PFS character idea - only works in PFS...

[nosig]

Ok, normally for advice/comments (and flames) on a character build, I would go to the Advice board and not the PFS board, but this is dealing with, and only possible in PFS. So I'm posting it on the PFS board... hopefully it will stay here for a few days and I can get some PFS advice before it gets moved to the general advice board and I start getting people telling me to "talk it over with the GM, and maybe the other players."

I am thinking of using the "Rebuild at 2nd Level" and the "Core Campaign" rules to create a sort of backstory for a PC. My thought goes something like this...

1) Create a Core game PC. A martial type I think, maybe a Paladin...
2) Play them in 3 old scenarios. Ones like Silent Tide or Black Waters maybe... Old school games that maybe get referenced in later scenarios.
3) Then , when they would go to 2nd level, re-create them as a much older PC - advancing the age and changing the stats as much as I can to create the illusion of a PC who aged. And so I would have a PC who was a Martial Type at first level (with the stats to do that well) and who later became a spell caster (maybe a Sorcerer? or Bard? if they were a Paladin formerly), and now has the stats to do THAT well.
4) and by jumping from the Core campaign to the Standard, I could keep referring to "Well, it was different back in MY DAY. We did things differently back then, things were a lot simpler ...." and "You young'uns don't know how soft you got it. Back in MY DAY we didn't have things like Spring Wrist Sheaths or Potion Sponges...". I can see a ton of RP things with this idea. "Well, the Society called me back outta retirement to help beat some sense into you young'uns..."
5) Heck, I could even use one or two of my Judge re-plays to run them thru Confirmation or the Wounded Wisp and talk about "how it really was back then!"

anyway - does this sound like a good idea?

anyone to see anything to expand on this? Other little wrinkles to add in?

[Nefreet]

I remember there being concerns about abusing the free rebuild using Core credit and transitioning said Core blob to Standard.

I think the only way to do what you want is to play TWO Core scenarios, not three. When you play your third scenario, that's when you play your first Standard session.

Then you can rebuild that character however you want.

Not sure it that hiccups your experience too much.

[nosig]

Nefreet wrote:

I remember there being concerns about abusing the free rebuild using Core credit and transitioning said Core blob to Standard.

I think the only way to do what you want is to play TWO Core scenarios, not three. When you play your third scenario, that's when you play your first Standard session.

Then you can rebuild that character however you want.

Not sure it that hiccups your experience too much.

Nah, if that's the way it should be fine. I'd just need to use a re-play to re-do the third one... or maybe even play Fallen Fortress, or maybe First Steps as my first. Or heck, even Crypt of the Everflame! yeah, that would work... and kind of be a cap-stone to "The Chronicles of Sir Oldguy, Paladin of the Old School". SO I make the transition from Core to Standard at 2XP then play an older Evergreen.

What two CORE scenarios world you recommend?

edit: Or heck, I could even Transfer campaigns after my 4th game, it's only really Stats that I am looking to change. Play my first game after re-building as another CORE, then transition to Standard. Means my starting spells would be Old School (CORE), but that is kind of cool too.

[TwilightKnight]

Nefreet wrote:

I think the only way to do what you want is to play TWO Core scenarios, not three. When you play your third scenario, that's when you play your first Standard session.

Why? The rebuild is good until you actually play at 2nd level. So, he could play three scenarios at level 1 in CORE. Apply them to the character, and then rebuild. The PC becoming non-CORE does not have to wait until the point at which it actually plays in a non-CORE game. Simply selecting a non-CORE character option would void their CORE status. So when he rebuilds as a non-CORE character (assuming that was the intent) he would immediately become ineligible for CORE games and revert to a non-CORE PC.

[TimD]

Much amusement at your concept.
Excellent use of the Core to Standard transition.
Bonus point if your Core character has "Adopted" trait (which does nothing in Core) and transitions to "Adopted" with an actual trait as part of your free rebuild. (ex "still getting used to having been adopted by halflings - but my mind isn't what it used to be. I'd swear I didn't remember my parents until recently. Musta been 'cause they were so short.")

other random role-playing amusement thoughts:
"Don't even ask me about my Confirmation, young-un's, 'Drippy Dreng' is still around, but I he made me swear I'd never tell the story about how he earned that nickname if I ever wanted my body recovered again".

"Used to be the best tailor in this city. Of course, I remember when it went downhill - their main tailor went back to being Aroden, but that's just life in Absalom. He was a great tailor and an ok god, which is why I still worship him to this day."

[Nefreet]

Bob Jonquet wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

I think the only way to do what you want is to play TWO Core scenarios, not three.

Why?

It's possible I'm misremembering correctly, because these discussions were had years ago, but I wanted to do exactly what nosig is looking to do, except with multiple levels of Core credit, and the answer to prevent that was that you had to actually *play* as a Standard character in order to transition to Standard.

If nosig waits until he has 3xp, that's too late. He could only do it when he has 2xp.

I could try to dig for Mike Brock's response tonight. I fully admit it's possible I'm wrong.

[pauljathome]

It sounds hilarious as long as you don't overdo it TOO much. A few old curmudgeon remarks a session would likely be enough.

How old are you (the player)? I think you get extra bonus points for this if you appear old enough to make Curmudgeonly remarks as the player as well as the character :-).

Edit: Before somebody calls me insensitive or something I should point out that I AM an Old Fart. Going into the Monty Python routine is one of the advantages of growing old :-)

[nosig]

Paul Jackson wrote:

It sounds hilarious as long as you don't overdo it TOO much. A few old curmudgeon remarks a session would likely be enough.

How old are you (the player)? I think you get extra bonus points for this if you appear old enough to make Curmudgeonly remarks as the player as well as the character :-).

Edit: Before somebody calls me insensitive or something I should point out that I AM an Old Fart. Going into the Monty Python routine is one of the advantages of growing old :-)

Yeah... "Old Fart"...

I remember the first time Nathan King (wrote Weapon in the Rift etc.) ran a game for me, and all of us went to eat after (like at midnight). Some one asked and I said I had started playing in 1975...in High School... and Nathan said I started playing when his father was 3... makes me feel old. Maybe I can tap into that....

"I tell you, I was gaming back when Druids were a monster! Heck, Elf was a CLASS! You younguns got it easy, we had to paint our own minis, which were lead!, an another thing..." The Nurses scrabble to wheel the old gamer back to his room! - the shutting door cuts of the rest of his rant.

[nosig]

Nefreet wrote:

Bob Jonquet wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

I think the only way to do what you want is to play TWO Core scenarios, not three.

Why?

It's possible I'm misremembering correctly, because these discussions were had years ago, but I wanted to do exactly what nosig is looking to do, except with multiple levels of Core credit, and the answer to prevent that was that you had to actually *play* as a Standard character in order to transition to Standard.

If nosig waits until he has 3xp, that's too late. He could only do it when he has 2xp.

I could try to dig for Mike Brock's response tonight. I fully admit it's possible I'm wrong.

See if you can find that for me ok? I may do this soon, whole the idea is still fresh.

Right now I'm having fun trying to figure Stats. Coming up with a 20 pt.buy that would still be a 20 pt.buy when you subtract 3 from the physical stats and add 2 to all the mental.

Ok, here's the first draft for Stats (before Racial mod);

Adult Paladin: ST-12, DX-15, CN-13, IN-10, WS-8, CH-16
This looks ok with me, not real strong but more of a Shooter Paladin I think. More than likely be Human... or maybe Halfling?

Old Guy Sorcerer?: ST-9, DX-12, CN-10, IN-12, WS-10, CH-18. Kind of low on the physical side, but that's the price for being old.

How do those PCs look?

[GreySector]

You could slow track some adventures at level one to get in more play if you were inclined to do so.

[nosig]

Michael Eshleman wrote:

You could slow track some adventures at level one to get in more play if you were inclined to do so.

And I might, if I can find someone playing CORE. As it is, to get in 3 games I would be pulling in favors and relying on friends...

But thanks for the suggestion!

[Ferious Thune]

I was remembering the restriction being that you couldn't rebuild into non-core options. You can change from core to standard anytime you want, but that you'd be restricted to core options for the initial build. Once you've switched, you could of course take anything you want or retrain core levels. I couldn't find the post about it, though. All I found was the post saying you can't rebuild the other direction. In other words, you can't play a scenario in standard and then rebuild the character into core.

Here's that LINK. It's possible that other discussion is somewhere later in that thread and I'm just missing it.

[Fromper]

I hope there are no problems transitioning from core to standard. I have a human fighter who will be core through level 3, using PBP to get there since there's no core play around here. When I hit level 4, I'll take a feat from the Weapon Master's Handbook, and play him in standard going forward.

[nosig]

Any suggestions on what two classes to switch from?

At first glance I figured: Paladin --> Sorcerer.

But maybe that isn't the best...

2) Ranger --> Cleric?
3) Paladin --> Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger?) (if I do this one I'll have to go back and watch some John Wayne movies again... maybe True Grit, or Big Jake).
4) Rogue --> Wizard?

any other suggestions I should look at?

[Zephyre14]

Something like Paladin to life Oracle would be very thematic if I am understanding the Oracle class correctly (got old couldn't wield the weapon good anymore, but the diety still speaks through and empowers your frailing body to do it's work).

I would not recommend Sorcerer since it is a class so linked to heritage and the like and you are playing up the role-play of the character.

[waltero]

What about fighter or ranger switching to gunslinger.

"Back in my day we only had bows. These guns make everything so easy."

[nosig]

Zephyre14 wrote:

Something like Paladin to life Oracle would be very thematic if I am understanding the Oracle class correctly (got old couldn't wield the weapon good anymore, but the diety still speaks through and empowers your frailing body to do it's work).

I would not recommend Sorcerer since it is a class so linked to heritage and the like and you are playing up the role-play of the character.

I figured Sorcerer because "It's not something you get to chose - the blood just calls to you. One morning I woke up and noticed I had these powers...and they just call to me." and Celestial bloodline seems fitting.

[The Raven Black]

Core Rogue to Non-Core Wizard ? From dog to god :-))

"Magic, where were you all my life ?"

[nosig]

waltero wrote:

What about fighter or ranger switching to gunslinger.

"Back in my day we only had bows. These guns make everything so easy."

yeah, that's why I was looking at 3) Paladin --> Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger?).

"As my strength and coordination started to fail, I had to pick up something to compensate." Both classes use a high CHA - but I'm not real familiar with Gunslinger (and it's Archetypes). You think Ranger --> Gunslinger would work?

Stats would go something like...

Physical 15, 13, 12 going to 12, 10, 9
Mental 16, 10, 8 going to 18, 12, 10

or written as PCs Phy = 15,13,12 Mental = 16,10,8
going to this Phy = 12,10,9 Mental = 18,12,10

[Nefreet]

Here is what I remembered:

On January 26th, 2015, Michael Brock wrote:

andreww wrote:

Michael Brock wrote:

You can assign Core Chronicle GM sheets to a core character only. However, that character can then be switched to a normal mode character, So, you could GM 12 Core mode games, assign them all to a Core mode character, and then switch that Core mode character over to normal mode and go from there. Granted you wouldn't be able to assign him future Core mode chronicles, but it is an option.

Lets say that I have those 12 chronicles on my nebulous GM character. He is technically level 5 but I haven't built him yet. Can I decide to switch him to non core at the point I build the actual character and make, say, a Magus or do I have to wait until he has played a non Core game before he can use non Core options?

You have to make a Core character with those Core Chronicles. You can't apply 12 Chronicles to a GM baby and then make a Magus from it.

So in order to do what you want to do, you have to play the character in a Standard game in order to transition it from Core to Standard.

The only way to do that is while you're still Level 1.

But as someone else suggested, if you want to play 3 Core games, just make one of them Slow Track, and you'd be fine.

ADDENDUM: HERE is a slightly different question I asked later in that thread about Core/Standard rebuilding. Mike Brock didn't directly answer it, but he didn't correct Andrew Christian's answer at the time, either.

[nosig]

The Raven Black wrote:

Core Rogue to Non-Core Wizard ? From dog to god :-))

"Magic, where were you all my life ?"

so the stats would be like...

Rogue ST 12, DX 15, CN 13, IN 16, WS 10, CH 8
Wizard ST 9, DX 12, CN 10, IN 18, WS 12, CH 10

That's before Racial adjustments - does that look workable?

Right now I'm thinking I'll need to go Human or Half-Orc as they are the shortest lived PCs (means "old" is faster to get to) - unless someone has a better suggestion?

[GinoA]

Small point @Nefreet, all of Mike's comments about limiting transition to Regular-campaign appear to be talking about GM credits. I don't tink he says you can't transition a player-chronicle-only Core to Regular without a table of regular played.

[Paz]

The season 8 Guide says:

Quote:

a Core PC can play at a Standard Campaign event, but the PC irrevocably becomes part of to the Standard Campaign, can no longer participate in Core Campaign events, and can now select any character options permitted in the Standard campaign.

That reads the way I've always understood it: it's the act of playing a standard mode game that triggers the transition. Until you hear the mission briefing of that standard campaign scenario, it's still a core campaign PC (and limited by the choices available in that campaign). If you're already 2nd level when you play your first standard mode scenario, you will not be able to rebuild using non-core options.

[TimD]

So, play a replayable scenario or mod (of just one for the first time) in Standard that requires a PreGen, such as one of the We Be Goblins scenarios and apply that as a Standard and it should work out?

[nosig]

TimD wrote:

So, play a replayable scenario or mod (of just one for the first time) in Standard that requires a PreGen, such as one of the We Be Goblins scenarios and apply that as a Standard and it should work out?

or just Judge the 4th XP on the character? and apply THAT as a Standard, then re-build before the first game PLAYED in the Standard Campaign.

[K-kun the Insane]

Or, y'know...rebuild into a CRB class with no archetypes such as a Sorcerer as originally intended. The only problem with the rebuild/transition is if you rebuild into something noncore. The Palisorc is perfectly viable. He starts with CRB spells and equipment but from then on can select spells/equipment from additional resources.

[Nefreet]

nosig wrote:

TimD wrote:

So, play a replayable scenario or mod (of just one for the first time) in Standard that requires a PreGen, such as one of the We Be Goblins scenarios and apply that as a Standard and it should work out?

or just Judge the 4th XP on the character? and apply THAT as a Standard, then re-build before the first game PLAYED in the Standard Campaign.

That specifically doesn't work. It's exactly what I asked him.

[pauljathome]

nosig wrote:

Michael Eshleman wrote:

You could slow track some adventures at level one to get in more play if you were inclined to do so.

And I might, if I can find someone playing CORE. As it is, to get in 3 games I would be pulling in favors and relying on friends...

But thanks for the suggestion!

There are a whole bunch of Core games being offered online in the next month or so

[nosig]

pauljathome wrote:

nosig wrote:

Michael Eshleman wrote:

You could slow track some adventures at level one to get in more play if you were inclined to do so.

And I might, if I can find someone playing CORE. As it is, to get in 3 games I would be pulling in favors and relying on friends...

But thanks for the suggestion!

There are a whole bunch of Core games being offered online in the next month or so

Old dude - so I just play at a table ... where I can see the other players. Yeah, just old fashioned I guess...

[Nefreet]

To keep in theme with old/new, you should play your Core games at a table, and your Standard games via PbP.

[nosig]

In building Sir Ol'Guy (Paladin-->Oracle?), I pulled out Seelah to get a look at an older paladin write-up usable in Core... and made a discovery.

Seelah's Stats (before racial mods) are 14,10,14,10,13,15...
and if we age her two age groups to "old" they become 11,7,11,12,15,17. Which is a 20 point build. Not that I'm going to use her - but... wow. Just had to share that with someone.

[nosig]

Fromper wrote:

I hope there are no problems transitioning from core to standard. I have a human fighter who will be core through level 3, using PBP to get there since there's no core play around here. When I hit level 4, I'll take a feat from the Weapon Master's Handbook, and play him in standard going forward.

well, it looks like you are going to have to play him in a Standard game before you hit level 4 and take that feat...

And it looks like I'm not going to be able to create this PC after all. Have to do him in Standard I guess - just have to burn thru some Re-Plays to get the older games on him. Or play Fallen Fortress/First Steps and maybe a replay for Silent Tide or something... ah, well. Table the idea, maybe I'll come back to him some other time - if I can figure some way to make the "re-create older" idea work inside the rules.

[Fromper]

nosig wrote:

Fromper wrote:

I hope there are no problems transitioning from core to standard. I have a human fighter who will be core through level 3, using PBP to get there since there's no core play around here. When I hit level 4, I'll take a feat from the Weapon Master's Handbook, and play him in standard going forward.

well, it looks like you are going to have to play him in a Standard game before you hit level 4 and take that feat...

And it looks like I'm not going to be able to create this PC after all. Have to do him in Standard I guess - just have to burn thru some Re-Plays to get the older games on him. Or play Fallen Fortress/First Steps and maybe a replay for Silent Tide or something... ah, well. Table the idea, maybe I'll come back to him some other time - if I can figure some way to make the "re-create older" idea work inside the rules.

From the wording of the Mike Brock quote, it sounded like he was just talking about GM credit babies. In your case, the rebuild at the end of level 1 might make the same rule apply.

But in my case, I'm not doing any rebuilding. Just playing/GMing Core for 9 tables, then adding a non-Core feat, and switching to playing him at standard/non-Core tables. If his last table played at level 3 has to be standard in order to transition him, that's not a big deal for me, but I don't see why I'd have to.

[CORE 40]

Ok, got my first game on Ol'Guy, and things went well.

Played Black Water, and had a lot of fun.

Black Water:

Actually thinking of dropping a "Fighting Off Corruption (Ghoul)" boon on him now... as he got hit by the Ghast right at the end, and then healed up and with all the excitement I can see where a little thing like Ghoul Fever might have gotten missed... (actually he made the save - but heck, it makes a good story!)

Character development is going quite nicely...

VC Drandl Drang sure was different in the original. It seems he even had a bit of a name change? I need to research this more - it looks like something Kewl to add to my backstory.

"Yeah, I remember Drang back in the old days, before 'The Incident' - but it's best not to talk about that. Sworn to secrecy and all that..."

[Sir Thugsalot]

nosig wrote:

1) Create a Core game PC. A martial type I think, maybe a Paladin...

2) Play them in 3 old scenarios. Ones like Silent Tide or Black Waters maybe... Old school games that maybe get referenced in later scenarios.
3) Then , when they would go to 2nd level, re-create them as a much older PC - advancing the age and <snip>

anyway - does this sound like a good idea? anyone to see anything to expand on this? Other little wrinkles to add in?

Well, the first thing that occurs to me is that you don't need to actually play those old mods (with their Year-0 crap treasure: "In MY DAY, we didn't get treasure!"). This is, after all, an RPG. You can hit the ground hobbling as an old fart character concept the very first time you play them.

~ ~ ~ ~

My "old fart" character is a crotchety venerable wizard whose story is that he's always screwing up "Time Stop" and getting punted into another alternate dimension where all the magic and all the rules are different, and he has start all over again. "I had entire shelves of tomes that are now obsolete! Not even the cantrips would work! Half-Price Books wouldn't even take 'em off my hands! I had to take up adventuring again to pay the rent!"

[Sir Ol'Guy]

Ok, I need to check how transitioning from Core to Standard works in a specific case...

If my PC has 2XP in Core (and so is a Core PC), and I run a Standard game - Can I assign the chronicle to him? would that make him a Core PC still or a Standard PC for his NEXT game (not for his third game, the the one where I ran the game and gave him Judge credit)?

I am due to run an Evergreen (Standard) game on Thursday, and I need to know if I can legally assign it to my (Core) PC - or if I need to assign it to an entirely new PC.

[Ferious Thune]

I'm not certain about whether you are allowed to assign it. If you are and you do, then I believe the character will become a Standard character. At the very least, the website will move it to Standard if it has a Standard game reported for it.

[Sir Ol'Guy]

Ferious Thune wrote:

I'm not certain about whether you are allowed to assign it. If you are and you do, then I believe the character will become a Standard character. At the very least, the website will move it to Standard if it has a Standard game reported for it.

that's what I am figuring too, but I don't want to do this if it's going against the rules... LOL, my guy is a paladin of Abadar after all. Got to stay inside the Law...