Ysoki art bothers me

[swoosh]

Their weird proportions (giant heads, exceptionally thin limbs compared to their torso) make them look really odd in a way that I find makes them feel out of sync with the rest of the game's aesthetic.

Contrast with ratfolk art from Pathfinder and they sort of look like super-deformed caricatures you might find in cartoons.

Sorta bummed this is how they're supposed to look, might just be me though.

[Patryn-]

They mystic star shaman on page 91 looks better than the Ysoki art in their racial entry on page 54 in my opinion. They apparently evolved on multiple planets so you could customize the appearance a bit if your group is okay with it.

[GeneticDrift]

I love how every ysoki looks different. I'm more concerned about the mass beard extinction that happens in the future.

Only the dwarf and gnome seem to have them.

[Trystram]

Everyone just gets laser hair removal after puberty now... :P

[Shinigami02]

The Vesk have beards too. They're just spike beards rather than hair beards, because the race doesn't grow hair.

[swoosh]

GeneticDrift wrote:

I love how every ysoki looks different

There's some variety. But there seems to be a serious case of heads the size of their torso and extremely stubby, stickish limbs. You can see it most gratuitously on their racial page in the CRB.

[Slyme]

Ysoki are my favorite example of what I like to call the Liefeld Effect. One picture in particular personifies this, IMHO...

Check this dude out

[Patrick Newcarry]

Indeed. I too was a little... "off-kilter" when I saw the ysoki's artistic representation.

[bookrat]

Slyme wrote:

Ysoki are my favorite example of what I like to call the Liefeld Effect. One picture in particular personifies this, IMHO...

Check this dude out

I always hated how he did that. Massive spine twisting.

[Slyme]

bookrat wrote:

Slyme wrote:

Ysoki are my favorite example of what I like to call the Liefeld Effect. One picture in particular personifies this, IMHO...

Check this dude out

I always hated how he did that. Massive spine twisting.

Super weird pose...check, tiny little feat...check, massive torso...check. Only thing missing is an excessive amount of pouches.

[QuidEst]

Slyme wrote:

bookrat wrote:

Slyme wrote:

Ysoki are my favorite example of what I like to call the Liefeld Effect. One picture in particular personifies this, IMHO...

Check this dude out

I always hated how he did that. Massive spine twisting.

Super weird pose...check, tiny little feat...check, massive torso...check. Only thing missing is an excessive amount of pouches.

Racial feature.

[Slyme]

QuidEst wrote:

Slyme wrote:

bookrat wrote:

Slyme wrote:

Ysoki are my favorite example of what I like to call the Liefeld Effect. One picture in particular personifies this, IMHO...

Check this dude out

I always hated how he did that. Massive spine twisting.

Super weird pose...check, tiny little feat...check, massive torso...check. Only thing missing is an excessive amount of pouches.

Racial feature.

lol...hadn't though of it like that.

[Noven]

My Ysoki are chubby big rats. None of this crap that they have going on now.

[bookrat]

Slyme wrote:

bookrat wrote:

Slyme wrote:

Ysoki are my favorite example of what I like to call the Liefeld Effect. One picture in particular personifies this, IMHO...

Check this dude out

I always hated how he did that. Massive spine twisting.

Super weird pose...check, tiny little feat...check, massive torso...check. Only thing missing is an excessive amount of pouches.

Both the butt and the chest facing the camera? Check.

[Butch A.]

I think they are the most inconsistently depicted race. Sometimes they look positively cartoonish, other times they seem relatively physically plausible. I'm not sure if I want to retcon that in my own personal head-canon as massive physical variability within the species, or just shrug it off and pick the one I like.

[Rothlis]

bookrat wrote:

Slyme wrote:

bookrat wrote:

Slyme wrote:

Ysoki are my favorite example of what I like to call the Liefeld Effect. One picture in particular personifies this, IMHO...

Check this dude out

I always hated how he did that. Massive spine twisting.

Super weird pose...check, tiny little feat...check, massive torso...check. Only thing missing is an excessive amount of pouches.

Both the butt and the chest facing the camera? Check.

That link shows the rat guy in a waist poviot with a head turn with its right leg at though you jist insulted it mid stride im a 260 poumd man and can easily replicate that pose no problem it does look funky because the ysoki's head is huge also keep i mind its modeled off a mouse or rat and i casr you are unaware anywhere a rat/mouse's head fits the rest can fit too

[Slyme]

Rothlis wrote:

bookrat wrote:

Slyme wrote:

bookrat wrote:

Slyme wrote:

Ysoki are my favorite example of what I like to call the Liefeld Effect. One picture in particular personifies this, IMHO...

Check this dude out

I always hated how he did that. Massive spine twisting.

Super weird pose...check, tiny little feat...check, massive torso...check. Only thing missing is an excessive amount of pouches.

Both the butt and the chest facing the camera? Check.

That link shows the rat guy in a waist poviot with a head turn with its right leg at though you jist insulted it mid stride im a 260 poumd man and can easily replicate that pose no problem it does look funky because the ysoki's head is huge also keep i mind its modeled off a mouse or rat and i casr you are unaware anywhere a rat/mouse's head fits the rest can fit too

It is the Ysoki equivalent of this pic, IMHO. The proportions are all wrong...his chest is deeper than it is wide...his right shoulder is too far back, his extremities are too small, etc.

[Rothlis]

Slyme wrote:

Rothlis wrote:

bookrat wrote:

Slyme wrote:

bookrat wrote:

Slyme wrote:

Ysoki are my favorite example of what I like to call the Liefeld Effect. One picture in particular personifies this, IMHO...

Check this dude out

I always hated how he did that. Massive spine twisting.

Super weird pose...check, tiny little feat...check, massive torso...check. Only thing missing is an excessive amount of pouches.

Both the butt and the chest facing the camera? Check.

That link shows the rat guy in a waist poviot with a head turn with its right leg at though you jist insulted it mid stride im a 260 poumd man and can easily replicate that pose no problem it does look funky because the ysoki's head is huge also keep i mind its modeled off a mouse or rat and i casr you are unaware anywhere a rat/mouse's head fits the rest can fit too

It is the Ysoki equivalent of this pic, IMHO. The proportions are all wrong...his chest is deeper than it is wide...his right shoulder is too far back, his extremities are too small, etc.

Lol that cap pic looks like a middle or high schooler did it its chest does look too deep but look at the yskoi pic again you only see the left side of its chest one pec and all of the left sides obliques its limbs do look small but again go look at the limbs of a mouse or rat you dont get to see its right shoulder that joint is its elbow

[BigNorseWolf]

Slyme wrote:

Ysoki are my favorite example of what I like to call the Liefeld Effect. One picture in particular personifies this, IMHO...

Check this dude out

When captain america's drawn by rob liefeld

You know his giant...chests .... are real!

It's like he's seen a person maybe one or two
Feet make a normal person seem like a kangaroos

when captain america's drawn by rob liefeld...

[swoosh]

Slyme wrote:

It is the Ysoki equivalent of this pic, IMHO. The proportions are all wrong...his chest is deeper than it is wide...his right shoulder is too far back, his extremities are too small, etc.

His head is literally as big as his torso. Maybe even bigger if that chest piece his wearing has any sort of depth to it.

Rothlis wrote:

its limbs do look small but again go look at the limbs of a mouse or rat

I don't think that's really a compelling argument here. Yes, real rats have a different bone structure, but real rats aren't bipedal space explorers, so I'm not sure there's really much merit in making that comparison. Just look at the Vesk to contrast. Or Pathfinder's depiction of ratfolk instead.

Of course even if you did want to base their proportions entirely on real rats for some reason, their heads, torso and limbs are still proportioned weirdly.

Quote:

you dont get to see its right shoulder that joint is its elbow

Yeah, you can't see the shoulder, but follow the upper arm back to where the shoulder would be.

[BigNorseWolf]

The ratfolk on the cover to the paper pawns box (i think thats the mystic... yellow cloak, holy symbol of desna?) is absolutely adorable. Almost makes me willint to use a paper mini.

almost.

[Squeakmaan]

I don't know, I've seen a lot of mice. They are pretty disproportionate looking to me.

[Rothlis]

swoosh wrote:

Slyme wrote:

It is the Ysoki equivalent of this pic, IMHO. The proportions are all wrong...his chest is deeper than it is wide...his right shoulder is too far back, his extremities are too small, etc.

His head is literally as big as his torso. Maybe even bigger if that chest piece his wearing has any sort of depth to it.

Rothlis wrote:

its limbs do look small but again go look at the limbs of a mouse or rat

I don't think that's really a compelling argument here. Yes, real rats have a different bone structure, but real rats aren't bipedal space explorers, so I'm not sure there's really much merit in making that comparison. Just look at the Vesk to contrast. Or Pathfinder's depiction of ratfolk instead.

Of course even if you did want to base their proportions entirely on real rats for some reason, their heads, torso and limbs are still proportioned weirdly.

Quote:

you dont get to see its right shoulder that joint is its elbow

Yeah, you can't see the shoulder, but follow the upper arm back to where the shoulder would be.

A mouse/rat's skull has a larger diameter than its ribcage i think thats what they were going for

The shoulder issue would place it too far forward there are issues with the picture but im of the opinion that many people are exaggerating it

I think the comparison to rats and mice is spot on from the elbow or knee down their legs are pretty much sticks mainly just tendons miniscule muscles and bone i think attempting to apply humanoid proportions to an alien is silly

Vesk are obviously of the theropod type hip joint like a raptor or t-rex not the komodo dragon hip type which will allow them to stand upright more like a birds hips less like a crocodiles

[captain yesterday]

You want an oversized head, take a peak at the halfling in the 5th edition player's handbook.

[Slyme]

There is no consistency from image to image, artist to artist with the Ysoki art...some of them draw them with teeny little stick limbs, some with essentially human proportions and more human hands and feet.

This one for example looks basically like a human with a mouse head.

Then you get this guy who is 50% head, 40% body, and 10% limbs (with more human looking hands and feet)

I'll just chalk it up to me not liking the art, and picture them the way I want in my games.

[captain yesterday]

I love how the augmented Ysoki look like they escaped Five Nights At Freddy's. :-)

[Rothlis]

Slyme wrote:

There is no consistency from image to image, artist to artist with the Ysoki art...some of them draw them with teeny little stick limbs, some with essentially human proportions and more human hands and feet.

This one for example looks basically like a human with a mouse head.

Then you get this guy who is 50% head, 40% body, and 10% limbs (with more human looking hands and feet)

I'll just chalk it up to me not liking the art, and picture them the way I want in my games.

Fair enough as DM/GM/SM that is your choice i am just going to go with what ever my player describes

[The Drunken Dragon]

I kinda preferred the "ysoki" art from Advanced Race Guide (back when they were the Golarion ratfolk) and probably just default to that.

[Jersey Burke]

"This is due partially to the wide variation in ysoki heredity, which makes ethnicity (and often even immediate family connections) almost impossible to determine by sight."

They seem more prone to diversity than most other races and species. Maybe even more than humans and dogs. One reason other races see rats here and mice there.

[Lord Gimblewight]

I've always found the creation of anthropomorphic races in fantasy & science fantasy settings...odd. With the possible exception of the uplifted races in Eclipse Phase (which make sense within the context of the game), I've never understood why fantasy games have needed to include humanoid animals. I've also found the selection of those animals to be included as races very haphazard. If one, why not all?

[UnArcaneElection]

^Also think of Kzin (from the Known Space series of Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle) and similar anthromorphic quasi-animal species from earlier science fiction (actually fairly numerous -- even Star Trek the Old Series had at least 1 example, the Gorn).

[Gryffe]

Lord Gimblewight wrote:

I've never understood why fantasy games have needed to include humanoid animals. I've also found the selection of those animals to be included as races very haphazard. If one, why not all?

Ah ! As a wannabe role-play author, I can answer this one ! There's a bunch of reasons and here they are in no particular order :

-Humans really are nothing more than anthropomorphized monkeys. And if that worked for us, well, why not sticking a pair of pants on a rabbit and call it a day ?

-You'll usually want to include some real world folklore into your game. Most of that real world folklore features creatures that are both anthropomorphized and sentient. From there, it's a small leap to make them playable as well. Kitsunes are creeping as a popular choice for that reason.

-Most people are boring and refuse to play anything that isn't human-ish enough (if not outright, then at least subconsciously. My game will include giant caterpillars and horse-sized, quadrupedal, dinosaur-ish dragons as two of the five playable races and I'm fully expecting them both to be the least popular choice for exactly that reason). Anthropomorphized animals fit a nice niche on the "overdone elves to akward starfish aliens" scale.

-"If one, why not all?" I think there's a misunderstanding here. Most of the time, when an anthropomorphized species is included, it's not a bunch of normal animals transformed by the flick of a wand, but an entirely new species that evolved in lieu of, or parallel to their feral counterpart. So, if one is to create 30 different anthropomorphized animals, you have to come up with 30 different origin stories, 30 different typical culture and 30 different racial tendencies. Even if you were to deliver that much content while maintaining a high-enough quality in a sustenable timeframe, your players would be bored to death before they even read half of the stuff presented to them.

-FURRIIIIIIEEEEES ! I mean, you can find Starfinder's lead concept artist on furaffinity. Can't handwave the influence of the lobby on the media.

[BigNorseWolf]

Gryffe wrote:

-FURRIIIIIIEEEEES ! I mean, you can find...

But how did YOU find it there....:)

[Jersey Burke]

Having terran based sentient animal species is odd but having a plethora of human based races with a few relatively slight differences is
'normal'?

Mankind has done art and stories about anthropomorphed animals from day one. They're great for reflections on ourselves without actually using humans and they make story telling fun and, well, different.

If Star Trek and Star Wars can have such huge numbers of obviously anthro animals as sentient races, so can Starfinder.

By the way, Starfarer's Companion also features Catfolk, Grippli, Kitsune, Kobold, Nagaji, Tengu and Vanara. I'm still waiting for the Giant Space Hamster race.

[baggageboy]

Go for the eyes Boo!

[Golurkcanfly]

Since it's more sci-fi, why not:

"Go for the optics, Chiktikka!"

[Tim Statler]

Jersey Burke wrote:

I'm still waiting for the Giant Space Hamster race.

That is just another offshoot of Yoski.

[Ravingdork]

Personally, I prefer my own ysoki art to that shown in the book.

[Alexander Augunas]

Jersey Burke wrote:

By the way, Starfarer's Companion also features Catfolk, Grippli, Kitsune, Kobold, Nagaji, Tengu and Vanara. I'm still waiting for the Giant Space Hamster race.

Noted.

[Miniature Giant Space Hamster]

Jersey Burke wrote:

I'm still waiting for the Giant Space Hamster race.

You rang?

Oh, wait, you're looking for my cousin.

[UnArcaneElection]

Gryffe wrote:

Lord Gimblewight wrote:

I've never understood why fantasy games have needed to include humanoid animals. I've also found the selection of those animals to be included as races very haphazard. If one, why not all?

Ah ! As a wannabe role-play author, I can answer this one ! There's a bunch of reasons and here they are in no particular order :

-Humans really are nothing more than anthropomorphized monkeys. And if that worked for us, well, why not sticking a pair of pants on a rabbit and call it a day ?
{. . .}

Minor nit: We are actually anthropormophized apes, not monkeys.

[bookrat]

How are we anthropomorphized apes, when we are actual apes?

[GeneticDrift]

baggageboy wrote:

Go for the eyes Boo!

Now i want to make a ysoki named Boo....who talks about eyes alot....maybe a medic

[UnArcaneElection]

bookrat wrote:

How are we anthropomorphized apes, when we are actual apes?

Let me rephrase: We are actual apes, with the Anthropomorphization mutations applied.

Also, if we are anthropomorphized monkeys, where's my prehensile tail? I needed that last week to hold the soldering iron while trying to connect a wire with the soldering lug for which no connectors are available. Some of our electronic equipment must have been designed by aliens or fiends . . . .

[bookrat]

UnArcaneElection wrote:

bookrat wrote:

How are we anthropomorphized apes, when we are actual apes?

Let me rephrase: We are actual apes, with the Anthropomorphization mutations applied.

Also, if we are anthropomorphized monkeys, where's my prehensile tail?

I guess that depends on if we're talking new world or old world monkeys. ;)

[Dominar Rygel XVI]

GeneticDrift wrote:

baggageboy wrote:

Go for the eyes Boo!

Now i want to make a ysoki named Boo....who talks about eyes alot....maybe a medic

Boo is a fine nickname, but name him Hannibal Chew (James Hong vocal impression optional).

[baggageboy]

Boo was a miniature giant space hamster with debatable taste in his owner. I honor his memory :)

[Slyme]

Now I want to see a Ysoki Engineer who names his drone Minsc :)

[Tim Statler]

Miniature Giant Space Hamster wrote:

Jersey Burke wrote:

I'm still waiting for the Giant Space Hamster race.

You rang?

Oh, wait, you're looking for my cousin.

Yeah. We are looking for the Giant Miniature space Hamster.

[Jaxom Faux]

Tim Statler wrote:

Miniature Giant Space Hamster wrote:

Jersey Burke wrote:

I'm still waiting for the Giant Space Hamster race.

You rang?

Oh, wait, you're looking for my cousin.

Yeah. We are looking for the Giant Miniature space Hamster.

I hate ratfolk so I'd already decided in my world they were space hamsters :D