So my party has left some enemies behind & I'm thinking of levelling them up to form an anti-party. All six members of the anti-party are humans with 15 str, 15 dex, 14 con, 12 int, 10 wis, and 8 cha before levelling up to 6th.
I'd need six classes for the following character themes:
1. A soft-spoken man whose calm demeanour should not be taken for passivity -
he enjoys the act of torture the most among the party, and often spends hours after a fight “exploring” surviving victims.
2. #1's younger brother - thinks people call him dirty because of his fighting style, but really it's more about his hygiene
3. An older, experienced mercenary who is calm (unnervingly so) in the face of violence. (the group's leader)
4. A fat man who never seems to lose weight despite the hard life he's lived and is rarely seen without food in his greasy hands
5. Probably the least favourite amongst the anti-party (but the favourite of #3), he has a tendency to report anything the others do to the leader
6. Was formerly a street poet but fled when after a sour affair - likes to romanticise the struggles of life.
If you've played/GM'ed Kingmaker you might recognise these as:
1. Ayles
2. Dirty Jeb
3. Falgrim Sneeg
4. Fat Norry
5. Jex the Snitch
6. Topper Red
If anyone has any recommendations I'd appreciate it - I know that most any class can be flavoured for any purpose, but I'm looking for classes that best fit the fluff & stats. 3rd party & 3.5/3.0 stuff is fine, so long as I can access it
*Edit: should be 5th level, not 6th - I was planning on giving them the lycanthrope template as well, and feeding them into another encounter
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Well, all of them having the exact same stats (and pretty bad ones at that) does constrain things a bit. It's one thing to pick classes that fit, but another to do so while creating a functional and at least somewhat balanced party.
I'd say a good way to get some party versatility in here is to make #1 a Vivisectionist Alchemist. It fits his concept, and although it leaves him a little tight on intelligence he should be able to meet the minimum requirements to access new extract levels. Beyond that, finding a way to get a Magus in this party would be very helpful, since that's another arcane caster class that isn't too dependent on a high intelligence score.
Getting a divine caster in here will be much trickier, as no one has a positive wisdom or charisma modifier. If you can somehow swap Intelligence and Wisdom then a battle Cleric might be doable in a pinch (probably 3) but with only 10 wisdom it isn't happening.
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I was going to say make one of them be a Witch with the right Patron and archetype(s) (and if the flavor matches), so that you can cover the requirement for a divine caster, even though Witch is technically arcane, but 12 Intelligence is just not enough. Of course, you could just rebuild their stats after they have an "accident" that probably occurs off-screen. Depending upon flavor, Living Grimoire Inquisitor could be another Intelligence-based option -- only 6/9 spellcasting, and you will need to cram every level-up ability score increase into Intelligence, but truly a divine caster, and doesn't have as high a requirement for Intelligence modifier as Witch to get spells (but feel free to have them pick up an Intelligence-boosting magic item if you want to boost their spell DC).
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One way I've considered making an 'anti-party' was to simply re-skin the players. Can I ask why those ability scores?
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Huh, I think the forum ate my post.
Do these guys have 5 levels already, gaining a 6th unique one?
The last of the guys obviously sounds like a Bard or Skald but Cha 8 makes that problematic. I'm thinking Brawler Examplar for bardic performance would be workable and reflect the poet background.
With decent Str and Dex, there can be both ranged and melee martials in the party. Magic will be harder, so you won't get a balanced party. I'd suggest that one of the guys takes levels in Magus so they get at least some magic.
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Those stats don't really make making 6 unique and flavorful NPCS easy
if you allowed us to take that as a pre racial stat array we could probably get somewhere. Assuming we had the stats to do it I would go.
1 - Alchemist
2 - Brawler
3 - Melee focused investigator or Slayer.
4 - No idea maybe a bloat mage.
5 - Unchained Rogue
6 - Bard
Wow! Thanks for the responses, I'll answer a few questions. For the stats, I'm basically extrapolating their stats from the basic NPC array to the heroic NPC array - though if you think it'd be better to just switch them around (fluff it as a mid-life crisis, idk) I might just do that.
The original NPCs were 1st level warriors, so their stats were befitting of their original role. This is admittedly for the Kingmaker campaign but the basic question seemed more general, hence the placement in the advice forum.
Heroic stat array is 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 - and humans (normally) have +2 to a stat {as I'm sure you're all very well aware}.
To answer Blymurkla's question about levels, they had one level of warrior before and I'm thinking of retraining them/levelling them to 5th & maybe adding the lycanthrope template.
Hope that clears the air a bit, and thank you again for the suggestions
woooo I almost didn't put anything for that one and then I was like... isn't bloat mage a thing?
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1-http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/ranger/archetypes/paizo-rang er-archetypes/trophy-hunter/
2-http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo-b arbarian-archetypes/urban-barbarian/
3-http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo-fig hter-archetypes/tactician/
4-http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/paizo-b arbarian-archetypes/raging-cannibal-barbarian-archetype/
5-http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue -archetypes/thug/
6-http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue -archetypes/swindler/
if you don't want to change the stat array i think this should work out nicely.
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Two alternatives that might not be out of the question.
A. Make the entire party Fighters with the Blackjack archetype, and give each of them a Variant Multiclass option. This'll help differentiate your characters, naturally form them into a cohesive team, and overcome the obvious shortcomings that their stats put them up against.
1. VM option of Sorcerer (Undead Archetype). Uses his limited use Grave Touch ability to Shaken or Frighten his victims (No Save), and then get's to work.
2. You want a uncouth smelly fighter? VM Witch with a Mauler Familiar, described as unkempt and smelling rank. If 7th level, either give him the Prehensile Hair hex (for a lethal, greasy disgusting ability) or the Mud Witch hex.
3. VM Inquisitor or Cavalier?
4. VM Oracle of Nature with Lifeleech, and go for the DC's Parasite vibe.
5. VMC Wizard of Divination. Always notices when someone else is approaching, which is good for an eavesdropper. Has a centipede familiar which goes unnoticed in a lot of situations and grants him a +3 to Stealth.
6. VMC Bard... i.e. the team Ministerl, overly dramatic, Versatile Performance is Oratory, allowing him to better excuse his "acts of passion" that got him into trouble in the first place.
Alternatively, you could have them recruited by an outside evil force, that puts them through torturous transformations. They would remain warriors of different levels, but each unique based on their new power set.
1. Jiang-Shi Vampire - Perfect for someone who's pleasure is slowly draining the will to live out of someone.
2. Ogrekin - Mind Broken, this guy is the dumb muscle of the team.
3. Half-Construct - Cold, Calculating: the unmoved monster that holds the team together.
4. Worm that Walks - (skip spellcasting req.), his once bloated skin is now nothing more than a shell for his true form.
5. A ghost, now bound to an item held by #3. Nothing says perfect spineless spy like natural invisibility, a lack of body to harm, and the ability to pass through walls at will. Maybe depict him as nothing more than a blurry shadow.
6. Nightmare template. He now forces his victims to live through twisted realities that end in a death riddled with a twisted poetic justice and irony.
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3-http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo-fight er-archetypes/tactician/
5-http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue-a rchetypes/thug/
6-http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/rogue/archetypes/paizo-rogue-a rchetypes/swindler/
if you don't want to change the stat array i think this should work out nicely.
Linkified.
Hmmm, these definitely sound interesting. I might go with Anonymous Warrior's suggestion for the party setup, as prep time is reduced if I only have to deal with one class (& VMC options). The other templates sound interesting, though I might not use them right away - let the party get used to the anti-party before the anti-party morphs into something else
What would you guys think of for fighting styles? #2 I think is just 2-Handed, but I'm unsure as to the others
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So my party has left some enemies behind & I'm thinking of levelling them up to form an anti-party. All six members of the anti-party are humans with 15 str, 15 dex, 14 con, 12 int, 10 wis, and 8 cha before levelling up to 6th.
I'd need six classes for the following character themes:
1. A soft-spoken man whose calm demeanour should not be taken for passivity -
he enjoys the act of torture the most among the party, and often spends hours after a fight “exploring” surviving victims.2. #1's younger brother - thinks people call him dirty because of his fighting style, but really it's more about his hygiene
3. An older, experienced mercenary who is calm (unnervingly so) in the face of violence. (the group's leader)
4. A fat man who never seems to lose weight despite the hard life he's lived and is rarely seen without food in his greasy hands
5. Probably the least favourite amongst the anti-party (but the favourite of #3), he has a tendency to report anything the others do to the leader
6. Was formerly a street poet but fled when after a sour affair - likes to romanticise the struggles of life.
If you've played/GM'ed Kingmaker you might recognise these as:
** spoiler omitted **If anyone has any recommendations I'd appreciate it - I know that most any class can be flavoured for any purpose, but I'm looking for classes that best fit the fluff & stats. 3rd party & 3.5/3.0 stuff is fine, so long as I can access it
*Edit: should be 5th level, not 6th - I was planning on giving them the lycanthrope template as well, and feeding them into another encounter
As others said before, the elite array does use those stats, but not necessarily in that order. You can place them however you like to fit the classes of the characters. Otherwise, Paizo could never print NPC's of a good number of classes that were functional enough to be a challenge to PC's unless they got a tremendous racial boost to int, wis,or cha.
Oh don't worry, I know that the stats don't have to be in order. If they were in order (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) then Dex would be 16 and Con would be 13.
The stats are 15, 15, 13, 12, 10, 8 because the original stats were 13, 13, 11, 10, 9, 8; I leveled the NPCs from the basic array to the heroic array and kept the +2 racial bonus in Dex.
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1. Inquisitor. Is there a torture inquisition or archetype?
2. Brawler/Rogue. Give him the troglodyte Stench ability.
3. Cavalier. Bend the rules and let him grant lots of different Teamwork feats.
4. Bloatmage. Let him spontaneously cast grease.
5. Rogue or Slayer or Ranger w/ Hunters Bond to share Favored Enemy stuff.
6. Bard or Skald, also give him Improved Aid Another stuff.
Have them synergize Teamwork Feats, Favored Enemy, and Bard/Skald Inspiration, along with lots of flanking and Aid Another.
As a thank you, here is my progress on the 6 members thus far - let me know if you can't access the documents.
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^Although I did confirm that they have some different characteristics, by the artwork, they look like clones(*) . . . also, one of them (I think the 3rd or 4th, forgot which) has no alignment at all).
(*)Pack of Troubleshooters, perhaps?
Ah, yes - sorry about the artwork, it's a holdover from the default sheet I use (they don't all look the same). Thanks for the update on the alignment, they should all be Neutral Evil
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In a previous campaign, I came up with an anti-party (lieutenants of a BBEG) to look at some of the "new" classes that had just been announced. Mind you, this was many years ago.
My 6 PCs were level 8 at the time (APL 9 due to 6 players). I think I made the NPCs level 6 (CR 10 encounter)? Anyway, the NPCs were:
cavalier (mounted), inquisitor (archer), wizard (evoker), alchemist (bomber), cleric of Abadar (nothing too special), and monk.
This group, because they were NPCs and could nova for their one and only encounter during the day plus they had time to buff due to a previous encounter, nearly murdered my party of PCs. I rp'd the neutral monk to remove him from the encounter because he would have tipped the scales in the NPCs favor and likely caused a TPK.
The cavalier never got off her big hit. The party wisely took her mount out from under her. The inquisitor was murdering the PCs. The alchemist helped and the wizard added some damage, but it was really the archer inquisitor that was putting the hurt on the party.
I found it to be a very satisfactory encounter as the DM.