You can tie a martial's hands to prevent them from using their weapons but you could lock a caster a Houdini cage and they can still cast.
Is constantly damaging them they only way to prevent a caster from casting?
Do prisons put casters in shock collars?
Can law enforcement even contain casters at all?
In the Tactical Rules chapter, Actions in Combat section, it specifies that most spells, unless stated otherwise, leave you open to AoO's and if it hits you, you fail and lose the spell. This time around there's no calculating a concentration check based on the damage you took...you just lose the spell and fail.
Also, in the Magic and Spells chapter, Casting Spells section, it further states that if you take damage (not ongoing damage such as bleeding) or fail a save while casting, you fail and lose the spell. They also specifically state a foe can ready an action to target you when you begin to cast.
With ray guns and lasers and such being widely available, basically everyone now is a threat to casters.
As a DM, an antimagic cell would probably be your best bet.
As a DM, an antimagic cell would probably be your best bet.
Or a greased floor, a room with 10x a creature's normal gravity, any poison that needs saves, binding and gagging and blindfolding, not allowing them enough time to sleep/meditate/whatever.
In the Tactical Rules chapter, Actions in Combat section, it specifies that most spells, unless stated otherwise, leave you open to AoO's and if it hits you, you fail and lose the spell. This time around there's no calculating a concentration check based on the damage you took...you just lose the spell and fail.
Also, in the Magic and Spells chapter, Casting Spells section, it further states that if you take damage (not ongoing damage such as bleeding) or fail a save while casting, you fail and lose the spell. They also specifically state a foe can ready an action to target you when you begin to cast.
With ray guns and lasers and such being widely available, basically everyone now is a threat to casters.
Did you even read my post?
binding and gagging and blindfolding
Spells don't require components, that's part of the reason I asked. You can bind, gag, and blindfold a caster and they can still cast just fine.
Did you even read my post?In the Tactical Rules chapter, Actions in Combat section, it specifies that most spells, unless stated otherwise, leave you open to AoO's and if it hits you, you fail and lose the spell. This time around there's no calculating a concentration check based on the damage you took...you just lose the spell and fail.
Also, in the Magic and Spells chapter, Casting Spells section, it further states that if you take damage (not ongoing damage such as bleeding) or fail a save while casting, you fail and lose the spell. They also specifically state a foe can ready an action to target you when you begin to cast.
With ray guns and lasers and such being widely available, basically everyone now is a threat to casters.
Sure, that's why I also pointed out failing a save in my post! Glad to be of service!
Sure, that's why I also pointed out failing a save in my post! Glad to be of service!Did you even read my post?In the Tactical Rules chapter, Actions in Combat section, it specifies that most spells, unless stated otherwise, leave you open to AoO's and if it hits you, you fail and lose the spell. This time around there's no calculating a concentration check based on the damage you took...you just lose the spell and fail.
Also, in the Magic and Spells chapter, Casting Spells section, it further states that if you take damage (not ongoing damage such as bleeding) or fail a save while casting, you fail and lose the spell. They also specifically state a foe can ready an action to target you when you begin to cast.
With ray guns and lasers and such being widely available, basically everyone now is a threat to casters.
Then you clearly read another post as I'm clearly asking about out of combat situations.
For shamans: remote-control exploding collar
For technomancers: Knock them unconscious until they get to prison. Put the prison on an asteroid or in the Drift.
Casters with interplanetary teleport or plane shift may still be a challenge. Put a geas on them, or give them a temporary cyborg body that shuts down when it's not plugged in, or maybe just unleash the bounty hunters (with permission to kill) on anyone who escapes from prison.
That sadly doesn't help me. The PCs are going to start off as prisoners on a drow slave ship, the issue is not with them teleporting away, it's with them just charming one of the guards into letting them go and then blasting their way out of there.
We've already done some preliminary RP with the characters meeting and established that the guards are orcs, so I can't just replace them with droids immune to mind control either.
As a DM, an antimagic cell would probably be your best bet.
As the PCs are most likely going to just steal the ship, I'd rather not give them an OP prison cell on board.
@IonutRO There are plenty of situations where a save is necessary that isn't combat, such as the high gravity room I pointed out upthread, any extreme weather, a slippery floor that requires you to save or fall...there are lots of possibilities, which is why I didn't restrict my statement regarding saves to combat only.
Perhaps there are magic-suppressing serums that prisons administer to their more mystical prisoners.
Do spells still need line of effect? Guards could be behind glassteel Windows, using cameras and remote devices to control prisioners.
It is a different feel for a prison, but ut might work.
Alternatively, a shooking collar woth a remote activation. Give thw guards a panic button, they activate it and everybody in a radius take damage/lose concentration
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By RAW, spells require concentration. I imagine caster cells, cuffs etc... are equipped with things that make concentration difficult or impossible. Maybe they are fitted with a helmet that assaults them with debilitating audio and video, or they are drugged with a neural agent. Also, the nauseated condition makes spell casting impossible.
The cell has speakers that play Nickelback on repeat. Casting is not possible. Insanity is assured.
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I'm reminded of the Thorne Manacles in the Harry Dresden series. Cuffs that sense when magic is being gathered, and pokes the spellcaster, and they can't concentrated with spells. I could see a high tech version of that....
But yeah, that is a question I hadn't thought about.
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To actually get to what OP wants, no there isn't anything to prevent spellcasters from casting other than straight keeping them knocked unconscious 24/7. Maybe invest in heavy sedatives, or blindfolding them since they need line of sight for many spells.
Get a low-tier computer, hook it up to appropriate sensors, and include a control module remotely talking to something that deals unavoidable damage, like a shock collar.
In the Tactical Rules chapter, Actions in Combat section, it specifies that most spells, unless stated otherwise, leave you open to AoO's and if it hits you, you fail and lose the spell. This time around there's no calculating a concentration check based on the damage you took...you just lose the spell and fail.
Also, in the Magic and Spells chapter, Casting Spells section, it further states that if you take damage (not ongoing damage such as bleeding) or fail a save while casting, you fail and lose the spell. They also specifically state a foe can ready an action to target you when you begin to cast.
With ray guns and lasers and such being widely available, basically everyone now is a threat to casters.
It is worth noting that there will be rules arguments over readying an action to shoot a caster, because the entry on readied actions states that if the action is not purely defensive, it takes place after the triggering action is resolved.
The 1 reaction limit also means that step up will not prevent casters from taking a guarded step and then casting, since following them leaves you unable to make an AoO.
What are 'appropriate sensors?' I'm unclear on how a low tier computer is going to detect and decide 'yep, thats magic!'.
It is worth noting that there will be rules arguments over readying an action to shoot a caster, because the entry on readied actions states that if the action is not purely defensive, it takes place after the triggering action is resolved.
That seems to lack any possibility of a rules argument. You can shoot someone _for_ casting, but as written, you explicitly can't interrupt.
What are 'appropriate sensors?' I'm unclear on how a low tier computer is going to detect and decide 'yep, thats magic!'.
That seems to lack any possibility of a rules argument. You can shoot someone _for_ casting, but as written, you explicitly can't interrupt.
It is worth noting that there will be rules arguments over readying an action to shoot a caster, because the entry on readied actions states that if the action is not purely defensive, it takes place after the triggering action is resolved.
Yeah, that bit's a little fuzzy. Tier 0 is a cell phone, though, so I don't think you'd need too high of a tier to process enough visual information.
Future books will probably include a better solution.
What are 'appropriate sensors?' I'm unclear on how a low tier computer is going to detect and decide 'yep, thats magic!'.
That seems to lack any possibility of a rules argument. You can shoot someone _for_ casting, but as written, you explicitly can't interrupt.
It is worth noting that there will be rules arguments over readying an action to shoot a caster, because the entry on readied actions states that if the action is not purely defensive, it takes place after the triggering action is resolved.
The reason I expect arguments is that interrupting casting with an attack readied for when someone starts casting is listed as an example of damage interrupting a spell is most likely to happen, in a different chapter of the same book.
The reason I expect arguments is that interrupting casting with an attack readied for when someone starts casting is listed as an example of damage interrupting a spell is most likely to happen, in a different chapter of the same book.What are 'appropriate sensors?' I'm unclear on how a low tier computer is going to detect and decide 'yep, thats magic!'.
That seems to lack any possibility of a rules argument. You can shoot someone _for_ casting, but as written, you explicitly can't interrupt.
It is worth noting that there will be rules arguments over readying an action to shoot a caster, because the entry on readied actions states that if the action is not purely defensive, it takes place after the triggering action is resolved.
Yeah its a little contradictory in itself between the 2 places. I think that as written it only applies to trying to interrupt spells that have a casting time greater than 1 standard action.
Although even that does not seem to suggest you would get the attack off.Yeah its a little contradictory in itself between the 2 places. I think that as written it only applies to trying to interrupt spells that have a casting time greater than 1 standard action.The reason I expect arguments is that interrupting casting with an attack readied for when someone starts casting is listed as an example of damage interrupting a spell is most likely to happen, in a different chapter of the same book.What are 'appropriate sensors?' I'm unclear on how a low tier computer is going to detect and decide 'yep, thats magic!'.
That seems to lack any possibility of a rules argument. You can shoot someone _for_ casting, but as written, you explicitly can't interrupt.
It is worth noting that there will be rules arguments over readying an action to shoot a caster, because the entry on readied actions states that if the action is not purely defensive, it takes place after the triggering action is resolved.
I would rule it that way, myself, with the attack going after the spell, if you're still capable of taking it.
Potentially, it can be interpreted that if it takes you a full round to cast a spell, you begin to cast in 1 round and end that cast in another round. Arguably, the round ending resolves "I ready an action to shoot that caster in the face if he starts casting".
But there are lots of other ways available to shut down a spell caster since there's really no concentration check for damage or if you fail a save, so its a little different than PF in terms of tactics.
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If the trigger is "when they start casting", and the attack is after the trigger, the attack can still be before they finish casting, unless the casting time is really, really short.
And wouldn't the specific example of readying to interrupt casting take precedence over the general rule of readied action happening after trigger?
(Not going to get the rules for another week).
NOPE. Ready actions go AFTER the character performs their action. The ONLY actions that go before in Starfinder are defense actions, no attack actions.
Hence, you can't do that tactic anymore in Starfinder.
However, for spells that take a full round this would still apply.
Casting spells in extremely harsh environments cause the spell to fail (example, a earthquake)
So the answer is a tumble room.
xD
Imagine a room like a dryer, but a sphere, that can change randomly it's direction. Toss the caster in, and they can never cast again!
Also, you could just pin them to the wall with hurricane force wind.
But that's boring.
Some type of anti-magic grenade?
The device upon detonation disrupts all magic in a given area, up to a certain level; like all magic or magic items of level 4 and bellow are suppressed.
A caster who tries to cast must make an opposed check or lose the spell; and this must be done every time they try to cast as long as they remain in the field.
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Rereading page 331, it is pretty explicitly stated that you can ready an action to attack when the target begins casting and if successful it ruins the spell.
Huh, you're right. But here, a developer explicitly says you can't do that.
First, reactions resolve directly after the triggering action. So if you cast a spell and someone readied to shoot you if you cast, if the spell has a casting time of 1 standard action you get the spell off before the AoO gets made.
So which one is right?
Rereading page 331, it is pretty explicitly stated that you can ready an action to attack when the target begins casting and if successful it ruins the spell.Huh, you're right. But here, a developer explicitly says you can't do that.
First, reactions resolve directly after the triggering action. So if you cast a spell and someone readied to shoot you if you cast, if the spell has a casting time of 1 standard action you get the spell off before the AoO gets made.So which one is right?
I would think it is correct that you cannot use this tactic. The magic section strongly implies that you can. The tactics section flatly states that you cannot. The developer specifically states that you cannot. That tips the scale strongly against the tactic.
Having looked at this for a bit, I suspect that the change to readied actions was made for the purpose of preventing this tactic, with guns everywhere and no concentration checks.
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Rereading page 331, it is pretty explicitly stated that you can ready an action to attack when the target begins casting and if successful it ruins the spell.Huh, you're right. But here, a developer explicitly says you can't do that.
First, reactions resolve directly after the triggering action. So if you cast a spell and someone readied to shoot you if you cast, if the spell has a casting time of 1 standard action you get the spell off before the AoO gets made.So which one is right?I had not seen that. I am inclined to listen to the developer, of course, unless the rule is not fun. In which case I won't say it is "wrong" I'll just do it my way.
As an aside: the language of combat casting suggests readying an action to interrupt a spell caster is a viable tactic. I wonder if there was a late in development change and some of the previous language persists, creating the confusion.
Anyway, let's consider what the impact on play is of the rule as it is written and intended. Simply put, one cannot prepare to stop a caster from unleashing a spell. The only real option aside from counter-spelling is to place melee fighters within reach of casters. This has the benefit of keeping melee viable in a world of guns and grenades, which is a net positive I think. It also strongly suggests that casters do not travel alone, or even without enough allies to block incoming melee fighters. Casters become quarterbacks, essentially.
This also makes Step Up And Strike an even more valuable feat, since Step Up leaves you unable to take an opportunity attack.
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Shock Collar mixed with a detect magic sensor.
Make the cell have extremely bright light that randomly strobes in different patterns combined with extremely loud noise that randomly changes (changing from claxon to a steady dance best to sounds of a whale call to heavy metal to heartbeat to kid screaming to high pitch squeal to dogs barking to speaker feedback to...)
Then rule that such a scenario prevents concentration (because it does; I'm unfortunate enough to have been witness to it in real life), and also hinders sleep, making rest impossible.
It's called input overload.
Your players may or may not use such tactics when they take over the ship, because long term sleep deprivation is considered to be torture by some - but it would be perfect for the drow.
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They really need to add something equivalent to carbonite or a stasis pod to this game. A spellcaster in cold sleep can be depended on not to be able to cast any spells.
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Well, I played Starfinder at Paizocon with Owen KC Stephens and he told us the rule was that you couldn't interrupt spellcasting anymore, all ready actions go after the foe performs his action. He explained in detail that since everyone has guns and access to a gun they had to simplify the ranged rules and make it viable for spellcasting to work, otherwise nothing would ever get cast with the old rules.
I am 100% sure that the rule works like it's described in the ready action section, it goes after the triggered event and that you move your initiative to after the foe.
We'll know for sure soon enough as everyone will be at Gen Con next week.
I can attest to the fact that with a wily Ranger longbow player, in Pathfinder, it was very easy to shut down a caster with exactly this tactic.
I burned a standard action spell and zzrrrrppp'ed that ranger to the ground.
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The OP's question is an excellent one. The most "realistic" way to contain such a dangerous prisoner might be constant sedation, but that's a cumbersome solution.
If there are any known dead magic zones in the galaxy, they'd be prime prison real estate!
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Okay, so a 1 standard action Spell can't be interrupted with a Ready. But I assume that a 1 round casting time spell CAN.
And that's what's not clear.
Ah, I see.
Well I just went through all the spells and the ONLY combat spells that take 1 round to cast are Deep Slumber (level 3), Dominate Person (level 5), Gravitational Singularity (level 6), and Modify Memory (level 5).
Everything else is either support spells or take longer to cast .. there are a surprising number of spells that take 10 minutes to cast now!
Considering none of these are low level spells I don't we need to worry about this rule until it's clearly clarified by the team.
HOWEVER, on page 331 it states clearly:
"if you’re casting a spell and you take damage from either a successful attack that targeted your AC or from an effect that you failed a saving throw against, the spell fails. ... if you are taking ongoing damage (such as if you are bleeding or on fire), your spells are not disrupted in this way."
Hence, the answer is very easy.
If you take damage while casting a spell or fail a save, it fails.
An IV for drugs, hydration, and nutrients, and a catheter for waste. Problem (very cruelly) solved!
If you're in Sci-Fi Prison, better hide your spellcasting status, or it's The Table for you!
No! No! Not The Table!!!
If there are any known dead magic zones in the galaxy, they'd be prime prison real estate!
That's an awesome idea - like "The Kyln" from Guardians of the Galaxy, but with anti-magic.
Sure, that's why I also pointed out failing a save in my post! Glad to be of service!Did you even read my post?In the Tactical Rules chapter, Actions in Combat section, it specifies that most spells, unless stated otherwise, leave you open to AoO's and if it hits you, you fail and lose the spell. This time around there's no calculating a concentration check based on the damage you took...you just lose the spell and fail.
Also, in the Magic and Spells chapter, Casting Spells section, it further states that if you take damage (not ongoing damage such as bleeding) or fail a save while casting, you fail and lose the spell. They also specifically state a foe can ready an action to target you when you begin to cast.
With ray guns and lasers and such being widely available, basically everyone now is a threat to casters.
Not true, spells still need a "component", just not the typical verbal, somatic, or consumable ones we are used to. Concentration is still a thing, as listed below from p334:
Most spells have a casting time of one standard action. Others
take 1 round or more, while a few powerful special abilities
allow a character to cast a spell as a move action. A few reactive
spells can be cast as reactions, but they are generally limited in
nature, such as the 1st-level casting of flight.
When you begin casting a spell that takes 1 round or longer
to cast, you must maintain your concentration from the current
round to just before your turn in the next round (at least). If
you lose concentration or take another action (even a reaction)
before the casting is complete, the spell fails.
So the suggestions from your fellow posters are highly logical and helpful. If you keep the guards out of sight alone, that will stop about over half the spells usable since there is no line of effect. What's more, if you make the area a hard-to-concentrate area (e.g., gravity, a constant dull-pain of some kind of collar or whatnot, lack of sleep, etc.) then it's easy enough to explain that the concentration necessary to focus on a spell becomes next to impossible to find.
You're the GM, ultimately, so figure it out. Combat-only is not the only way.