Hello all,
So I was checking out Hammer the Gap, and it kind've puzzled me.
I mean, I get how it works I'm just wondering how useful it is.
Something like Weapon Specialization seems to do the same thing or better and is more reliable. It seems like that Hammer the Gap would be GREAT for some Monk Builds that get a million attacks. Though, it seems the more handy it'd be, the more attacks you have, and the less likely they are to hit consecutively.
Is this feat actually good for dealing damage?
From a quick glance I'd say it'd work best with a natural attack build, since they get many attacks often with different (natural) weapons, making weapon specialization not work as good for them. A summoner's eidolon might benefit from the feat. I'm not really sure that would be enough to make it good though, depends on the number of natural attacks you'd have.
Just simple math:
Hammer the Gap:
1 Hit (1 Total Damage)
2 Hits (3 Total Damage)
3 Hits (6 Total Damage)
4 Hits (10 Total Damage)
5 Hits (15 Total Damage)
Weapon Specialization:
1 Hit (2 Total Damage)
2 Hits (4 Total Damage)
3 Hits (6 Total Damage)
4 Hits (8 Total Damage)
5 Hits (10 Total Damage)
This obviously doesn't take into account the fact that if you Miss you lose everything, and that you Miss at minimum 5% of the time. Then you have to take into account things such as concealment, images, armor, etc. It might be useful for natural attacks, as you then don't have to take Weapon Specialization multiple times, but it pales to Arcane Strike in that regard (if you qualify).
Honestly I've never found it to be useful except against Low-AC targets and even then it was lackluster. I've taken it on a Brawler with Martial Flexibility, but after trying out Dedicated Adversary, DA won out every time.
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It's a trap.
After doing the math that says it takes 4 consecutive hits before it outdamages weapon specialization and 3 consecutive hits before it equals weapon specialization, ask yourself, how many opponents take three or four consecutive hits to go down. If there are very many, you're doing something wrong.
Even for characters who aren't packing a greatsword/earthbreaker/lucerne hammer/etc and power attacking for a bazillion points of damage each hit, the situations where you will deal three or more consecutive hits are few and far between. More often, you will deal two or three at most and then someone else will finish the foe off with a fireball, magic missile, or sneak attack. At the levels where you have more than three attacks per round with haste, much better feats are starting to become options. And if you are one of those characters with lots and lots of weak attacks, you are also likely to miss at least once before you hit that "four consecutive hits" point where it starts to be worthwhile.
It's quite good for Unchained monks that make an obscene amount of Full-bab attacks, for natural attack builds with lots of natural attacks, archery that is quite accurate.
All of these are able to have a chance at having lots of attacks that are all likely to hit.
it's probably not your best option, but if you don't count for any of the other damage boosting options it's not the worse thing you could use a feat on.
Could be nice on a Gunslinger. Unlikely to miss much if you're targeting touch AC.
Just simple math:
Hammer the Gap:
1 Hit (1 Total Damage)
2 Hits (3 Total Damage)
3 Hits (6 Total Damage)
4 Hits (10 Total Damage)
5 Hits (15 Total Damage)
Your not doing it quite right :)
When you take a full-attack action, each consecutive hit against the same opponent deals extra damage equal to the number of previous consecutive hits you have made against that opponent this turn. This damage is multiplied on a critical hit.
You only do damage equal to the "Previous" hits, so you get no damage on the first one. As such the real chart would be:
1 Hit (0 Total Damage)2 Hits (1 Total Damage)
3 Hits (3 Total Damage)
4 Hits (6 Total Damage)
5 Hits (10 Total Damage)
VS:
Weapon Specialization:
1 Hit (2 Total Damage)
2 Hits (4 Total Damage)
3 Hits (6 Total Damage)
4 Hits (8 Total Damage)
5 Hits (10 Total Damage)
So, by my math, you should catch up to Weapon Specialization by the... 5th hit?
That seems so bad, I am not incorrect am I, anyone?
My my.
That's almost Chakra bad.
Even cheating I wouldn't use it.
I'm taking it on my Minotaur Double Crossbow wielding bolt ace.
At level 7 when he gets it, assuming he has haste will fire 8 bolts a round and use a grit point to make the iterative pair target touch AC.
Of course at level 9 once available he'll also take weapon specilization.
Natural attack builds already stated, so skipping that.
I used it on a Figher(no Archetype) that did Two Weapon Fighting with two Katanas, lots of hits, lots of crits, (hammer the gap multiplies on crits!) it did quite a bit of damage!
It was also fun on a Dual Warhammer Wielding Fighter(Foe Hammer) Dwarf, the Rhythmic Blows ability pairs nicely with it!
I would also assume Zen Archer or any archer build would get some decent damage from it
Natural attack builds already stated, so skipping that.
I used it on a Figher(no Archetype) that did Two Weapon Fighting with two Katanas, lots of hits, lots of crits, (hammer the gap multiplies on crits!) it did quite a bit of damage!
It was also fun on a Dual Warhammer Wielding Fighter(Foe Hammer) Dwarf, the Rhythmic Blows ability pairs nicely with it!
I would also assume Zen Archer or any archer build would get some decent damage from it
How did you avoid the attack penalties? Is there some way for vanilla fighters to treat katanas as light weapons? I could use this...
How did you avoid the attack penalties? Is there some way for vanilla fighters to treat katanas as light weapons? I could use this...Natural attack builds already stated, so skipping that.
I used it on a Figher(no Archetype) that did Two Weapon Fighting with two Katanas, lots of hits, lots of crits, (hammer the gap multiplies on crits!) it did quite a bit of damage!
It was also fun on a Dual Warhammer Wielding Fighter(Foe Hammer) Dwarf, the Rhythmic Blows ability pairs nicely with it!
I would also assume Zen Archer or any archer build would get some decent damage from it
Advanced Weapon Training:
Effortless Dual-Wielding (Ex) The fighter treats all one-handed weapons that belong to the associated weapon group as though they were light weapons when determining his penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons.
Advanced Weapon Training:
Effortless Dual-Wielding (Ex) The fighter treats all one-handed weapons that belong to the associated weapon group as though they were light weapons when determining his penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons.
You can pick it up at lvl 9 when you get your second weapon training, OR at lvl 5 if you take the Advanced Weapon Training Feat to get it when you get your Weapon Training
Edit: Ninja'd
I used it on a two-weapon fighter, who already had Weapon Specialization. I don't think I'd take it before Specialization if I had the choice. Since it's not restricted to fighters, Hammer the Gap might be a replacement for characters that can't take Specialization.
I find that it's powerful on any Improved Critical TWF build. Otherwise...meh.
It is obscene on a TWF Gunslinger, since their attack routine is nearly impossible to miss after a certain point save for the 5% chance everyone has to miss, and they have a very, very large quantity attacks between Haste, ITWF, GTWF and Rapid Shot.
5% miss chance is definitely not something I would consider worth invalidating a feat over when that 5% will invalidate more feats than just Hammer the Gap. The feat is, however, terrible for anyone not putting out as many attacks as this gunslinger, or with as much accuracy.
It's never worth it, it's a trap feat, there's better options.
The only counter option provided as a better feat is weapon specialization. Which I agree with, but that only works if you can take Weapon Specialization. Moreover saying you have found a better feat and then posting that Hammer the Gap is a trap does not follow. At least 4 different builds have been shown to get solid use out of the feat. At high levels one can start to run out of really useful feats to take, and have to go to that second tier especially if you are playing a straight fighter. Now a more interesting argument for never taking it outside of specialized cases(which also invalidates this 'trap' nonsense anyways) would be that at the point at which you are getting enough attacks for this to be useful your DPR is already likely high enough that you are better off using the feat for defense or some other option to avoid being a 1 trick pony. I don't know that this is true, but is probably a solid guideline for thinking about.
It's been claimed for at least 4 builds. Allowing for the fact that you will miss sometimes I suspect that Martial Focus (+1 damage/hit) would be mathematically better for most. The TWF gunslinger is the main exception there.
Though the marginal benefit of a little more damage vs. defence, broadening abilities or whatever else you might get with a feat is another consideration, true.
It's never worth it, it's a trap feat, there's better options.*correction* It is only worth it in extreme corner cases where one is making 8+ attacks per round. This can be done, but is usually a trap feat.
Even when you have a high number of accurate attacks, it is still a trap feat. There are almost always better options out there.
It's not a trap in that it does do what it says it does, provide some extra damage if you have an insane number of accurate attacks. It is a weak option that has better feats that fill the same role. But if one had all the options then this feat would still benefit them.
It's a shame, because Hammer the Gap is a much more interesting feat than Weapon Specialization.
Fortunately, Weapon Spec is a Fighter only feat so if you don't qualify for Fighter 4 then Hammer the Gap is your best bet at boosting damagea after Power Attack.
Martial focus mentioned is likely better.
1 hit 1 damage v 0 damage with hammer
2 hit 2 damage v 1 damage
3 hit 3 damage v 3 damage
So for 2 hits or less in a row MF is better and at 3 the total damage is equal. But MF has the ability to still do it's damage if you miss, while HtG loses everything.
I tried to spot generally useful damage boost feats, but only came up with those:
Caster's Champion (+1 to +5, but needs arcane caster nearby and swift action)
Elemental Strike (+1 to +5 elemental, basically the elemental version of Arcane Strike, but you have to be ifrit / oread / sylph / undine and sacrifice your swift action)
Planar Focus (+1d6 to +5d6 fire, but you have to be hunter 5 and fire is the most commonly resisted energy type)
Draconic Heritage (chromatic) (+1d6 elemental, doesn't work with natural attacks)
Power Attack (+3 to +18, but only for two-handed weapons and the increasing attack penalty makes it less attractive over the course of levels - especially with other sources of damage bonuses)
Weapon Specialization (+2, +4 with follow-up feat, but you need to count as fighter 4 and are cornered into a single weapon type)
Outslug Style & Outslug Weave (+2 after 5-ft step, but you can have only one style usually and the movement might ruin flanking)
Martial Focus (+1, only slightly restricted since it applies to a whole weapon group, but it's just a +1)
Ascetic Strike (+some, but it's at the end of a feat chain and pays out mostly on the long run - your usual weapon die are not that bad)
I am pretty sure there are a few more. But while Hammer the Gap has issues, every other damage feat appearantly has too.
I wasn't really thinking of damage feats. Feats that help to lower enemy defenses, increase your accuracy, or similar things, can have a profound impact on damage as well, far more so than Hammer the Gap.
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Heh. Now I'm thinking of a monk using Jabbing Style / Hammer the Gap / A Furyborn Amulet of Mighty Fists. Someone who gets angrier at every blow she deals:
"You are making me hit you which makes me so angry that it makes me want to hit you! Rawr!"