I still have not figured out how you get skills, how you make ranks in them, and what that has to do with the advancement of hit points? I have listened to the videos, and read the books and still feel like I do not have a good grasp of the concepts.
You get skill points by levelling up. When you do, you get a number of skill points which varies depending on class and Intelligence modifier. So, if you play an alchemist, every time you level up you get 4 skill points + a number of extra points determined by the Intelligence modifier.
so if i WAS A monk i would get all those Class Skills and when he leveled up he get 4 for all of his class skills + his int bonus?
No.
Class skills simply mean you get a fee +3 bonus to the skill (if you put at least one rank in it) when you use it (this is different from the ranks you have in the skill). It's a miscellaneous modifier to the skill.
Each level, your character gains a number of skill ranks dependent upon your class plus your Intelligence modifier. Investing a rank in a skill represents a measure of training in that skill. You can never have more ranks in a skill than your total number of Hit Dice. In addition, each class has a number of favored skills, called class skills. It is easier for your character to become more proficient in these skills, as they represent part of his professional training and constant practice. You gain a +3 bonus on all class skills that you put ranks into. If you have more than one class and both grant you a class skill bonus, these bonuses do not stack.
The number of skill ranks you gain when taking a level in one of the base classes is shown on Table: Skill Ranks. Humans gain 1 additional skill rank per class level. Characters who take a level in a favored class have the option of gaining 1 additional skill rank or an additional hit point. If you select a level in a new class, all of its class skills are automatically added to your list of class skills, and you gain a +3 bonus on these skills if you have ranks in them.
If my monk made it up to 2nd level and he put 1 point into stealth? It would be stealth (rank 2) and gain a +3 on my stealth rolls, am I right? and can I spend skill points for more hit points?
It would be 1 rank since you only put 1 rank in there, and the +3 Class Bonus. You get skill points at level 1 as well to start off.
so you do not automatically get class skills you have to choose them from the starting pool. what if you wanted a craft sklll: cat skinning, would that be an untrained skill?
Catskinning Is driving a wagon with multiple horses/oxen/ or mules. I used it here for the color.
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Yes, the term "class skills" is just a term for those skills you would get the +3 bonus if you're character chose to put skill ranks in it.
As far as your second question goes, an untrained skill is any skill you didn't put skill ranks in. Some skills can't be used untrained but most can. But with un untrained skill, you also don't get the +3 bonus even if it's theoretically one of your class skills.
thank you shaventalz I saw the LIGHT!!! Thank you for your time and effort bringing this to where I could understand it. thanks to one and all.
Being dense is my shtick.
I think.
Being dense is my shtick.
I think.
I think therefor I am. You are an am. What"s an Dam I'am Sam?
Lets say my monk (Brother Godfrey) got started adventuring when the quiet, contemplative life went out the door and the dragon boats landed on the abbey's beach and the guys with horned helmets and great big axes (and sharpe too) hopped ashore.
Brother Godfrey has been a church lawyer for about 10 years (that would put him at level 5 in the legal trade). How would you quantify that level experience into the skill system?
Bluff, Intimidate, diplomacy would be good skills to have, I think perform (oratory) and knowledge
(law) would be a must.
Walking in to town near you. Brother Godfrey on a quest for justice as the JUDGE.
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Profession (Barrister). :-)
If you make something (like bake a pie) it's Craft.
If you do something (like a lawyer or a sailor or a fireman) it's Profession.
If you're a village person it's Perform. :-)
Yes I agree the profession would be a barrister which is a fancy english term. A kettle of fish is a kettle of fish, so i'll call Brother Godfrey a lawyer. what I want is to get game skills that a lawyer would be trained in, considering the back story.
You're on the right track with bluff and diplomacy.
I wouldn't think intimidate would be necessary, but I guess that depends on the legal system. :-)
Chief Technical Officer
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If you're playing one of the classes in the Core Rulebook, I would recommend you check out Strategy Guide, which presents this stuff in a far more approachable way than the Core Rulebook does.
Lets say my monk (Brother Godfrey) got started adventuring when the quiet, contemplative life went out the door and the dragon boats landed on the abbey's beach and the guys with horned helmets and great big axes (and sharpe too) hopped ashore.
Brother Godfrey has been a church lawyer for about 10 years (that would put him at level 5 in the legal trade). How would you quantify that level experience into the skill system?
Bluff, Intimidate, diplomacy would be good skills to have, I think perform (oratory) and knowledge
(law) would be a must.
Walking in to town near you. Brother Godfrey on a quest for justice as the JUDGE.
A few points of nitpicking.
The monk class is based around East Asian monks, like the shaolin variety, which doesn't really match up well with what you're describing (to me).
To me it sounds more like you're describing an Cleric or Inquisitor of Abadar (god of civilization).
As for how that works mechanically...there is always a disconnect when you try to write a backstory that would imply high levels of skill and starting at level 1. I recommend you avoid doing so unless you know you will be starting at higher levels. At level 1 you will have 1 rank in profession barrister, you are the lowest level training of being a lawyer possible in the game.
Aside from profession barrister bluff and diplomacy are good choices. Intimidate doesn't necessarily make sense to me, lawyers don't usually try to intimidate people as part of the job, but they might do so to get an advantage outside the law. Knowledge of laws is actually covered by knowledge (local). Perform oratory isn't really appropriate at all, it's singing.
Being dense is my shtick.
I think.
You probably need an alias for that, just to make it clear.
Though "vapid" comes pretty close to the mark. ;)
Its only a story telling game. We steal stuff from different mythos to make characters that have the ability to live and speak to our hearts. Brother Godfrey is a monk with the back story that his order was nearly wiped out by Vikings (Ireland, Dark Ages). He then becomes a traveling monk, that where ever he stands there is law and justice there (Qui Chang Cain and the Equalizer). He has this hard unshakable ethic but is really a jolly older, fat man that likes nothing more than a good meal, a drink, and a laugh (Frair Tuck) with a love of dance and poetry (myself). Characters are a quilt of influences that have been blatantly plagiarized from other sources. It would be a crime to not play him. I am new to Pathfinder, not to storytelling games. Thank you for indulging me. Your opinions have helped me flesh out Brother Godfrey.
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Also - ask you GM if you will be using Unchained Background Skills.
You may have a couple of extra skills ranks per level that you could invest in non-adventuring skills, that correspond to activities you like doing during your free time, such as:
- Appraise
- Craft
- Handle Animal
- Knowledge (engineering)
- Knowledge (geography)
- Knowledge (history)
- Knowledge (nobility)
- Linguistics
- Perform
- Profession
- Sleight of Hand
So now, you have two ranks in Acrobatics and Perception, and one rank in each of Climb, Sense Motive, Stealth, and Diplomacy.
Your Acrobatics modifier would be 2 (ranks) + 3 (class skill) + Dex.
Perception would be similar, at 2 (ranks) + 3 (class skill) + Wis.
Your Stealth modifier would be 1 (rank) + 3 (class skill) + Dex. Not quite as good as Acrobatics, but you haven't invested quite as much training in it (and it's still really close).Your Diplomacy, though... it would be 1 (rank) + Cha. It's not a class skill, so you don't get the extra +3. Your poor monk is just trying to a smooth talker, but his training program doesn't lend itself well to that skill.
Just wanted to clarify, for completeness' sake, that you don't add your entire ability score, just the modifier. So if the ability score was a 12 or 13, you'd add +1, for example. Had been 14 or 15, you would add +2, and so on for ever two points (even numbers) more or less than that. Note it is possible to have a +0 (10 or 11) or even a negative modifier for lower scores.
Catskinning Is driving a wagon with multiple horses/oxen/ or mules. I used it here for the color.
Driving a wagon with multiple pulling animals (a team) is a job for a teamster who calls his job driving.
A mule-skinner (or muleteer) leads a pack-train of pack-mules and calls his job muleskinning.
A catskinner ? Sorry, I just can't imagine cats accepting a pack or being driven/lead anywhere they didn't want to go.
In pathfinder, it's all likely "Handle Animal" or "Profession(teamster or muleteer)".
There is a bit of Judge Dreade mixed in with Qui Chang Cain (Kung Fu) and the Equalizer. It is has been around us for thousands of years, this idea of stripping and mixing for mythos making. The whole idea of Hell came from the Persians, not from the Hebrew/Christian heritage. The Romans plagiarized the Greeks and the Japanese plagiarized the Chinese. We are all a diversity ideas.
Iomede is the only one comes close to a Great Law Giver (Planet of the Apes 1968 version, Judo-Christian) in this world? I like her for BG's deity but you have the bad Guys more interesting than the Good,.
Oratory is also known as rhetoric, the science of the spoken word; better known as the art of persuasion. It includes poetry recitation, storytelling, Sunday go to morning preaching, and the talk your way out trouble for being out after curfew excuse. So do not take it lightly, when you want to motivate a crowd, or talk your way out of a parking ticket your going to use oratory.
I know it is a process, but skills system needs to be updated. I know that it issuing to be painful, and its going to cause a lot of strife.
Unchained brings up the issue by making less skills but the skills are twice as broad. Their example was a dwarf that knew the region, that knew a town in the region, that knew a tavern in the town in the region. Excuse me, he knew every bar in the region. This has its charms and certainly tells a story but it still clouds the issue. THERE SHOULD BE NO SKILLS. THE DM GIVES YOU ALL THE INFORMATION YOU NEED TO KNOW TO INTERACT WITH AND TO REACT TO THE STORYLINE. YOU CAN HAVE A GOOD TIME NEVER ROLLING DICE AT ALL. With that being said here is my plug for the big dice companies.
That is like Knowledge: Law would take in the scope and detail of the law. It would take in the social significance of the law and what we stand for as sentient beings. The dramatic tension between moral convention and guiding principle plays out in the stories we tell one another. It is as useful as knowledge: nobility the law at least has bar exam.
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Iomede is the only one comes close to a Great Law Giver (Planet of the Apes 1968 version, Judo-Christian) in this world? I like her for BG's deity but you have the bad Guys more interesting than the Good,.
Asmodeus for "evil" (aka abide by your contracts no matter how unconscionable) and Abadar for neutral. Check out the Hellknight Order of the Godclaw for a very interesting pantheist approach to lawful. Erastil also could be a great law giver but with more of a pioneering feel--and Irori can be a lawgiver with a more Buddhist feel. I'm sure there are many others. If there's one thing Golarion is not short on it is gods.
It may be a little simple putting it this way. All of the strife in the world is a response to the law. It is also the rallying point for all heroic effort and those who would defend the weak. Law is a natural expression of good, it informs our choices. It gives us a scaffold to grow into when we are not strong enough to stand on our own. The way we look at the Law shows us what side of the alignment spectrum we are on. If we look at the law as a helpmate and a guide we are going to be lawful good. If we see it as a tool to manipulate and trap other weaker souls, we will be evil. If we see the law as an impediment to our freedom of choice, then we are chaotic.
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It may be a little simple putting it this way. All of the strife in the world is a response to the law. It is also the rallying point for all heroic effort and those who would defend the weak. Law is a natural expression of good, it informs our choices. It gives us a scaffold to grow into when we are not strong enough to stand on our own. The way we look at the Law shows us what side of the alignment spectrum we are on. If we look at the law as a helpmate and a guide we are going to be lawful good. If we see it as a tool to manipulate and trap other weaker souls, we will be evil. If we see the law as an impediment to our freedom of choice, then we are chaotic.
might be too simplified, as it screams inaccuracy to me. Sentence by sentence response:
If all the strife in the world is a response to law, then without law their would no strife. Which I don't think is true.
Heroic effort may rally around many causes, and law is certainly one of them. That said, law doesn't defend the weak - law defends the lawful. If the lawful happen to be weak, then it still defends them, but law doesn't defend the unlawful weak.
Consistancy in life does generate a "scaffold to grow into," but consistancy doesn't exist purely in law.
I do think that the Lawful character is most likely to be aware of the alignment spectrum, but I think that's more an issue of the Lawful need to catagorize and establish "offical" definitions. By contrast, a chaotic character likely doesn't acknowledge the concept of being within an alignment, just because by their very nature they resist attempts to be catagorized or defined.
A lawful good character views law as being an inherent and intrisic part of being good. It is not merely a guide or "helpmat" to being good. A lawful good character is unable to see goodness without law or law without goodness - they are tainted concepts to the lawful good character.
As for trapping "weaker" souls or manipulating people, that's not really an evil concept. Law is inherently trapping and manipulating, but it's in what is being done, that determines the good or evil aspects. For a lawful example, consider a Zoo. Animals are certainly weaker souls in the eyes of most humans, and the law certainly manipulates them into being trapped in the Zoo. That said, a Zoo does not have to be evil. I've seen an Evil Zoo and I've seen a Good Zoo, there is certainly a difference.
A chaotic character sees the lawful approach as an impairment to their freedoms, but they might not see the law itself as such. Remember that despite similar names, the law does not always dicate the actions of a lawful character, as the law does not always promote itself. The issue is that the written (or spoken) rules of a government are not always created by those of lawful alignment, and may even be deliberately designed to promote a chaotic response.
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Yes I agree with you. You make some worthy and wise points. I filled this message space with generalizations and tangential rants that are both pompous and grandiose. I am also sure I could use a grammar program also. I am deeply sorry for changing the theme and tone of this thread.
Yours truly, Jeffrey Wilson: aka Dizzydoo42