So here are some hard data coming from the book.
a) A Tiara can teleport someone (and their friends) anywhere in the Galaxy for 800k. For 400k you can get the same deal daily but only for the system you are already in.
b) The cost of a 6th level spell that requires resolve is about 45k
All that in a split second. No random encounters or time to travel that is based on die rolls.
Taking into account all the other notes about costs rising in the second case when the designated location is dangerous and that maybe the actual cost rises up to 90k or more because the Technomancer might consider his own teleportation back as part of the deal...
What is a good exchange rate cr to bp ?
Are there factors I missed that should be valued in ?
Is shipbulding a bull or a bear market according to the setting ? :P
Ok so can we quantify some approximation or at least indulge ourselves in a discussion about ships vs tiaras and how all this sums into credits?
Do you mean to say that the question is without any merit in a way?
Also a potential energy source for your weapons (if large enough).
EDIT:
If you are the GM, set a price you deem reasonable. However you come to that price is up to you.
Starfinder left it intentionally out, to simplify the running of the game.
If you put a price on a ship, you now have a conversion ratio between building points and credits.
Next level up, your players might have the idea: "hey, we acquired some more building points, you think we can spare one and sell it for some nice new weapons for ourselves?"
The answer is creating an equivalency will ruin game balance and ruin the in game economics.
From a realistic perspective, star ships would be incredibly valuable compared to individual personal gear. But if this is allowed then you'll have players selling bits of space ships to have the best personal gear in the galaxy. And since in Starfinder a majority of offensive power comes directly from weapons, and defensive power comes from armor this is a bad idea.
I would go with the basic 1 BP = 4000 gold/credits from Pathfinder (maybe round it up to 5000 credits so it's easier to calculate).
This would put a T1 ship at 275k credits (T10 = 1,35 Mio credits) - I think this is a reasonable price for a ship/mobile armed player base. ;)
The answer is creating an equivalency will ruin game balance and ruin the in game economics.
From a realistic perspective, star ships would be incredibly valuable compared to individual personal gear. But if this is allowed then you'll have players selling bits of space ships to have the best personal gear in the galaxy. And since in Starfinder a majority of offensive power comes directly from weapons, and defensive power comes from armor this is a bad idea.
I dare to think a new way of tackling this issue. Instead of gifting a ship to my 1st level characters I ... will not do so. I ''ll have them long it and want it and pay it with what ever credits they manage to gather.
Therefore, I need to put BPs into credits.
I would go with the basic 1 BP = 4000 gold/credits from Pathfinder (maybe round it up to 5000 credits so it's easier to calculate).
This would put a T1 ship at 275k credits (T10 = 1,35 Mio credits) - I think this is a reasonable price for a ship/mobile armed player base. ;)
I 'm really torned now. 275K seems little money for a t1 ship. 55 BP for 275 is like 5k per BP.
On the other hand the Lane_S approach of 100k per BP seems too pricey as well.
Then again for 5k per BP a party (#4) of 20 level adventurers would hardly be able to own a tier 20 ship. So maybe it's not as little as it seems in the first place.
Did I miss some guideline in the book concerning the ship tiers for party level ?
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Well, I did some back-of-the-envelope math and I think I came up with something pretty interesting, just to throw my two cents in.
So I assumed that while prices may vary between real world and Starfinder, the prices ratio between items WITHIN THE SAME BROAD CATAGORY may not. So, I took the price of a known vehicle, a basic Enercycle (700 credits) and compared it to an equivalent item in the real world, a new moped, roughly $4000 (after taxes, etc.)
Now while we don't have interplanetary starships to compare, I got what I thought was the closest thing. A Virginia-class submarine has a life-support system, weapons, sonar (sensors) etc. They cost 2.7 billion dollars a pop.
Doing the math I came up with 472.5 million credits. I would guesstimate that's how much a new destroyer in starfinder would run you.
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The rules and WBL are not set up with the assumption that PCs will buy a ship. They are set up with the assumption that they will, in some manner, acquire one for free of charge (at least in credits) and then use and upgrade it similarly.
Indeed, it is axiomatic to the Starship Rules that you will always have a ship with Tiers equal to the APL.
If you truly wish your PCs to purchase a starship (something neither I nor the rules recommend, it's mechanically not supported, and it's also much more fun of they have to, say, salvage one), then you can assign any amount of money per BP and simply give the PCs the necessary extra money to purchase/upgrade their ship.
However, by doing this you are almost guaranteeing one of two things:
1. The PCs' ship will be vastly too weak for their level, but probably very good at escaping. They will never engage in ship combat. Their non-ship gear will be vastly better than it should be and make them overpowering in personal confrontation.
2. The PCs' ship will rapidly be unstoppably badass. They will utterly destroy all opposition in starship combat, yes even with the higher difficulties from it being over-tiered. Their non-ship equipment will lag behind a bit.
The first is more likely the higher you make the credit cost per BP, the latter is more likely the lower you make it. Both are bad.
The answer is creating an equivalency will ruin game balance and ruin the in game economics.
From a realistic perspective, star ships would be incredibly valuable compared to individual personal gear. But if this is allowed then you'll have players selling bits of space ships to have the best personal gear in the galaxy. And since in Starfinder a majority of offensive power comes directly from weapons, and defensive power comes from armor this is a bad idea.
I dare to think a new way of tackling this issue. Instead of gifting a ship to my 1st level characters I ... will not do so. I ''ll have them long it and want it and pay it with what ever credits they manage to gather.
Therefore, I need to put BPs into credits.
I would go with the basic 1 BP = 4000 gold/credits from Pathfinder (maybe round it up to 5000 credits so it's easier to calculate).
This would put a T1 ship at 275k credits (T10 = 1,35 Mio credits) - I think this is a reasonable price for a ship/mobile armed player base. ;)I 'm really torned now. 275K seems little money for a t1 ship. 55 BP for 275 is like 5k per BP.
On the other hand the Lane_S approach of 100k per BP seems too pricey as well.
Then again for 5k per BP a party (#4) of 20 level adventurers would hardly be able to own a tier 20 ship. So maybe it's not as little as it seems in the first place.
Did I miss some guideline in the book concerning the ship tiers for party level ?
You didn't miss a guideline, you're expected to have a ship tier equal to your party's CR.
The rule just are designed against what you're trying to do.
Deadmanwalking has covered why, and it is accurate.
You're better off setting it up such that you're party is given a ship in return for their efforts. Not actually trying to buy one with cash.
Think of it like this:
A tier 1 starship has 55 bp. If you said that the party had to buy their own ship, and each bp was worth only 1000 credits, that's a total of 55,000 credits.
Roughly 14 times the level 1 starting wealth of the entire party (assuming 4 players).
So, your party can either collectively acquire 55,000 credits and buy a starship or they can operate from whatever planet they're on use those 55,000 credits to buy level 8 or 9 weapons.
No matter what you do, they math isn't really going to work out in a way that makes sense because it wasn't designed to be done.
I know you really really want to, but it's just never going to work for even a remotely balanced game.
I assumed most of the ships PCs used were on loan from the company they are contracted to, or mortgaged to the hilt. Not a lot of people have their own airplanes or ships. But you do see more people who have access to corporate assets while on company business.
If your main concern is finding a price point that won't break the game's WBL guidelines, here's another suggestion for how to do this, that's tailored to such concerns, from another thread on this topic.
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The other nice thing about NOT tying a starship to the character's wealth is that if you WANT to do a story where they don't have a ship until they accomplish enough magnificent deeds to earn one, you aren't screwing up their wealth by level!
Starship possession is a story event, and not tied to any metrics that the characters have to meet. If you don't run any adventures where they need a ship, then they don't have one. If you run adventures where the ship is someone else's, and it is used to ferry them to and from adventure locations, it's not messing anything up.
There's really only two ways you can screw up the system on this. Run adventures where they NEED a ship (and don't give them access to one), or run adventures where they can use the immense resources that would be required for a ship on other things that then screw up the challenge rating.
If you're giving them credits to buy a ship, and they can't use those credits for anything but the ship, then, basically, earning the ship is a storyline, just like Starfinder recommends. If they can take those credits and spend them on other things (like leveled gear, not like conservation easements), you're going to have considerable balance issues like anyone who gives their players access to substantially above-level gear.
Oh, so your cool with arbitrarily enforcing the rule that says "Don't let them buy high level weapons and armor" but you ignore the part where they purposefully don't put a price on ship stuff?
And if you are setting it up to where they can't sell the ship and buy anything useful and are giving them extra gold to buy the ship, then you're doing exactly what the book is telling you do except your adding in a layer of extra complexity by setting a conversion price that your players can't actually use.
I'm using 1 BP = 4000cr and am treating the starship normally (as in PCs don't have to buy it or upgrade it)
The conversion just makes the world more real.
Im keeping the starship seperate for narritive reasons also i dont plan on giving them extra credits why would i do that thats stupid however i will be adding land based vehicles that they can dump money into if theu really want but starships are a seprate economy as far as im concernedOh, so your cool with arbitrarily enforcing the rule that says "Don't let them buy high level weapons and armor" but you ignore the part where they purposefully don't put a price on ship stuff?
And if you are setting it up to where they can't sell the ship and buy anything useful and are giving them extra gold to buy the ship, then you're doing exactly what the book is telling you do except your adding in a layer of extra complexity by setting a conversion price that your players can't actually use.
That's what I've been try to say the entire time. Starships are a separate "economy" and you shouldn't mix it with the regular PC credit possession.
Setting a conversion rate between BP and credits would indicate to players "Oh hey, I can trade this back and forth".
Do you guys assume your player's characters have homes, own property, or anything of that sort? If so, do you make them pay for it out of their character funds, or is it just part of the background narrative?
If you make those sorts of things part of the background narrative, then why not do the same for ships too?
Do you guys assume your player's characters have homes, own property, or anything of that sort? If so, do you make them pay for it out of their character funds, or is it just part of the background narrative?
Yep
f you make those sorts of things part of the background narrative, then why not do the same for ships too?
That is basically my plan. Well, actually not part of the background narrative but part of the general narrative. Involving the party working for a benefactor which will gift them with a small vessel in exchange for work. And "rewards" from such a benefactor including upgrades to that vessel.