What about cleric aren't you liking? I would suggest oracle of you want another divine caster, or sorcerer for arcane. Summoner can be fun if you want to then do it. If you want another 6 lvl caster like summoner then you could try magus. And the occult classes are all pretty fun, I'd suggest psychic for a caster, which your group lacks.
First, what roles do you feel more comfortable filling? Do you like to be a supporter, controller, damage dealer? For what I see there is room on your party for different roles, so first think what you'd like to do. A primary spellcaster might be a good option but the most important thing is that you like playing whatever you choose.
Why didn't you like your cleric? What were the things that you didn't like and wouldn't want for your new character?
A Paladin or Inquisitor could do the same "patching up", while being more potent in battle.
Another option you can take is rebuilding the character you have. What level are you? A cleric can be very effective in combat with a decent strategy and build. If your GM isn't against it you can remake your character.
A Paladin is definitely a good option as VRMH suggested.
To heal, pick a wand of cure light wounds so you don't have to use your own spells. That will relieve you from some spell slots.
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And I heard many horror stories about Paladins ruining the game for everyone else..
You'll hear lots of horror stories and other foregone conclusions about various classes. So-and-so isn't powerful enough. So-and-so is too powerful. So-and-so class ruins the game for everyone else, or is otherwise immoral to play. So and so class isn't "fun" (for certain narrow definitions of the word). So-and-so class/mechanic/system is inherently bad because it's possible for stupid players to abuse/misuse/misunderstand it.
There is a kind of informal "church of gaming" out there that appears to have coalesced in the last decade or so, whose adherents will insist on indoctrinating you into a very limited and stultifying way of thinking about the game, and respond with borderline-abuse you if you say no to them. Close your mind to them (not something I normally say, but definitely the right thing to do in this instance), play and enjoy the game and its various classes for yourself, and learn what YOU think. We were all inexperienced once. Have confidence and put your own judgment first.
Ratfolk, Catfolk, Lizardfolk...
Darkfolk Oracle
I'd say play a Sorcerer, something fun and flashy. You get to cast much more interesting spells than the cleric, things like create pit, grease, fly, dominate person, and fireball, so that could make it a lot more fun. You will also have a high charisma so you can max diplomacy and do the talking for the party to get more involved in the game.
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TL;DR don't listen to those naysayers, YOU figure out how to not have a miserable time through harsh experience.
Nice advice there.
Some actually *useful* advice would be that whether or not Paladins are workable depends on the GM and the party. Here is a (probably non-inclusive) list of things to look out for:
Party members
Evil Party members means Pallys are probably a no go. Unless there is a very strong reason for the party to be together and the evil character is willing to dial it way down, this is a recipe for disaster.
Belligerent/Chaotic/Mischievous/Generally Inflexible Party members can be a problem. The key thing here is if they are willing to tow the line when you come into serious conflict with them. If they are, you can probably work though the little things with them (some flexibility on your part would also be helpful). If they aren't, things have a pretty good chance of blowing up sooner or later (see Paladin vs CN Thief style relationships).
GM
Adversarial GMs will take your class as permission to make the universe #&^$ with you. Expect the GM to spring a fall on you at some stage, and there is basically nothing you can do about it. With such a GM, Pallys are probably a no-go.
Controlling GMs may beat you over the head with your Code in an attempt to get you to do things, or just because they disagree with you about something. With such a GM, Pallys are probably a no-go.
You should find out about how the GM views alignment and honor. Remember, the Paladin requires you stay generally Good, generally Lawful, and NEVER Evil (as well as always Honorable, which is itself a bucket of worms). How this works in practice is largely dependent on how your GM views the nitty gritty details of alignment, and how tightly they hold you to those details.
Campaign
Intrigue based games are a problem unless the GM lets you take an alternate code, because Paladins cannot lie.
GrimDark style Campaigns may put you and your party in a position where following the Paladin Code means Death or mission failure (with nasty consequences). Unless you enjoy falling, dying, causing death through moral inflexibility or having your party members betray you out of desparation, you might want to play something else.
That is all I can think of at the moment.
On the bright side, all of the above basically boils down to
a)Incompatible party members
b)alignment disagreements
c)A dick GM
d)campaign incompatibility with the Paladin Code
If you don't hit one of those four points, you will *probably* be fine.
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...TL;DR don't listen to those naysayers, YOU figure out how to not have a miserable time through harsh experience.
Nice advice there.
"Don't think, learn, or make decisions for yourself, or bad things are CERTAIN to happen to you!"
Encouraging insecure new players to be fearful and dependent-minded is definitely NOT nice advice.
Also, "TL;DR" is an inherently disrespectful meme, and it says nothing good about Internet subculture that it's caught on.
TL;DR: I disagree with your points and also hate the phrase TL;DR.
Did you even read what was actually said, or was it TL;DR?
Never knew what TL,DR means...
And I think we shouldn't be talking about belligerant party members and dick GMs here as nothing seems to indicate that the OP has that kind of trouble in his table. His concerns are about getting to enjoy his character while getting along well with his party. Cheers for him, that's how we all should think.
Getting this thread into another debate about whether paladins mean trouble or not will be of no use.
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Blame bad players when something goes sour, not the game itself, that's some pretty sound advice.
@Kileanna: It means "Too Long; Didn't Read" - like you couldn't be bothered to read what somebody else put obvious effort into, but it WAS worth your time to inform the poster and everyone else how dismissive you are of their thoughts and effort.
There's a more benign use of it where people will put it as a self-deprecating premise to summaries of their own long posts, but that, of course, is a secondary phenomenon, and while much more benign, I don't think it's a particularly good thing either.
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Picking a class you can feel the character for is certainly important when you're starting out. Browse the classes some more, I guess. There may be one rings some inner chime of yours for a clear character concept.
Clerics are interesting, roleplaying-wise, because so much of who they are depends on their patron deity and why the character is so devoted to It, as well as ways in which the PC is NOT like that deity. One way to improve your roleplaying a Cleric is to read more about whatever deity ith serves. If you're using the Golarion pantheon, there's quite a bit of published material to help with that.
That was to you, sir.
His advice regarding plying a paladin in a new group is very salient.
As I've already said, the build can be worked on if your GM allows it (if he does that with you he should allow other players do do some changes if they want, of course). But if it's the roleplaying aspect what doesn't sound appealing to you of course you should be trying something else. It happens to me all the time, cool classes that I'd try but that don't bring cool concepts to roleplay to my mind.
About TL,DR I aggree that it sounds dismissive. With my tendency to write useless lengthy posts I am surprised that I don't get that said to me more often. I don't usually revise my own posts because they are way too long and I feel lazy (TL,DR my own posts?)
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ANYTHING can be, and is, useful. The main thing you want to avoid is playing anything too similar to what another player's playing - and even that really isn't so bad. People WORRY about what won't work far more than there actually ARE things that don't work - funny thing about this game is that "in theory" is a lot more restrictive than "in practice." Most things can be made to. It's part of the fun.
One thing that really helps one learn the game safely and WITHOUT unhelpful editorials from others is to play the computer games (Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape: Torment, Neverwinter Nights, etc) - there are no Pathfinder computer games yet, and the older ones I mentioned use a substantially different system, but the Neverwinter Nights games are 3rd Edition and extremely similar to the Pathfinder system - and the older ones are just great games.
Catfolk Fey Trickster Mesmerist
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It was a pretty accurate summation.
I mean, if he took your advice at face value and ran into a new group with a paladin he could stand a firm chance of having a terrible experience... not to mention you just sort of brought it up out of nowhere, like, nobody was even trying to say there was badwrongfun going on or that any given class was somehow bad?
There's something to be said for some kind of church of said gaming badwrongfun, sure, but paladins are specifically known for having the highest per capita count of ruining either the experience of the person playing them or else the experiences of the rest of the table (depending on which side is the jerkface). They're like that one uncontrollable rage barbarian only they can see everything screwed everything up outside of battle too.
So, TL;DR: maybe also dont take advice from evil clowns hiding in your closet. I've seen that movie, it never ends well.
Catfolk Fey Trickster Mesmerist
I TAKE IT BACK.
This is badwrongfun. Don't do this.
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It was a pretty accurate summation.
I mean, if he took your advice at face value and ran into a new group with a paladin he could stand a firm chance of having a terrible experience... not to mention you just sort of brought it up out of nowhere, like, nobody was even trying to say there was badwrongfun going on or that any given class was somehow bad?
"Firm chance," nothing, bad players are more born than made - in OP's case, I sense the best advice ith needs is to trust ithself. Of all the bad players I've met, NONE of them have been in the "insecure but open-minded greenhorn" mold like OP. Gaming does NOT benefit from an organized culture. It's kind of like The Flying Dutchman as portrayed in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies, and best to avoid being assimilated.
Accurate! Unless he's playing a paladin, in which case he needs to know and trust implicitly both his GM and his fellow players to not be jerks. All it takes is one bad player st a table, and there's always that one guy.
You know him.
Greg? The one no one likes who never pays for pizza and is only there because you needed a fourth and then he just kept showing up? Always plays CN, and not in the interesting way?
God I hate that guy.
and why is that?Catfolk Fey Trickster MesmeristI TAKE IT BACK.
This is badwrongfun. Don't do this.
Because the ironic swerve from saying one thing and then immediately saying another made me laugh.
That's pretty much my rason d'etre.
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Just prior to this post I was talking about how nobody was trying to say there was badwrongfun, and then immediately I pause to say THERE IS BADWRONGFUN.
I don't know how to explain the joke beyond that.
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Just prior to this post I was talking about how nobody was trying to say there was badwrongfun, and then immediately I pause to say THERE IS BADWRONGFUN.
I don't know how to explain the joke beyond that.
Maybe that is because you were making a BADWRONGJOKE?
Maybe that is because you were making a BADWRONGJOKE?Just prior to this post I was talking about how nobody was trying to say there was badwrongfun, and then immediately I pause to say THERE IS BADWRONGFUN.
I don't know how to explain the joke beyond that.
Well played, snarkwyrm.
Well played.
Maybe that is because you were making a BADWRONGJOKE?Just prior to this post I was talking about how nobody was trying to say there was badwrongfun, and then immediately I pause to say THERE IS BADWRONGFUN.
I don't know how to explain the joke beyond that.
Well played, snarkwyrm.
Well played.
Damn Straight.
Is this the same Cleric of Iomedae with the rolled stats equivalent to a 33 point buy from the other thread? If so, shouldn't be a problem to keep -- make use of the really good stats and Craft Magic Arms and Armor that you already have, and try to boost both Dexterity AND Wisdom, and get Combat Reflexes, and read this Reach Cleric guide -- you aren't in a good position to go the summoning route, but you can use the rest of the strategy: cast other spells (especially buffs and battlefield control, the latter preferably avoiding enemies' strongest Saves) with your Standard Actions while making Attacks of Opportunity. Just remember (like others have said above): You are not a walking bandaid -- at least, not until after a fight is over (unless you have to cast an emergency healing spell to keep somebody from going down or remove a REALLY BAD debuff); keep in mind that the Investigator can also do some patching up after fights, so feel free to branch out.
The party is actually pretty well balanced with the character you have, except for being short on total 9/9 spellcasting (the Investigator can sort of stand in for the arcane spellcaster, but is 6/9; on the other hand, as noted above the Investigator can also do some patching up after fights).
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Accurate! Unless he's playing a paladin, in which case he needs to know and trust implicitly both his GM and his fellow players to not be jerks. All it takes is one bad player st a table, and there's always that one guy.
You know him.
Greg? The one no one likes who never pays for pizza and is only there because you needed a fourth and then he just kept showing up? Always plays CN, and not in the interesting way?
God I hate that guy.
We're starting to diverge on the things we're talking about now - as for trust, the trick is that it needs to come BEFORE knowing people, not after. Yes, that might seem scary, but contrary to what most people believe, it works out more often than not, and when it doesn't, it's as often as not the consequence of most people NOT being free with their trust. Take it from someone who has always gone through life living that way. "Greg" exists more as one poisonous memory than a real, reliable presence.
Speaking as someone who's lived the opposite, you have a 50-50 shot of getting screwed in any given case. The most defensible position seems to be a baseline of some trust (in line with assuming they have basic human decency, maybe) and then considering granting additional trust based on conversation and observation.
Blindly trusting people is a good way to get burned.
But never Greg.
Because nobody likes Greg.
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Blindly trusting people is a good way to get burned.
Not blindly, just generously. Innocent until proven guilty, grant benefit of the doubt, never make snap judgments. I've been in too many situations where people mistreated and unfairly restricted me out of a xenophobic and conservative mentality.
Besides, if you believe in "better safe than sorry," that does not make you much of an adventurer!
^On the other hand, it makes you more likely to make it through the adventure . . . .
If we're quoting platitudes, I'll see yours and raise you a 'once burned twice shy' and an 'every rose has its thorn.'
And I mean, I also don't generally murder little green things and root through their entrails for swag to sell. 'Not being a good adventurer' is, I think, a given.
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^On the other hand, it makes you more likely to make it through the adventure . . . .
What adventure? Take that mentality, you never go on one to begin with.
If we're quoting platitudes, I'll see yours and raise you a 'once burned twice shy' and an 'every rose has its thorn.'
The latter: Every rose has A RIGHT to its thorn. Other than that, I'm not sure what you mean.
The former: That's a defect Humanity has to overcome. It might have been useful once, but now it does far more harm than good.
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Catfolk Fey Trickster MesmeristI TAKE IT BACK.
This is badwrongfun. Don't do this.
Take the racial feat "black cat". Just on the theme of the evil clown.
Take the racial feat "black cat". Just on the theme of the evil clown.Catfolk Fey Trickster MesmeristI TAKE IT BACK.
This is badwrongfun. Don't do this.
You are my favorite person for the evening.
You are my favorite person for the evening.Take the racial feat "black cat". Just on the theme of the evil clown.Catfolk Fey Trickster MesmeristI TAKE IT BACK.
This is badwrongfun. Don't do this.
Fey Spell Lore and Fey Spell Versatility feats.
Beautiful boots and a hat with a pen are required!