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For the Trog cave, I am inclined to have the Trogs kidnap some of the refugees for sacrifice, and the PCs then have to go down to rescue them.
I'm thinking of getting rid of Aubrin's peg-leg. One disability is enough, I think, especially since the peg-leg is just thrown in there as being a birth defect and doesn't mechanically impact her character at all.
Either that, or, I'll have it impose a -5ft movement penalty and have her describe it as a war injury; when a Molthune captain chopped her foot off during a battle. That would mean she's been maimed in battle not once, but twice. Anyone who's still alive and kicking after that obviously means business.
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Alternatively, Nirmathas is Golarion's Robin-Hood analogue, so you could go with Sherwood Forest in winter, however you picture that.
Gonna keep saying "Switzerland" (or more precisely, the Forest Cantons) until people remember.
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Thank you! I'm glad I'm not the only one. :-)
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The name is entirely fictitious, so technically there's no wrong way to say it. I've been pronouncing it "fey-AN-der" but Nirmathi are notoriously independent, and I imagined the pronunciation of the town's name is a hot-button topic of discussion for locals.I got my shipping e-mail this afternoon and went looking for a place to ask questions as I read. :)Like, how do you pronounce Phaendar?
It's spelled P-H-A-E-N-D-A-R, but it's pronounced "Ar-Kansas."
* * * ALTERNATE JOKE * * *
It's spelled P-H-A-E-N-D-A-R, but it's pronounced "Throat-Wobbler Mangrove."
Regarding the refugees and the skill checks to be made to hunt, build shelter, herd animals, etc. - can the NPCs or the PCs take 10 or 20 on these checks?
I didn't see anything directly allowing or disallowing it in the Survival section of the AP.
Regarding the refugees and the skill checks to be made to hunt, build shelter, herd animals, etc. - can the NPCs or the PCs take 10 or 20 on these checks?
I didn't see anything directly allowing or disallowing it in the Survival section of the AP.
Unless the AP says otherwise, taking 10 or taking 20 should work as normal:
Taking 10: When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure—you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn't help.
Taking 20: When you have plenty of time, you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, if you roll a d20 enough times, eventually you will get a 20. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.
Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes 20 times as long as making a single check would take (usually 2 minutes for a skill that takes 1 round or less to perform).
Since taking 20 assumes that your character will fail many times before succeeding, your character would automatically incur any penalties for failure before he or she could complete the task (hence why it is generally not allowed with skills that carry such penalties). Common "take 20" skills include Disable Device (when used to open locks), Escape Artist, and Perception (when attempting to find traps).
For most (almost all, really) of the checks, taking 10 will be fine. Taking 20, because of the "negative consequences" for failure (raw materials ruined on craft rolls that fail by 5 or more) or time limits (taking 20 on foraging or hunting checks would take 20 days), will probably not be useful in most cases.
Good point on the 10 vs 20.
Some of the tasks say they take an hour or more, so 20 times as long is not acceptable. The point about ruined material is also important.
Thanks.
Has anyone gotten a good feel for how to integrate the milita system
into the book?
Has anyone gotten a good feel for how to integrate the milita system
into the book?
It looks like the militia system gets introduced in later books. Without owning Lands of Conflict, I haven't had a chance to explore it in detail.
Finished session one, running online via ttop. Very martial and mounted party.
Had a tourney to start sessions to get festival feel
Invasion began
Visited all locations in the town plus extra action at a stable.
Escaped over bridge and blew it up
Ended on quick respite while the party make plans, and level up.
Very good start
Finished session 2, at the Trog Caverns. Had discussion with players as to whether they wanted to level again, as suggested in the book
Been a great romp of an adventure so far
Concern on Encounter B1 & B2 (the burning Smithy).
For some reason I completely forgot about the fire. In hindsight, maybe that's for the best. IMHO I don't think the hobgoblins would just destroy a perfectly good smithy that's also the only stone building in town (and also has a lot of weapons stored in). It led to a great roleplay opportunity as the PCs tried to convince Kining to leave town (she was convinced that she could deal with the hobgoblins as a valuable blacksmith and implied she collaborated with Molthuni invaders in the past). It's always fun to see PCs working their hearts out for something they really don't want to succeed (they pretty much hate Kining).
You're forgetting the refugees.
Regardless of what choices you've made, you have at least a handful of people to assist you. Even if the Smithy is the 1st place you go after the inciting event, you'll be packing 5 refugees at least.
The AP specifically states that these refugees are to be viewed as helpful tools for the PCs to use when they need to. I think this is a perfect opportunity for that!
Also, the door can be broken. In the game I'm running for my family, the monk broke the door on his first attempt. I know that's not super easy (DC 20 for standard door) but it's easier than 25.
But I really think they intended for you to make use of the refugees if you don't have magic to assist (Create Water).
Concern on Encounter B1 & B2 (the burning Smithy).
The math on this one seems flawed:
The PCs have 7 rounds to fight three hobgoblins and either put out the fire or open the door and get the people out.
Putting out the fire seems impossible. On Round 1 it is in 1 square with a 50% chance each round to spread. It takes 12 gallons to put out (create water is 2 gallons per casting at level 1). The nearby water is four 3-gallon buckets, that probably take at least three move actions to use. So the fire will spread during the first 1-3 rounds as the PCs deal with the combat, and then be impossible to stop (it would take an entire 4-person party two rounds to put out one square, best-case).
The door is a DC 25 strength check. No one is opening that one on the first round. You need to have someone roll a Natural 18-20 with at least two assists, and you only have 2-3 rounds to try it.
Seems like everyone in this place is murdered by the math of the encounter and the action economy of pathfinder.
Unless I missed something...
I'm having trouble visualizing (and thus describing) the wooden supports for the bridge. How can a person plant the "bomb" or damage it from the top of the bridge?
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The bridge is a stone arch supporting solid walls of stone and a horizontal set of flagstones (that constitute the surface of the bridge itself). As with any arch, the keystone controls the combined forces of the entire archway, maintaining them in equilibrium. Kining has removed the keystone from the western arch and replaced it with wooden support framing to produce the same effect, but the wood can be far more easily destroyed than the stone. The framing is probably no more than a handful of feet below the bridge surface, so you can probably just climb over the bridge's walls, onto the crane, and kneel down to reach the keystone replacement woodwork.
Once the wooden framework replacing the archway is destroyed, the arch itself will collapse, which in turn will cause the entire western half of the bridge to collapse. That causes the bridge to break down, tilting toward the west, before collapsing entirely.
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Sounds like somebody's destroyed a bridge before. :-)
The framing is probably no more than a handful of feet below the bridge surface, so you can probably just climb over the bridge's walls, onto the crane, and kneel down to reach the keystone replacement woodwork.
Thanks for the comprehensive response, that's what I had in mind. I had researched a bit about keystones and arches, but couldn't figure what the wooden support would look like. I found a video about a similar repair and extracted this simple image, if anyone is interested.
Your image isn't working for me. Is it anything similar to this?
Yours is way better. Thank you.
So my PCs just escaped the town and blew the bridge. Next session they're going to start Part 2. One question, I have been wondering about is for the majority of this first adventure and maybe the second as well, how are you going to handle loot and equipment? Specifically it doesn't seem like there's anywhere for them to trade, buy things, etc. Once they get set up in a base, it seems like Kining and Vane could craft some stuff for them or PCs could use their own craft abilities, but for the first and second AP module, I just don't see a lot of opportunity for them to equip themselves beyond just using the gear they find. I am just wondering if I overlooked something, or if I should maybe change out some of the loot to things that might better suit my party. Like for instance, no one in my party is a class that uses medium or heavy armor, so I am wondering if I should change some of the armors they find to light armors or some of the weapons they'll encounter to items they are more proficient with.
Any advice?
I'd tweak the treasure to suit your party. :-)
I'm in the same boat, as far as lighter armor preferences. :-)
Tweak to match the pcs as you should always do
I made a hex map of the forest at 2.5 mile width per hex and let them have a mini hexplore.
My PCs just got out of Phaender and we're about to start Part 2. Question for those who have got past that or at least read ahead: How are you handling all the potential encounters in Part 2, roll for them or something else? Also trying to figure out when to start up the Militia system for them. Any pointers would be grand.My PCs have just started to explore The South Chernasardo Forest, I let them pick a direction and go. They found the Wasp Orchard first and set up a temporary camp there. It will become very clear to them soon that it won't be safe there for long.
A few good things to do, make sure you read all of the events, some of them give a general idea of when they should happens. Then start to map them out on a rough timeline.
For instance: Bridge Explosion > Night 1 > Edran E1 > Explorations > Day 3 Mutilated body ECT...
I am showing my players a totally blank map of the woods so it really doesn't matter where I choose to put the encounters as long as you make it logical. I did limit them to 8 miles a day, with 4 miles if they look for food.
I did something similar to this - created a timeline and slotted in events. If the party "bunkers down" on a day, they might miss that day's event.
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I've read the first three parts of the adventure, and I'm enjoying it so far, more than I thought I would. I thought the first part was especially well done, with lots of guidance on what to do if your players made various choices.
The second part I was less sure about, because the resource and shelter tracking, including behavior from 20 NPC-level mooks, seemed rather tedious to me. I liked the variety of adventures, though.
Third part doesn't sit right with me. I know that troglodytes (which I often accidentally call trogdolytes---which sounds like trog-delights---much to everyone's amusement) are usually chaotic evil, but just going in and killing sentient beings to steal their shelter doesn't sit right with me. I know the players don't HAVE to, but the alternative is no shelter. I think if I were to run it, I'd put more troglodyte encounters in part 2. That way it looks like, "Huh, the troglodytes are a threat to us. We better root them out at the source. And oh, hey, these caves might make for decent shelter."
my thought would be to have the caravan be troglodyte staffed rather than hobgoblin. after all, the hobgoblins aren't going to be running a caravan through the forest, but the troglodytes might well be running one OUT of it towards the Ironfang Legion. the horses can be big lizards or something.
I assumed the troglodytes had harassed forest workers in the past. They would clearly drag any human they found down to the priest and have a terrible doom. And be lunch.
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My Group finished the Escape last session. I Made them create NPC Relatives to replace some of the Generic NPCs in town. This made them Hurry from encounter to encounter, and they left Most of the supplies/ magical gear. They also didn't take the time to save the 2 merchants, and the 2 hunters, escaping with a total of 14 refugees (including the main NPCS).
I had some of the Survivors bring the previsions left behind, but skipped most of the passed over loots.
To Complicate the story for our bard, His favorite barmaid came to him about being with child right before the Hobs kicked in the door and Shot Aurbin.
Party makeup:
1/2 elf Bard
1/2 Ranger
1/2 Orc Druid
Human alchemist
Human Paladin
Human Cleric
Human Arcanist
Hey folks,
I just started to GM this online, through roll20.
I'd like to know if there's a way to buy the maps for the adventure. I know there's the map folio, but I couldn't find the pdf version of it.
Thanks!
Maps are extractable from the PDF. If you're using the hardcopy, Paizo sells interactive map packs for their APs which include all the maps, but I believe they aren't available until all 6 parts of the AP have been released.
(There will be a PDF of the Map Folio, but it won't be available until July. Also, it doesn't include all the adventure maps but is rather made up of three large poster maps.)
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Hi Everyone,
I have gone through about 7 sessions so far of Iron Fang Invasion (started playing the week it came out on Roll20) and have gathered a great group to play with. So far this has been one of my favorite APs to run, its straight forward, but as a GM there are enough story lines and things to have a very fun and flavorful campaign. Having 20-30 refugee NPCs seems daunting at first, but populating the band of Phaender survivors and roleplaying their bonds forming with the PC's seems like it will be very rewarding down the line.
So far my game groups consists currently of a Half-Orc Paladin, a human Warlock, a Dwarf Inquisitor of the Green Faith, and half-elf Druid and Bard (if any of you happen to be reading this, wtf are you doing here, spoilers are ahead!). Escaping Phaender took two games, and they have been knocking out events in part 2, random encounters, and protecting the NPCs with aplomb so far. We are almost down with the Troglodyte cave, and I am hoping to finish book one in 2 or 3 more sessions.
I thought I'd share my answers to some thoughts in the thread so far:
"For the Trog cave, I am inclined to have the Trogs kidnap some of the refugees for sacrifice, and the PCs then have to go down to rescue them."
This is a good for a few of the encounters in this game. If you want to up the menace level bring the fight to the PC's or the refugees of Phaender. My party will not for the life of them go to the Wolf Lair, so the mite raiding party is coming to their camp. You can do this with a few of the enemies in part 2.
"Third part doesn't sit right with me. I know that troglodytes (which I often accidentally call trogdolytes---which sounds like trog-delights---much to everyone's amusement) are usually chaotic evil, but just going in and killing sentient beings to steal their shelter doesn't sit right with me. I know the players don't HAVE to, but the alternative is no shelter. I think if I were to run it, I'd put more troglodyte encounters in part 2. That way it looks like, "Huh, the troglodytes are a threat to us. We better root them out at the source. And oh, hey, these caves might make for decent shelter.""
I think that if you want to let your PC's have their cake and eat it too, make two sects or social ranks of Troglodytes. Maybe Ressh and Sesslok are evil warriors caste, and many of the other Troglodytes under Ighiz are enslaved or somehow oppressed. The evil trogs were the ones that sacrificed the Elf, whereas the other Trogs could do nothing but watch the sick ceremony. This allows your PC's to kill some and spare others. If afterwards they want to share the caves with the erstwhile slaves then they can, or maybe the slaves decide to leave on their own.
My PC's are going full Paragon in this section, and so are stabilizing fallen Troglodytes, and are going to reason with Ighiz. I am going to make it a hard Diplomacy check like is suggested in the book, but even if they make friends with Ighiz the Caves are still not in the PC's hands. If they are able to open the Excavator door this will cause another Trog priestess to usurp Ighiz as a false prophet, and take control, leading her people away from the caverns that Ighiz despoiled thus leaving it open for the PCs. Maybe Ighiz will take Handiss and some others and attack the PC's at some point, who knows, but leaving characters open is a great possibility for some revenge plot lines later on.
A few good things to do, make sure you read all of the events, some of them give a general idea of when they should happens. Then start to map them out on a rough timeline.
For instance: Bridge Explosion > Night 1 > Edran E1 > Explorations > Day 3 Mutilated body ECT...
This is a great suggestion and one that I put in place. Pick a day of the Golarion calendar your festival began in Phaender as 'Day 0', and then mark future evens on it, and use it to keep track of the story so far. We're on day 10 so far
Also, I made up an entire page for NPCs in order to keep track of their names, class levels and relationships to each other and the PCs. Aubrin has a crush on the warlock that tends her wounds, a commoner boy wants to squire for the Paladin, and Lirosa and Taidel have befriended our half-elf Bard
One question, I have been wondering about is for the majority of this first adventure and maybe the second as well, how are you going to handle loot and equipment?
After a while, I had Jett set up a barter/trading post for the Refugee encampment, buying items from PC's for store credit and the like. I am making the encampment function as a Village with a higher chance to find many items. My reasoning is that the refugees got a lot of loot out of Phaender while they escaped, and also can scavenge stuff as they explore the forest, so they have the capability to restock a store. Meanwhile the party can find a good deal of magical loot, don't forget to throw some random encounters in. Use NPC's to brew potions and craft armor, that's what a lot of the NPCs are their for.
How are you handling all the potential encounters in Part 2, roll for them or something else? Also trying to figure out when to start up the Militia system for them. Any pointers would be grand.
It was said before that they pick a cardinal direction, and I make them make a Survival check to find hints of what lays ahead, like Wolf tracks to the north or the clearing with the cabin to the east.
I think the militia should start right away, with Kining Blondebeard or Aubrin leading combat training for the refugees, but have them come together as a unit towards the end of the adventure. From then on out if you throw a random encounter at the refugee's camp sites you can have play around with militia combat in book 2
ambush Scarvinious while he is out patrolling. Assuming they kill the bugbear and his bugbear guards, What do you think will happen to camp redjaw with out their military commander?
I think this is fine, but I believe it says he would retreat if he was ambushed to the safety of the hobgoblin camp. This would either make attacking the camp a little harder or the next time he comes out he brings nearly everyone with him to hunt the PC's down. If they can kill Scarvinious, I would make another hobgoblin Sargent take up the banner, and either attack the PC's at their home, or defensively hold the camp, and await reinforcements. Regardless, you should try and force the PC's that the camp has to be shut down.
I hope some of these thoughts we helpful, I'm very excited to start book 2 as it looks harrowing and fun, but if you haven't read book three that's when things really start looking fun in Longshadow.
My PCs are planning to** spoiler omitted **
What do you all think? thanks
Well, I would establish a timeline. Due to the militarized nature of hobgoblins (and the army structure of the Ironfang Legion), they probably have a very clear chain of command - any time the sergeant Scarvinious leaves the camp, a lesser ranked officer assumes the leadership (I'd say Yissti since she's the only named NPC apt for the job).
Within a day she should be notified of Scarvinious prolonged absence, and she would then dispatch both a tracking team to find out what happened to him (he is the Scabvistin's son, so learning his fate is kinda important) and a messenger to Phaendar requesting reinforcements and further instructions. The camp would be somewhat vulnerable (understaffed but on high alert) for a couple days while reinforcements arrive. The reinforcements would be led by a Hobgoblin Sergeant from Monster Codex, and include some soldiers (as detailed on page 50).
But maybe due to her background (she hoped to be a warrior, and probably craves military recognition), Yissti doesn't send for Phaendar, hoping to find Scarvinious' killers and deliver them to his father as a great accomplishment. She is smarter than normal, so she wouldn't just abandon the camp's defensible position to hunt the PCs in the woods (their element). She sends scouts to locate and kidnap some survivors (preferably a hunting/gathering group), and the next day she sends a clear message: a finger from each, along with a letter promising to cut one more each day. She hopes to lure the angry PCs to the defensible position of the camp. Her only flaw is arrogance: she triples the guard rounds to increase security, but they get progressively tired as a result. The PCs could find a more alert camp, but one where most of the hobgoblins are fatigued.
Has anyone had PCs who thought of using Create Water? How do you handle that?
Has anyone had PCs who thought of using Create Water? How do you handle that?
Yeah, I think water as Provisions falls apart really fast. Aubrey even has create water prepared. It makes me believe water isn't supposed to be a problem and shouldn't count for Provisions.
Has anyone had PCs who thought of using Create Water? How do you handle that?Yeah, I think water as Provisions falls apart really fast. Aubrey even has create water prepared. It makes me believe water isn't supposed to be a problem and shouldn't count for Provisions.
This is really a big hole in the second part. Aubrin can cast create water all day and all night. Of course, with Event 2 in mind, there are only a set number of vessels to hold the water.
With that in mind, I'm not going to worry about water, but allow Aubrin to spend time during each evening while setting up camp to provide 2 Provision Points worth of water. Unless he is otherwise occupied in healing, etc.
Third part doesn't sit right with me. I know that troglodytes (which I often accidentally call trogdolytes---which sounds like trog-delights---much to everyone's amusement) are usually chaotic evil, but just going in and killing sentient beings to steal their shelter doesn't sit right with me. I know the players don't HAVE to, but the alternative is no shelter. I think if I were to run it, I'd put more troglodyte encounters in part 2. That way it looks like, "Huh, the troglodytes are a threat to us. We better root them out at the source. And oh, hey, these caves might make for decent shelter."
Easy fix, if you think this will be a problem for your crew. Have a couple of your refugees disappear overnight, and by dawn the players discover tracks leading back to the trog-delights' lair. Then it becomes a rescue mission.
Has anyone run camp redjaw yet? I have no idea how PCs will approach this and am curious to see how other people have ran it.