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How much is 1 BP worth?


Starfinder General Discussion


Starfinder Superscriber

I didn't see how much 1 BP for Starships are worth Credit wise. Is it 4k like in Kingmaker? Also how much is a standard StarShip? I haven't had the time to "build one" and add up all the BP so if someone has I would love to see that Number.


Best guess based on the unmodified UBP costs/HP repaired is anywhere from 2,500 cr/BP to 10,000 cr/BP. However, this is just that, a guess. Currently I doubt they'll specify a set value per BP, certainly not anytime soon so as to thwart credit farming for BPs outside of the intended APL = starship tier = BPs used to build said starship.

i.e., a tier 1 55 BP starship runs at least a cool 137.5 kcr to as high as 550 kcr.


No credit value listed. This is most likely due to the fact that the selling of an captured enemy ship, even at 10%, would provide an average group enough credits to fully upgrade themselves by a few levels.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

I'm going to guess this will be one of the most asked questions :)

There is no conversion from BP to Credits. This decisions was made to seperate player gear economy from starship economy.


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vashtheblackseed wrote:
No credit value listed. This is most likely due to the fact that the selling of an captured enemy ship, even at 10%, would provide an average group enough credits to fully upgrade themselves by a few levels.

While this is a problem, it also leaves open the question of what you can actually do with captured enemy ships.


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Salvaging activities during "Downtime" are subsumed in the automatic acquisition of additional BPs as the party improves their APL.

Alternatively, so long as the ship encounters are fair, the group's starship APL/tier may increase in bumps at a GM's discretion as appropriate to a given story.

Example: Initial acquisition may be a tier 5 ship for an APL 4 group. However, it may be 3 levels before they acquire another bump in BPs and sufficient downtime to apply the new BPs to their beloved tramp freighter cum blockade runner.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
avr wrote:
vashtheblackseed wrote:
No credit value listed. This is most likely due to the fact that the selling of an captured enemy ship, even at 10%, would provide an average group enough credits to fully upgrade themselves by a few levels.
While this is a problem, it also leaves open the question of what you can actually do with captured enemy ships.

If you cannot use the components, you patch it up and sell it. Netting you 0 BP and 0 credits because of all the costs of fixing it and finding a buyer who wants to buy a starship that has been on the losing end of a battle and has been fixed.

Kinda like a car that has been in a crash and then fixed up, those are hard to get a profit from.


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avr wrote:
vashtheblackseed wrote:
No credit value listed. This is most likely due to the fact that the selling of an captured enemy ship, even at 10%, would provide an average group enough credits to fully upgrade themselves by a few levels.
While this is a problem, it also leaves open the question of what you can actually do with captured enemy ships.

Have you considered applying missiles to the problem?


In Starfinder characters have two "Wealth by Level" tracks: credits (personal wealth in terms of equipment and/or money for hookers-n-blow) and BP (shared pool used for the group's starship(s), whereon they may enjoy their hookers-n-blow in reasonable privacy unless they get really freaky with one of their ship's expansion bays).

They appear to be kept deliberately separated. :)


avr wrote:
While this is a problem, it also leaves open the question of what you can actually do with captured enemy ships.

If I may provide a suggestion? Drop it on your foes. Turn the engines on, point it in a direction and throw it at whatever planet they live on.

If it works for Adric, it should work for people less annoying than him.


After all the holes I've riddled their ship with, they can keep it.

Besides, ever try to sell a used car that you just smashed up, you won't get much.


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Yeah but literally the first one shot I ever ran, my players managed to capture 2 shuttles and a freighter intact. I managed to fob them off with "Your organisation gets the ships, you get prestige and appreciation from the organisation" but I can see that getting old.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you don't have used starship salesmen haggle them down to nothing, or suggest they strip it for parts, that's more on you.


alternatively you could give out less BP as a whole. Starve them for it then allow them to sale captured ships so the can get some.


Houserules: Yes I would say 4k per BP is fair

Rule extrapolation: Just give normal CR encounter loot for captured ships, saying what you get fluctuates or is reduced due to various factors.

RAW: You get nothing. Stolen ships fund future ship upgrades.


Elegos wrote:
Yeah but literally the first one shot I ever ran, my players managed to capture 2 shuttles and a freighter intact. I managed to fob them off with "Your organisation gets the ships, you get prestige and appreciation from the organisation" but I can see that getting old.

If you play again with these characters, I suggest making a note of it and describing something a bit later on showing them the benefit of having done so. Later on when they are due for an upgrade to their own ship, said organization tells them something to the effect of "You remember the freighter and shuttles you gave us? They let us make a ton of money that we wouldn't have otherwise. Didn't you say your ship could use an overhaul? Take this voucher to the shipyard and get some stuff for your starship. Thanks so much!"


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Elegos wrote:
Yeah but literally the first one shot I ever ran, my players managed to capture 2 shuttles and a freighter intact. I managed to fob them off with "Your organisation gets the ships, you get prestige and appreciation from the organisation" but I can see that getting old.

Alternate answer is: "you sell the ships for a few millions. Now you are rich, and spend the rest of your life living as a millonaire. Build new characters please".


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This largely repeats things that have been said before, but to spell it out a little...

There are two natural answers to “How much is 1 BP worth?”, each of which has some drawbacks.

Take 1. The RAW Answer: Credits and RAW are incommensurable. There’s no (official) way to buy or sell ships, or to pay credits for BP upgrades.

CON: This requires players to suspend belief a bit, and potentially requires some awkward hand-waving from the GM with respect to why each attempt by the players to buy/sell ships, pay for upgrades, etc., doesn’t work.

Take 2. The WBL Answer: If you want to allow ships to be bought and sold, in a way that fits smoothly with the WBL assumptions of the game.

Since WBL and BP by tier scale at different rates, you can’t make a BP worth a constant amount of credits and fit with the games WBL assumptions. Instead, the value of a BP needs to scale with the tier of the ship.

We can determine these values as follows. You want a tier X ship to sell for an amount equal to the amount of wealth players are expected to get in a CR X encounter. And items are generally taken to have a value of x10 what you can sell them for. So the value of a tier X ship, and the worth of each BP for a ship of that tier, are:


  • Tier 1/3 - 1500 - 50 credits/BP
  • Tier 1/2 - 2300 - 57.5 credits/BP
  • Tier 1 - 4600 - 83.6 credits/BP
  • Tier 2 - 7750 - 103.3 credits/BP
  • Tier 3 - 11000 - 115.8 credits/BP
  • Tier 4 - 14000 - 121.8 credits/BP
  • Tier 5 - 31000 - 229.6 credits/BP
  • Tier 6 - 39000 - 251.6 credits/BP
  • Tier 7 - 46000 - 255.6 credits/BP
  • Tier 8 - 54000 - 263.4 credits/BP
  • Tier 9 - 100000 - 434.8 credits/BP
  • Tier 10 - 147000 - 544.4 credits/BP
  • Tier 11 - 250000 - 806.4 credits/BP
  • Tier 12 - 340000 - 971.4 credits/BP
  • Tier 13 - 500000 - 1250 credits/BP
  • Tier 14 - 770000 - 1711.1 credits/BP
  • Tier 15 - 1130000 - 2260 credits/BP
  • Tier 16 - 1780000 - 2966.7 credits/BP
  • Tier 17 - 2600000 - 3714.3 credits/BP
  • Tier 18 - 4050000 - 5062.5 credits/BP
  • Tier 19 - 5550000 - 6166.7 credits/BP
  • Tier 20 - 7820000 - 7820 credits/BP

Game balance-wise, I think these prices work pretty well:

(1) These prices allow players to sell ships they capture without wrecking their WBL (since the values are equal to the amount you’d expected an encounter of that CR to get the players).

(2) These prices aren’t so high that players will be constantly tempted to sell off their ship for gear, since the amount you can get for selling your ship is between 1/5-1/2 of the WBL of *one* player -- a relatively paltry sum for a party of 4.

(3) These prices are high enough so that players won’t be able to simply skimp on equipment to buy a better ship, since the cost of a ship of tier X is 2-5 times the total WBL of a character of level X, and the cost of a ship of tier X+1 is generally beyond the resources of party.

So I think these prices are pretty much what you want to aim for if you’re going to allow regular buying + selling of ships. That said...

CON: These prices make spaceships much cheaper than many sci-fi settings take them to be.


As for selling a ship... Roll xd4 (where X = BP cost of ship) and multiply by 1,000 cr...


Starfinder Superscriber

Yah I do see the problem that is presented here. But on the flip side it would be nice to have actual prices for Ships that can be earned and bought. I was thinking sell prices would be lower due to the fact that these are stolen/refurbished vehicles.

I am not crazy about a Ship growing in power as the party does. I think Ships should be a place to sink Credits into. Give those space pirates a reason to risk it all for that big Heist or why the Mercenary band takes on that dangerous escort mission.


Problem with ships being credit sinks, is that they'll become actually credit fountains.

If the game assumes WBL high enough for a character to have gear plus a ship, then the PC might downgrade the ship just a little bit, and earn a hugh amount of credits to become personally unstopable in normal tactical combat, which is the big part of the game anyways.

This would be the same as rewarding PCs with a castle at lvl 9 in PF. It's cool, but only if the castle can't be sold. A million gold pieces spent in magic items at lvl 9 will make your character pretty much invincible against equivalent CR encounters, and not having a castle is not the end of the world.

Also, many AP and stories could have the PC being part of an organiced group (like the army, the rebels, the Federation, or whatever), which would mean a free ship. All that extra money used in the WBL would become personal power instead.

I think the current solution is good. I suppose others can have a different view, tho.


Starfinder Superscriber
gustavo iglesias wrote:

Problem with ships being credit sinks, is that they'll become actually credit fountains.

If the game assumes WBL high enough for a character to have gear plus a ship, then the PC might downgrade the ship just a little bit, and earn a hugh amount of credits to become personally unstopable in normal tactical combat, which is the big part of the game anyways.

This would be the same as rewarding PCs with a castle at lvl 9 in PF. It's cool, but only if the castle can't be sold. A million gold pieces spent in magic items at lvl 9 will make your character pretty much invincible against equivalent CR encounters, and not having a castle is not the end of the world.

Also, many AP and stories could have the PC being part of an organiced group (like the army, the rebels, the Federation, or whatever), which would mean a free ship. All that extra money used in the WBL would become personal power instead.

I think the current solution is good. I suppose others can have a different view, tho.

Everything you point out makes 100% sense and is 100% accurate. But it does feel like Players are getting freedoms taken from them with this. I would want my Crew to feel like they don't have to wait around for the story to grant them a ship if they wanted to work hard and buy one, and in time another, and another for a Fleet.

How did Shackles handle the issue with Ships that could be captured? Did anyone feel like it completely changed the game with all those Ship battles?


The group can have an entire fleet if the GM is willing to roll with it. There doesn't have to be a fixed numerical structure to make it work. As in S&S if they are able to capture and crew additional vessels, they organically grow their fleet.

Unlike in S&S, however, by RAW they cannot easily coordinate their fleet via Drift travel.

Otherwise, S&S isn't a bad way to ad-hoc a fleet campaign with more reliable numbers to drive this element of a campaign. Ships they capture/defeat (that don't explode) can be cannibalized for parts for 1/10th the captured hull's value. If a ship is effectively a wreck instead of a shattered sphere of super-heated incandescent plasma, 1/100th hull value, making small wrecks not worth the effort to scrap, although looting the frozen corpses of the crew may be a source of pocket change.


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avr wrote:
vashtheblackseed wrote:
No credit value listed. This is most likely due to the fact that the selling of an captured enemy ship, even at 10%, would provide an average group enough credits to fully upgrade themselves by a few levels.
While this is a problem, it also leaves open the question of what you can actually do with captured enemy ships.

Pretend it's where your BP at levelup come from.

Porridge wrote:

This largely repeats things that have been said before, but to spell it out a little...

There are two natural answers to “How much is 1 BP worth?”, each of which has some drawbacks.

Take 1. The RAW Answer: Credits and RAW are incommensurable. There’s no (official) way to buy or sell ships, or to pay credits for BP upgrades.

CON: This requires players to suspend belief a bit, and potentially requires some awkward hand-waving from the GM with respect to why each attempt by the players to buy/sell ships, pay for upgrades, etc., doesn’t work.

Take 2. The WBL Answer: If you want to allow ships to be bought and sold, in a way that fits smoothly with the WBL assumptions of the game.

Since WBL and BP by tier scale at different rates, you can’t make a BP worth a constant amount of credits and fit with the games WBL assumptions. Instead, the value of a BP needs to scale with the tier of the ship.

We can determine these values as follows. You want a tier X ship to sell for an amount equal to the amount of wealth players are expected to get in a CR X encounter. And items are generally taken to have a value of x10 what you can sell them for. So the value of a tier X ship, and the worth of each BP for a ship of that tier, are:


  • Tier 1/3 - 1500 - 50 credits/BP
  • Tier 1/2 - 2300 - 57.5 credits/BP
  • Tier 1 - 4600 - 83.6 credits/BP
  • Tier 2 - 7750 - 103.3 credits/BP
  • Tier 3 - 11000 - 115.8 credits/BP
  • Tier 4 - 14000 - 121.8 credits/BP
  • Tier 5 - 31000 - 229.6 credits/BP
  • Tier 6 - 39000 - 251.6 credits/BP
  • Tier 7 - 46000 - 255.6 credits/BP
  • Tier 8 - 54000 - 263.4 credits/BP
  • Tier 9 - 100000 - 434.8 credits/BP
  • Tier 10 - 147000 - 544.4 credits/BP
  • Tier 11 - 250000 - 806.4 credits/BP
  • Tier 12 - 340000 - 971.4 credits/BP
  • Tier 13 - 500000 - 1250 credits/BP
  • Tier 14 - 770000 - 1711.1 credits/BP
  • Tier 15 - 1130000 - 2260 credits/BP
  • Tier 16 - 1780000 - 2966.7 credits/BP
  • Tier 17 - 2600000 - 3714.3 credits/BP
  • Tier
...

I am stealing this!


Starfinder Superscriber
The Mad Comrade wrote:

The group can have an entire fleet if the GM is willing to roll with it. There doesn't have to be a fixed numerical structure to make it work. As in S&S if they are able to capture and crew additional vessels, they organically grow their fleet.

Unlike in S&S, however, by RAW they cannot easily coordinate their fleet via Drift travel.

Otherwise, S&S isn't a bad way to ad-hoc a fleet campaign with more reliable numbers to drive this element of a campaign. Ships they capture/defeat (that don't explode) can be cannibalized for parts for 1/10th the captured hull's value. If a ship is effectively a wreck instead of a shattered sphere of super-heated incandescent plasma, 1/100th hull value, making small wrecks not worth the effort to scrap, although looting the frozen corpses of the crew may be a source of pocket change.

So I hastily built a bare bones Transport Ship that came out to 48 BP.

So if: (just randomly picking a number here)
BP= 1,000cr Cost:48,000. Resale Value (10%) 4,800cr
That seems very low around character level 6+ especially once you divide it by 4 players.

And you could even make the resale value lower (cost of repairs, it may be illegal has "Heat" on it, ext)
and bigger ships/more valuable are going to be even more dangerous to disable and not to mention every single ship has that nifty "Self Destruct" feature to prevent the Capital Fleet from falling into the wrong hands.

Thoughts?

Sovereign Court

I remember one of the devs stating that they should be separate, but that if you desperately need it, he suggested 7,500 credits per BP. Nothing official though.


Kelvorn wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:

The group can have an entire fleet if the GM is willing to roll with it. There doesn't have to be a fixed numerical structure to make it work. As in S&S if they are able to capture and crew additional vessels, they organically grow their fleet.

Unlike in S&S, however, by RAW they cannot easily coordinate their fleet via Drift travel.

Otherwise, S&S isn't a bad way to ad-hoc a fleet campaign with more reliable numbers to drive this element of a campaign. Ships they capture/defeat (that don't explode) can be cannibalized for parts for 1/10th the captured hull's value. If a ship is effectively a wreck instead of a shattered sphere of super-heated incandescent plasma, 1/100th hull value, making small wrecks not worth the effort to scrap, although looting the frozen corpses of the crew may be a source of pocket change.

So I hastily built a bare bones Transport Ship that came out to 48 BP.

So if: (just randomly picking a number here)
BP= 1,000cr Cost:48,000. Resale Value (10%) 4,800cr
That seems very low around character level 6+ especially once you divide it by 4 players.

And you could even make the resale value lower (cost of repairs, it may be illegal has "Heat" on it, ext)
and bigger ships/more valuable are going to be even more dangerous to disable and not to mention every single ship has that nifty "Self Destruct" feature to prevent the Capital Fleet from falling into the wrong hands.

Thoughts?

That's less than a tier-1 ship. Most of its value comes from the cargo and/or passengers it was transporting, not the ship itself.


Consider this.

A Light laser Cannon is available at APL 1 for 2 build points. It's damage is roughly equal to a level 20 heavy weapon laser worth 700k+.

Adding an Alarm to the computer of a tier 1 ship is 1 BP but adding it to a regular computer is only 10 credits.

Build points were never meant to convert to credits.


One whole Schmeckle


The Mad Comrade wrote:

Salvaging activities during "Downtime" are subsumed in the automatic acquisition of additional BPs as the party improves their APL.

Alternatively, so long as the ship encounters are fair, the group's starship APL/tier may increase in bumps at a GM's discretion as appropriate to a given story.

Example: Initial acquisition may be a tier 5 ship for an APL 4 group. However, it may be 3 levels before they acquire another bump in BPs and sufficient downtime to apply the new BPs to their beloved tramp freighter cum blockade runner.

Though if the GM does this, they'd better remember to keep the ship encounters fixed across those three levels. A level 6 party in a level 5 ship is still balanced for fighting level 5 ship encounters, not level 6 ones.

That said, something I haven't see anybody mention: ship encounters are still encounters, which means they are still subject to the "average wealth per encounter" rules. If you win a ship fight and salvage the wreckage, or board and loot it, you probably should still get treasure. Just, treasure based on the fact that you won a CR 6 encounter, or whatnot.


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I love the chart above from @Porridge, and I think when you consider the economics of 'normal' Pact World peoples the prices in the chart make sense. A Tier 1/2 starship costs 2,300 credits, while a 'regular joe' lvl 5 space miner npc would make something along the lines of...

(5 Profession ranks + 3 trained class skill + 3 ability = 11, take 10 for 21, double for wage roll = 42 credits/week)

... 2,184 credits a year. Someone scrimping and saving still won't be able to afford that new car starship in a year due to living expenses, but with a Abadarcorp loan or saving for a few years they can.

My stumbling block on using the Porridge WBL chart is how it lines up next to the seemingly random costs (and level reqs) of other equipment. A Tier 1/2 fighter (such as the Necroglider from the CRB) by the chart costs 2,300 credits - seemingly a fitting amount considering they could be mass produced and appear to be a TIE Fighter equivalent when it comes to appearing in the AP.

A Tactical Knife (which is a level 6 basic melee weapon) costs 6,000 credits. That means a knife without any magic properties but is nicely made (what happened to masterwork?) costs more than two TIEs Necrogliders. And this isn't even restricted to whether we use the Porridge WBL chart. That knife is also worth slightly less (200 credits) than a full Police Cruiser (lvl 4) vehicle.

Just writing up this post has me reconsidering how to price items on the core weapon/equipment lists because some of them simply make no sense beyond artificial balancing decisions.


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MagicA wrote:
One whole Schmeckle

Which is equivalent to, if I've got my conversion figures here right, about 15 and a half brapples.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game, Class Deck, Maps, Modules, Pawns, Roleplaying Game, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Deluxe Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Legends Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Kelvorn wrote:

Yah I do see the problem that is presented here. But on the flip side it would be nice to have actual prices for Ships that can be earned and bought. I was thinking sell prices would be lower due to the fact that these are stolen/refurbished vehicles.

I am not crazy about a Ship growing in power as the party does. I think Ships should be a place to sink Credits into. Give those space pirates a reason to risk it all for that big Heist or why the Mercenary band takes on that dangerous escort mission.

We haven't run Starfinder yet (first game this Wednesday). However, my plan is to track the two WBLs separately. They are starting at level one with one thousand credits each, a ship worth 50BP (that I've designed for them) and 5BP they can spend on whatever upgrades/refits they like - their ship going up a tier when they reach the thresholds on page 294.

As they adventure, they will find loot worth roughly 1000cr x #of players and 20BPs by the time they reach second level. Sometimes that will be plundered parts, sometimes cargo and sometimes whole ships they fly somewhere dodgy and sell - how they earn it will be up to them and the kind of group they want to be.

It means their ship will generally be a little better than expected (they could potentially have a tier one ship "worth" 70ish BPs just before reaching level two), but I can always slow down the rate of gaining BPs if that becomes an issue.

EDIT: Conceptually, I prefer the idea that ships are phenomenally expensive and only produced by the staggeringly powerful factions of the setting (like a hundred thousand credits per BP to build but with a very limited market of buyers). As such, the "silo" approach of two entirely separate WBL tracks suits me down to the ground. I think if I wanted to have a direct exchange rate, then I'd run the game differently (and make them dirt cheap).

Grand Lodge

fast make a fleet and grab more ships we could build a empire!!!!


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
HeftyUpTop wrote:

I love the chart above from @Porridge, and I think when you consider the economics of 'normal' Pact World peoples the prices in the chart make sense. A Tier 1/2 starship costs 2,300 credits, while a 'regular joe' lvl 5 space miner npc would make something along the lines of...

(5 Profession ranks + 3 trained class skill + 3 ability = 11, take 10 for 21, double for wage roll = 42 credits/week)

... 2,184 credits a year. Someone scrimping and saving still won't be able to afford that new car starship in a year due to living expenses, but with a Abadarcorp loan or saving for a few years they can.

My stumbling block on using the Porridge WBL chart is how it lines up next to the seemingly random costs (and level reqs) of other equipment. A Tier 1/2 fighter (such as the Necroglider from the CRB) by the chart costs 2,300 credits - seemingly a fitting amount considering they could be mass produced and appear to be a TIE Fighter equivalent when it comes to appearing in the AP.

A Tactical Knife (which is a level 6 basic melee weapon) costs 6,000 credits. That means a knife without any magic properties but is nicely made (what happened to masterwork?) costs more than two TIEs Necrogliders. And this isn't even restricted to whether we use the Porridge WBL chart. That knife is also worth slightly less (200 credits) than a full Police Cruiser (lvl 4) vehicle.

Just writing up this post has me reconsidering how to price items on the core weapon/equipment lists because some of them simply make no sense beyond artificial balancing decisions.

Yeah, that's definitely the con of the WBL approach. It seems to work pretty well game balance-wise, but it's a bit jarring to compare the (relatively low) credit cost of low-tier ships on this approach to the (extremely high) credit cost of high-tier weapons.

Of course, that might have less to do with this way of pricing ships, and more to do with Starfinder's scaling prices for objects in general (and the potential suspension of disbelief issues it gives rise to). E.g., when an Advanced Baton costs 540,000 credits and an Urban Cruiser costs 2,210, it starts to become clear that it'll be hard to map these prices onto anything we're familiar with in the real world.


Or it just means that the Advanced Baton really is the gold-plated adamantium ( with enchanted mithril battery ) option amongst melee weapons. We are talking about a setting with both magic and superhuman skill, after all, which means the quality scale goes way way up. Urban Cruiser is cheap because it doesn't do much, by contrast, and most benefits from futuristic techno-magic in terms of "made more cost-effective".


Metaphysician wrote:
by gaming the system.

Gaming the system feels a bit strong a term to use when 'Sell this thing I own' is a pretty logical thing and something that would...actually do in-universe. Ships have to be, in-universe, purchasable even if they can't be gameplay-wise purchased.


Yes, and its also a logical in-universe thing for ships to not be available to level 1 characters with limited financial resources. The bending goes both ways. If you want to be able to sell ships for cash, your going to be playing in a game where you won't have a ship to sell anyway.

Starfinder, by contrast, bends over backwards to provide a way for PCs to have a ship, because its writers judged that "ships are cool" is more important than strict realism. The mandatory tradeoff being "you can't sell them for cash". You can sell them, sure, but the proceeds are abstracted into the shipbuilding system.


I dunno, other games have managed to have both personal wealth AND ships within the economy system. Rogue Trader, for example or Traveller (Where they have an entire system set up to allow you to have staggering expensive ships without warping the system via Ship Shares)


I wouldn't say Rogue Trader is a good example of personal and starship economy. You didn't track individual Thrones in that game, you just had an abstract Profit Factor that you'd roll against if you wanted to buy anything. Selling a ship or a box of bolters isn't something that would affect your PF generally speaking and therefore there's no concern about the party suddenly gaining their own personal Riptides and then just hiring out Chartists/other Traders to bring them everywhere.


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Metaphysician wrote:

Yes, and its also a logical in-universe thing for ships to not be available to level 1 characters with limited financial resources. The bending goes both ways. If you want to be able to sell ships for cash, your going to be playing in a game where you won't have a ship to sell anyway.

That... doesn't follow at all. The ship/economy divide is just like the ilevel divide- something completely artificial that zero people in the starfinder universe interact with at all. There are tens of thousands of starships running around, and blasting and scavenging onto a pirate ship and taking off with it isn't the kind of story (among many, many others) that should be off limits because PCs start out with a 1K budget.

Personal/Scavenged/Stolen ships are a huge part of the genre, even for inexperienced characters. Heck, even loans/debts (gasp) are part and parcel of this. It's just another area of genre emulation where Starfinder not only drops the ball, but specifically drives out and buries it in the desert somewhere.

SF doesn't 'bend over backwards' to provide a ship, it just passes one out to every group, with a very long list of ways you aren't allowed to interact with it or other parts of the universe.


Why not make salvaging starships simple and realistic?

You get a modest recovery fee, say a few hundred credits per tier. Why, because the ship is owned by the bank. Even pirate ships, most of them were captured or stolen. Any equity gets swallowed up by legal fees and repairs.


I think it would have likely have worked a tad better to have personal items scale with the user and THEN give the spaceships a price. So you can get your laser cannon pretty fast (Though fusions can add to the cost as you level up).

As it runs into my biggest issue with Starfinder right now, the item treadmill that isn't particularly even. Weapons make large jumps every 5ish levels but since they don't jump at the same levels you'll often find 'Well, I should really swap to a different weapon type as it's going to be a couple of levels till it upgrades up to par'.

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