Need something like Magical Knack, but a tad better


Advice

Shadow Lodge

For us multiclass mutts, Magical Knack is a great trait granting +2 caster level in a spellcasting class of our choice.

-- What I'm looking for is something similar which enables us to actually count as an XYZ of +2 level for relatively minor purposes (clerical domain powers, for example, usually reference class level rather than caster level).

Anything out there? (item/feat/trait...doesn't matter)


Kind of the opposite of what you're asking for, but there's Eclectic and Esoteric Training out of Inner Sea Magic that allow you to actually increase your Spellcasting *ability* (up to your character level.)

But, they're two of the most powerful abilities that Paizo has printed, especially because they're literally free as-written.

Our group converted them to feats.


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These tend to be terribly specific. A robe of arcane heritage for a sorcerer's bloodline powers for example. A hollywreath band for domain powers of the plant domain. Is it domain powers (of the darkness domain from your post in another thread, IIRC) exactly that you're after? The Beacon of Faith trait is the only thing I can think of for that.


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There is this half-elf alternative racial trait from Horror Adventures:

Quote:
Multidisciplined: Born to two races, half-elves have a knack for combining different magical traditions. If a half-elf with this racial trait has spellcasting abilities from at least two different classes, the effects of spells she casts from all her classes are calculated as though her caster level were 1 level higher, to a maximum of her character level. This racial trait replaces multitalented.

Edit: Oh whoops, I just read that again. My bad, but might be relevant if you wanted it!

Shadow Lodge

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Gulthor wrote:

Kind of the opposite of what you're asking for, but there's Eclectic and Esoteric Training out of Inner Sea Magic that allow you to actually increase your Spellcasting *ability* (up to your character level.)

But, they're two of the most powerful abilities that Paizo has printed, especially because they're literally free as-written.

I'm kinda certain that those two don't work in the manner you're thinking....
Quote:

Eclectic Training (5 Fame): Guilds often require members to master and train in different subjects. When your Fame score in a guild reaches 5, choose one spellcasting class you have at least 1 level in—you increase your effective caster level in that class (including the number of spells you know and can cast per day) by +1, to a maximum caster level equal to your total Hit Dice. Single-classed spellcasters should still pick a class to which this bonus applies, since this bonus is retroactive

Esoteric Training (35 Fame): The bonus to caster level you gain from Eclectic Training increases to +3 (but is still limited by your total Hit Dice). You may select a second spellcasting class to gain a +1 bonus to effective caster level

The problem is the obtuse and confusing passage that I've bold-faced. -- As far as I know, there are no spellcasting classes that grant additional spells known or uses per day on the basis of caster (rather than class) level. So, it should be errata'd.

For example, a fighter3/cleric2 with all of (Magical Knack + Eclectic Training + Esoteric Training) would have a caster level of 5. -- But he's still a 2nd-level cleric; he doesn't receive 2nd- or 3rd-level spells. Getting d8+5 CLW and +2 Divine Favors is cool, but it's hardly "powerful" at the cost of three traits & feats.


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Sir Thugsalot wrote:

For us multiclass mutts, Magical Knack is a great trait granting +2 caster level in a spellcasting class of our choice.

-- What I'm looking for is something similar which enables us to actually count as an XYZ of +2 level for relatively minor purposes (clerical domain powers, for example, usually reference class level rather than caster level).

Anything out there? (item/feat/trait...doesn't matter)

As I understand the question, you want full progression on a specific class feature, without spending all levels on the class.

Found some feats for that. I will sort by class feature, add the effective level boost in brackets and mark with a * if the boost is capped by character level:

Animal companion
* Boon Companion (4*)
* Huntmaster (1)

Favored enemy
* Shapeshifting Hunter (+ druid levels)

Judgment
* Judgment Surge (3, 1/day, not capped by character level)

Wildshape
* Shaping Focus (4*)
* Shapeshifting Hunter (+ ranger levels, only for uses per day)

Bloodline power / eidolon evolutions / one revelation / phantom abilities / spirit animal / witch's familiar
* Magical Enigma (1, doesn't grant higher level powers)

Alchemist discoveries / arcane discoveries / arcanist exploits / magus arcana
* Supernatural Spy (2, story needs to be completed, doesn't grant higher level powers)

There are a bazillion very specific caster level boosts, so I'd rather list them only on demand.

Shadow Lodge

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Quick example:

Quote:

Community Domain

Granted Powers: Your touch can heal wounds, and your presence instills unity and strengthens emotional bonds.

Calming Touch (Sp): You can touch a creature as a standard action to heal it of 1d6 points of nonlethal damage + 1 point per cleric level.

Magical Knack will increase a fighter2/cleric1's CLW to d8+3, but his Calming Touch appears to be stuck at +1 due to hard "cleric level" phrasing.


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See above: the beacon of fate trait.

Shadow Lodge

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Quote:

Beacon of Faith

You wield the might of your faith with power and clarity.

Benefit: Once per day as a free action, you may treat your caster level as if it were 2 levels higher when using one of the granted powers of your domain or inquisition, or when casting one of your domain spells.

Specifies caster level not class level, so if the domain text says "cleric level", then by RAW you can't apply the benefit.

(Beacon of Faith is an OK deal for a straight caster who pegs it to his top-drawer spell to lob it at +2 beyond character level. E.g. a 5th-level Sun domain cleric firing a 4d8 Searing Light (1d8 stronger than normal) out his 3rd-level domain slot. For any other use, it's a much crappier form of Magical Knack, although I suppose Inquisition-users could get more mileage out of it.)


Sir Thugsalot wrote:
Gulthor wrote:

Kind of the opposite of what you're asking for, but there's Eclectic and Esoteric Training out of Inner Sea Magic that allow you to actually increase your Spellcasting *ability* (up to your character level.)

But, they're two of the most powerful abilities that Paizo has printed, especially because they're literally free as-written.

I'm kinda certain that those two don't work in the manner you're thinking....
Quote:

Eclectic Training (5 Fame): Guilds often require members to master and train in different subjects. When your Fame score in a guild reaches 5, choose one spellcasting class you have at least 1 level in—you increase your effective caster level in that class (including the number of spells you know and can cast per day) by +1, to a maximum caster level equal to your total Hit Dice. Single-classed spellcasters should still pick a class to which this bonus applies, since this bonus is retroactive

Esoteric Training (35 Fame): The bonus to caster level you gain from Eclectic Training increases to +3 (but is still limited by your total Hit Dice). You may select a second spellcasting class to gain a +1 bonus to effective caster level

The problem is the obtuse and confusing passage that I've bold-faced. -- As far as I know, there are no spellcasting classes that grant additional spells known or uses per day on the basis of caster (rather than class) level. So, it should be errata'd.

For example, a fighter3/cleric2 with all of (Magical Knack + Eclectic Training + Esoteric Training) would have a caster level of 5. -- But he's still a 2nd-level cleric; he doesn't receive 2nd- or 3rd-level spells. Getting d8+5 CLW and +2 Divine Favors is cool, but it's hardly "powerful" at the cost of three traits & feats.

It's the same language used by Prestige Classes that advance Spellcasting - the part you bolded is precisely what makes the abilities way too strong. (It's a 64-page campaign setting book; they're notorious for being poorly edited and basically never get errata. No GM worth their salt is going to actually allow Eclectic and Esoteric Training as written.)

With Esoteric Training, a Fighter 3/Cleric 2 *would* have the Spellcasting ability of a 5th level cleric (but would *not* advance the cleric's class features in any way.)

Hence me saying that it's the opposite end of what you're looking for.

Shadow Lodge

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But the Eclectic/Esoteric's wording is not plainly something like: "...choose one spellcasting class you have at least 1 level in—you are effectively +n in that class regards spellcasting (meaning you could potentially cast higher-level spells)...etc.

I can see a lot of (most? all?) GMs looking very squinty-sideways at players attempting to pull off +3 cleric spellcasting with this (losing out on essentially nothing except Channel advancement).


Pretty sure there's a reason that the specific option you're looking for isn't anywhere in 1st party Paizo, because they want to discourage people from trying to cheese their way out of the drawbacks of multiclassing.


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Sir Thugsalot wrote:
Quote:

Beacon of Faith

You wield the might of your faith with power and clarity.

Benefit: Once per day as a free action, you may treat your caster level as if it were 2 levels higher when using one of the granted powers of your domain or inquisition, or when casting one of your domain spells.

Specifies caster level not class level, so if the domain text says "cleric level", then by RAW you can't apply the benefit.

(Beacon of Faith is an OK deal for a straight caster who pegs it to his top-drawer spell to lob it at +2 beyond character level. E.g. a 5th-level Sun domain cleric firing a 4d8 Searing Light (1d8 stronger than normal) out his 3rd-level domain slot. For any other use, it's a much crappier form of Magical Knack, although I suppose Inquisition-users could get more mileage out of it.)

Since the wording calls out domain powers as gaining a benefit saying they don't seems a bit odd. Consider the possible scenarios:

A: Miswording, it's meant to mean caster level for the domain spells and cleric level for the domain powers.
B: It's a Trap! Domain powers get no benefit, haha!

Do you consider scenario B possible?

Shadow Lodge

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avr wrote:

Consider the possible scenarios:

A: Miswording, it's meant to mean caster level for the domain spells and cleric level for the domain powers.
B: It's a Trap! Domain powers get no benefit, haha!

Do you consider scenario B possible?

Choice A relies upon one's assumption of RAI, which, since we are not clairvoyant, therefore defaults (especially in the case of PFS) to RAW, which leads to <drumroll> ...B (because domain powers use "cleric level" wording, not caster level).

Queue the Ackbar.


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Possibly an alternate favored class option if you choose the correct race.


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Prestigious Spellcaster is the closest to what you're asking for, as far as I can tell.

As far as multiclass casting goes, I've always been a fan of specializing and utilizing metamagic to make the "weaker" spells of a lower level transform into monsters. Persistent Spell with a metamagic trait on a great spell is arguably stronger than a higher level spell by a significant degree. A Persistent Glitterdust with Wayang Spellhunter is a level 3 spell that will stomp on most opposition. A Persistent Hideous Laughter is a level 3 spell that will make tough targets cry a lot of the time. And you can always Heighten Spell to keep your specialization relevant. Combined with other DC/CL tricks like the Arcanist's Potent Magic or the Fey Bloodline, you can throw lower-level specialized spells that act like they're high-level+.

Silver Crusade

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Prestigious Spellcaster for Prestige multiclassing

Variant Multiclass otherwise.

Shadow Lodge

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Grey Warden wrote:

Prestigious Spellcaster for Prestige multiclassing

Variant Multiclass otherwise.

Prestigious Spellcaster runs counter to the purpose (not previously stated explicitly, but sort-of implied) of using cleric as the dip class, (although I imagine there are more options around 5th/6th when PrCs with skill rank requirements become kosher) as it'll then require a rank in a PrC as well.

Point of note: neither Prestigious Spellcaster or variant multiclassing are PFS legal.

Baba Ganoush wrote:
Possibly an alternate favored class option if you choose the correct race.
Well, none of the Base 7 do anything, although several tantalizingly tease:
Quote:
Cleric: Select one domain power granted at 1st level that is normally usable a number of times per day equal to 3 + the cleric’s Wisdom modifier. The cleric adds +1/2 to the number of uses per day of that domain power.

I.e. get more uses of a stuck-at-1st-level (because we dipped) domain power rather than bumping up the power of fewer uses.


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There are a fair number of Domain powers that don't care about level, and some good ones at that. Touch of Chaos or Gentle Rest delivered through Domain Strike or a Conductive weapon is very powerful.

Grand Lodge

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Loyalty is great if you're not progressing in class levels.

Shadow Lodge

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BadBird wrote:
There are a fair number of Domain powers that don't care about level, and some good ones at that.

Well, for those ones I wouldn't be fishing around for improvements! ;)


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There's not any. Domains are one of the class features that currently can't be increased outside of cleric levels except by a few prestige classes.

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