1st-level character from looting the 20th-level gear from a 20th-level corpse*? Is the galaxy law enforcement going to show up and say "you don't have a license for that"?
* Who died from natural causes I guess, because let's face it, a 1st-level is never going to ice a 20th-level.
A GM who isn't stupid enough to have a 20th level character with full gear drop dead in front of 1st level PC?
Much like that doesn't happen in any game.
Yes, the example is a bit contrived I admit, but my point still stands.
You can't currently make any item to any level except what it's listed at in the book, and if it's not in the book, we have no guidance. I was referring to a level 2 character trying to make a level 2 chair, not a level 1 character doing it.
That said, thanks for pointing out the bit about buying up to level+1 or level+2 - I definitely missed that.
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You can certainly houserule a sub system whereby you gain reputation with factions and each faction then allows you to buy their own special equipment at higher and higher tiers. It's certainly loads of fun in video games and I can see it being fun in Starfinder homebrew as well. But I think the default streamlined option in the base game is great and I do like it significantly better than the sliding percentage chance roll in Pathfinder.
Items having levels is a great guide for me as a GM as well. I can just glance at a certain item and tell immediately how it realtes to the party I have. In Pathfinder I have to correlate items to the Gold cost and then remember how much WBL they should be at to make a judgement on whether I should provide it to the players in a dungeon or not.
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I'm sure someone else will or likely already has brought this point up; but given that we've already got gear level limits, its not like WBL is going to necessarily need to be stuck to. I find its more of a minimum amount of expected gear by credits.
If you've got less than the WBL, the GM will probably need to give them more, sure... But if the GM ends up accidentally giving the party like... Twice the WBL for the APL. That's not much of an issue; you're still limited by gear level, so the party may either have to decide to buy largely redundant gear for a situational benefit (like, 4 different types of guns with different damage types), OR, they could start grabbing the utility items.
I mean... What's a level 1 character going to do with 10,000 credits? That's probably more money than you'd need to buy most Level 3 items and lower.
... Actually, now that I think about it, if I ran a campaign that had XCOM esque themes, I should very well give them that much, tell them they haven't "researched" certain items yet when the game starts, and then watch as they buy a couple of Urban Cruisers, and then crash one of them to take out a Grey that put the rest of the team to sleep.
I'll let everyone else decide if that's a good trade off to be able to reverse engineer the Ray Gun the grey was holding, or to do an Autopsy.
Also, lets say a party of level 1 heroes do luck out and have a level 20 character drop dead in front of him, and loot the corpse. Is some magical Item Level Police going to show up? No, of course not.
However, if they aren't careful with where they *use* said gear, than word is going to get around that these random noobs have bleeding edge equipment that would make a spec-ops team jealous. This means the relevant authority figures *are* going to get curious. Even places that have no regulations about private citizens having beyond-milspec gear are going to be very interested in why this random group of people has tech *waaaay* beyond their ( apparent ) means. This certainly *looks* like something weird, and worth investigating.
More worrisome for the party, though, would be all the *other* groups of adventurer-equivalents out there. From their perspective, you all have now become an easy loot run. For a group of level 10 mercenaries, killing you to take your stuff is just good common sense. . . and not really *that* much harder for you having that level 20 gear.
This is why you just sell the gear for a loss under the table, and trade in for gear that isn't going to paint a target on your back.
... Or... Don't wave your ill gotten gains around in public. You keep it in a duffel bag, and bring it out when you're storming a place.
... Also, wear a mask when you do that. Don't want the survivors to be able to identify you and tie you to the gear.
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I mean, you can only rob the dead once.
My solution, after careful soul searching, is to ignore WBL as a "hard and fast" rule.
Meaning, eh, it's an average.
I will restrict my players to level +1 gear though to stop power gaming equipment. If they end up filthy rich, then they do.
I use it as an auditing tool when a group makes it to the next level. Have I kept them between their last level and their new one as they move up?
I mean, you can only rob the dead once.
You've never met a lich I presume.
well, a robbed corpse no longer has the loot that was taken from them and it is common military practice to use equipment taken from the corpse of a slain foe. many military units divide the gear of enemy corpses among the living members who can use the gear or at least need it, or similarly divide the gear of fallen allies in a similar way, because a fallen soldier has no need for the gear on their corpse.
Not making a point one way or the other... but if a a level 1 picked up a lvl 20's gear a lvl 10 would be along real quick to take it from them...
Say that is a nice X canon you got their give it or i kill you!
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See, I have no problems with preventing the use of higher level gear, even if found on the corpses of the dead enemies of a spec ops gone wrong.
The level of the equipment indicates not only its balance point, but as an example of in game reasoning, may well be beyond the experience and know how of the players in it's correct use.
Level 1 and 2 gear is simple point and click type gear. Almost anyone can use it!
Level five gear means you've had enough experience around weaponry and military equipment that you can now use it, whereas before you're just pressing random buttons and hoping.
Level 20 is just "um.....I'm not even sure where the ammo goes?"
For me the level restriction is just a game mechanic abstraction for a whole bunch of reasons why characters just aren't able to use
Solution: Give out fun Utility items as bonus fluff, and let your PCs spend their cash on their own items. Only count weapons/armor towards WBL budget. Problem solved?