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Where did Cap'n Contrarian go?


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Brother Fen wrote:
Buyancy rules have been available in the Cerluean Seas supplement for years. They work quite well. No need for a "sky is falling" thread every single time a new rule gets rolled out for the masses.

GMs who don't like 3rd party stuff / prefer official Paizo rules, PFS, etc...


Robert Minter 298 wrote:
Hmmm interesting, I have a few players who would really like the ability to buy a few magic items. My current plan is to make her not have what they want on her when she shows up, and she'll have to go on an expedition for a few weeks before she gets the goods. When is their next opportunity to purchase items? I didn't really notice one until longshadow, besides the weird militia "black market" rules and stuff. We have an arcanist who can't use like any of the "wizard" loot, so he's complaining a bit, haha.

I think she shows up every week or month, and does say she could find a few things for the PCs... probably paid upfront.


thenovalord wrote:

We all had a brief chat and decided as a group the arrival of an npc merchant was a tad too cheesy so we haven't bothered with it

It's a very nice change not having a magic shop

More a peddler than a full shop.


thenovalord wrote:

many of the npcs should have 1-4 hp and be children and youths.

They wont survive a 150 mile trek in the open to Tamran

Never mind the open, even in the wild they would have a very hard time with Animals, Magical Beasts, Aberrations, Plants, Monstrous Humanoids, Feys, Undeads, etc...


Juda de Kerioth wrote:
when this will be downlodeable?

Within a few minutes to about an hour, unless it need to be manually enabled.

Edit: Out now.


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Ram Gate massacre was about two years before II start, and a few days or weeks before the Ironfang "just vanished". The Ironfang was active for a few years, exact timing weren't given.


Fenrick Talon wrote:
MindXing wrote:
I'm getting ready to start book one and, knowing my group, I'm anticipating one of the questions. Once they get out of Phaendar with a bunch of survivors they are almost certain to ask why they can't just abandon the survivors. They will see them as more mouths to feed and more people to take care of.

My approach was to NOT have any nameless NPC's. I stressed to all of my players to have a tie to the town and to provide me with their friends and family members.

I then detailed about 60 named NPC's, many whom the player's helped create. I printed them all out like trading cards, and in the prequels they have had the opportunity to interact with many of them. During the invasion, I have replaced all the instances of NPC's at the event locations with these trading cards, and as the players make their way through the town they will have options to rescue people and collect their cards. I have several staged encounters where the party will have to make choices on who to save, along with some dramatic moments with their various mentors. This way by the time they make it out, they can hang all the people they save on a whiteboard I have by the table to SEE the good they did.

A very interesting approach.

Brother Fen wrote:
This adventure path is about the party becoming true heroes of the realm and actually trying to help those in need.

The AP doesn't disallow Evil PCs, but I get the point.


pixierose wrote:
I have a question how far back ago was the Ironfang active and when exactly was the ram-gate massacre.

Do you have the book?


Can we go back to character themes now?

If you have any issues with casters, casting and the like, just make a thread for it.


Dragon78 wrote:
I would rule that (most) mind-affecting effects would work on every player race regardless of creature type though most of the other immunities I am fine with. But I agree about polymorph, never understood why plants where immune to that one.

For PF, Backward compatibility with DnD 3.5?


Arknight wrote:

Sounds interesting....

4d6
4d6
4d6
4d6
4d6
4d6
Not bad.... I can work with those....

Would a Chakram Dervish for a finesse type of Fighter work?

when dropping the lowest:

12
13
12
16
11
9


Necroing for the different questions already asked.

Also, would be nice if this was in "My Downloads" in a permanent fashion.


Some Mysteries give Full Martial Weapon Proficiencies.

Are we talking about some variant Eldritch Knight? Bacause I'm not sure how the Oracle can meet the other requirement...

Edit:

Dark Midian wrote:
Anyway, Hogeyhead, the entire idea of eldritch knight is that you're supposed to multiclass a full BAB class and a full arcane caster.

Aristocrat is 3/4 BaB


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I wonder if we will get Clawed Gauntlet, similar to the "Demon Talon" (from Book of the Damned) and the "Claw Gauntlet" (from Horror Adventures)? maybe with mechanics similar to them, outside of being grafts.


1) Going by This, your saves should probably be different.

2) Ability Scores?

3) also, part of that build only work when unarmored or lightly armored.


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Some of you might want to check this thread as well. :)


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@Ckorik, if you want to talk about RotR and CotCT, please make a thread for it and stop derailing this one.

K?

Thanks!

Bye!


DM waz up? wrote:
And I apologise that I didn't address any other questions. I am not able to respond to everything especially since there are quite a few of you all asking.

Read them, and pick those which seems like good idea to answer at Character Creation, like the ability scores adjustments for age categories.

Edit #2: compiled some...

Wade Willhelm:
1) Do aasimars also get to do the whole roll three times thing?

Guy St-Amant: Now for my usual Questions:
2) Templates? Nevermind.
3) Young Characters?
4) Ability Scores adjustment by age categories, does it work core rules or more like PFS?
5) DnD 3.5 Unearthed Arcana Generic Classes?


Rhedyn wrote:
Lostcause78 wrote:
If I were a conspiracy man, I'd start to think Rhedyn was the player in question.

You're fake news!

/devils advocate off

Guy sounded like a t#~~ but I hate one sided internet hate parties. I've played many of evil character before, but I have two rules:

1. The party is your ally.

2. You know right from wrong. You are not ignorantly evil.

I've never had a problem like in the op. It behooves the evil character to metagame a bit rather than ask the party to make up reasons to adventure with you. Evil characters who don't know what they are doing should be dead long before they ever enter the party. Stupid evil is for wild monster. CE characters are great for messing with everyone's sense of right or wrong.
I had one evil character run around fabricating homeless shelters and working fields with constructs that he knew would one day fall to ruin after attracting a large unsustainable population to rapidly go hungry and homeless for a small town. He didn't make any effort to teach farming skills so no one complained about him taking care of the poor or leaving to "save the world" but the town was then ravaged by a hungry mob.
Adventuring is great for CE characters. You get to commit genocide (goblins) for little reason and people pay/love you for it.

Sounded like neither the player nor his PCs knew those rules, and TC mentioned previous DM/GM/ST let the player do that, so the player came to see that as "normal". There could be mental illnesses involved, but this isn't a place for that kind of discussion.


Derek Dalton wrote:
The first problem was allowing him to dictate terms as he did. I'm playing A and you have to accept it. No, no I don't and no GM should either. The second is allowing him to continue dictating terms. He demands he be allowed to continue his crap even after several in and out of game discussions. Why? Because he wants to have fun regardless if anyone else is. No, it doesn't work like that. It's obvious when told to play nice the guy gets worse. The obvious solution is boot him and don't ever invite him back. The guy is toxic let him be toxic elsewhere. If life were fair he'd end up being toxic all alone.
Mystic_Snowfang wrote:

well if you don't want to kick him, which is the best choice, you should simply try how my fiance does. Tell them, okay but I am not going to force my players to metagame. I've only played evil once (cleric of Zon Kuthon)... they scared me and I quickly changed them.

But they really do sound like a problem.

While easy to say, this isn't always easy to do, if some players are only there because he/she is and/or if you are playing at his/her/their place, expect said player to go on a power trip most of the time, same if they are the bully type.

@Rhedyn, You are in the wrong thread for doing any tl;dr.


Monkeygod wrote:
Verzen wrote:

I personally hope it's not "wild shape" at all.

I hope it's more so of a hybrid form. I want to transform into a werewolf. I don't want to transform into a wolf.

I want to transform into a half demon, half human. Not a full blown demon.

So on and so forth. Hybridize. That's one reason I dislike wildshape. I have to transform into something that's not human-like.

Curious, but why not both?

The hybridization seems perfect for low levels, with claws, elemental resist, darkvision, natural armor, being a decent way to be a half demon, but then at higher level, allowing a change into a more full demon. But still also continuing to gain more partial shifting options.

You could then split these paths into archetypes/PrCs, giving up the one option to focus on the other.

I don't think he/she means that kind of Hybridization.


DM waz up? wrote:

Undead continued: okay, along these lines I will allow Undead as long as the base race is a non-monster race, and it drops the point buy to 15, to compensate for the increased Stats and lack of Constitution. So long as the CR added doesn't pass 2.

Although the reason I'm hesitant about this is that you are kidnapped in the first book to join a Crew... I don't think a captain would think grabbing a skeleton or Something worse would be very smart of them...

Alternatively you can be revied in-game as undead instead of through the standard spells. Of course this implies someone can do that.

In regards to that, I will also allow for inherited lycanthrope following the same rules except it has 20pt instead of 15.

That one I would say could vary depending on what class(es) they pick, how they would play, and if they intent on always be in Hybrid form... Fullcasters, Int casters and Wis casters can gain a s***load of with "Always in Hybrid Form" other classes, not as much, unless you modify the rules for stats changes when transformed.


Verzen wrote:

I personally hope it's not "wild shape" at all.

I hope it's more so of a hybrid form. I want to transform into a werewolf. I don't want to transform into a wolf.

I want to transform into a half demon, half human. Not a full blown demon.

So on and so forth. Hybridize. That's one reason I dislike wildshape. I have to transform into something that's not human-like.

To each their own.

But your comment is interesting and bring a point that is food for thoughts.


Neurophage wrote:
TheAlicornSage wrote:
Honestly, I agree that for a highly magical world where anyone could potentially learn magic, only an idiot would try to be a soldier without knowing magic.
This is one of the assumptions I'd want to correct. It's not really important to any kind of point I'd try to make, but it's more for the purpose of making sure we're talking about the same things. I say "magic" and people immediately assume "spells." I'm talking about spells being only one possible expression of magic. If the world itself is magical, then every thing, every being is also magical. Even every action, once elevated to a certain level of power, would be obviously magical. If your ability with a sword has reached the point where you can carve a hole through a castle wall with one swing, is your swordsmanship any less a practice of magic than creating an explosion through canting an incantation and tracing runes with your hands? In a world that is itself magical, a person can learn a spell if that's how their magic works, but they can't "learn" magic any more than a person can "learn" physical existence.

Something, something about the strength of Magic outside of spells.

^ that would be my guess.

the arbitrary values of different class features compared to each others don't help either.


1) Remove Vancian casting, use magic (or whatever) points, 9th level aren't merely costing 9 MPs, class level dictate what one can or cannot cast.

2) Rework combat, give active (read "need rolling") Block, Dodge and Parry, CMD now requires rolling... this make Armor as DR and being Light Armored (and some feats)more viable.

3) Fix Skill points per Level and lists of Class Skills.

4) Untie Energy Channeling and Cure/Inflict, Heal/Harm spells from Alignments.

5) More Feats that scale up with levels, less feat "trees", and no more stupid feats requirements for something a 3 PB Lvl 1 Commoner should be able to do.


BMO wrote:
Don't you have to be within one alignment step of the god you worship?

That's what I was pointing out.


Me'mori wrote:
I still feel like I'm missing something with this, though... Thoughts?

Paladin (LG) of Brigh (N)?


Alchemaic wrote:
I hope there's an item that lets casters function in null-magic zones (not AMFs though), since I want to run a Mana Waste campaign and the whole "all these classes don't function if the weather isn't right" aspect makes things hard.

I call that evening the playing field, and some of those "weathers" affect everyone.


Got writter block and can't come up with a character concept, so bowing out.


Cole Deschain wrote:
Well, on the Unique high-CR outsider front, I wouldn't mind seeing the Whore Queens taking up the space...

They aren't called that anymore...


Tweak some, and keep some for NPC allies who can use it.


Amergin the Wise wrote:
Question: can we take into account age effects?

Ability Scores Adjustments? Answered there. (no)

@ GM R0B0GEISHA, not sure if you got one of my PM...


GM R0B0GEISHA wrote:


KM WolfMaw wrote:


* Physical handicap (missing/imcomplete limbs, missing eye, blindness, deafness, muteness, etc) and illnesses?
* ^ rules for prosthetics?

* Mental handicap and illness?

* Rules for firearms?

Are there rules for those things beyond firearms?

Physical Handicaps: Called Shots, Prostetics (don't know how to link directly to it).

Mental Hadicaps and illnesses: There are a few in the Game Mastery Guide.

^ and some more stuff in Horror Adventures and other sources I can't remember.


@ GM R0B0GEISHA, please tell us if we are putting too much pressure on you, or if you find us too annoying.


* Physical handicap (missing/imcomplete limbs, missing eye, blindness, deafness, muteness, etc) and illnesses?
* ^ rules for prostetics?

* Mental handicap and illness?

* Rules for firearms?


GM R0B0GEISHA wrote:
KM WolfMaw wrote:

* Young Characters?

* Ability Scores adjustments by Age Categories: Core or PFS like?

I also strongly suggest whoever will GM this read the Player Guide and read, not skim, the first part of the AP, including the Foreword.

- You can play whatever you want age-wise, but it's unlikely that I'll take a child or a geriatric. And I don't want to use the ability score adjustments.

And don't worry, I always read the modules before I run them. ;)

* That's why I asked "Core like or PFS like?", in PFS, age categories, young included, are cosmetic, no ability scores adjustment.

* Can be a good idea to read them before making a recruitment thread. ;)


Derek Dalton wrote:

I said this in another post. We had in our group a Graveknight who then became an antipaldin. He was extremely powerful unbalancing powerful. The GM who was used to high powered campaigns was shocked at how unstoppable this guy was. He pretty much ran through the module all by himself killing everything. The only challenge was a CR17 monster and then as a party we defeated it. We all had templates but paled next to the guy's Grave Knight. They are extremely powerful and no matter his class, he could take a NPC one and still be more powerful then normal adventurers.

Grave Knights make great monsters but I would not ever allow a player to play one. He will upset the campaign.

To be Honest, Grave Knight + Antipaladin is a broken combo, Grave Knight + Aristocrat/Fighter/Warrior isn't that broken, assuming the party has 1 or 2 Full Casters.


Raltus wrote:
KM WolfMaw wrote:
I also strongly suggest whoever will GM this read the Player Guide and read, not skim, the first part of the AP, including the Foreword.
Why is that?

1) Know what the AP is actually about and not what one think it is about.

2) What is and isn't suitable for PC.
3) Know which optional rules you will use (or not), kinda ties to 1 and 2.


Meraki wrote:

As for good undead, there are a few. The most recent example I can think of is a good ghost in B6, but I think there have been a couple others.

I'd only allow it if it was a campaign specifically designed to give everyone that kind of boost. I wouldn't let just one player become a graveknight in a regular campaign.

As someone else said, if everyone else are full casters, or close enough, the boost from the Template isn't that bad at Level 8+ and far from gamebreaking at 12+, the only "gamebreaking" part comes from being an undead...


* Templates?
* Third Party stuff (Classes, Feats, etc)?
* Generic Classes (DnD 3.5 Unearthed Arcana)?
* Young Characters?
* Ability Scores adjustments by Age Categories: Core or PFS like?

I also strongly suggest whoever will GM this read the Player Guide and read, not skim, the first part of the AP, including the Foreword.

Also, +1 to background skills, a rare AP where it benefits all classes.


* Templates?
* Third Party stuff (Classes, Feats, etc)?
* Generic Classes (DnD 3.5 Unearthed Arcana)?
* Young Characters?
* Ability Scores adjustments by Age Categories: Core or PFS like?

I also strongly suggest whoever will GM this read the Player Guide and read, not skim, the first part of the AP, including the Foreword.


Kerney wrote:

1) I have included children in various ways (In PFS, my herold and squire vanities are the twin daughters of my Summoner/Eidolon married couple and their rational for adventuring is "have you seen the cost of Taldan private academies").

2) As for including kids, it might be a good idea to include an "extra" five kids among the survivors. Some tropes--

A somewhat older (say 12) leader/foster parent who keeps the kids together.

A young adventuer who puts himself at risk , does a bit of the stupid things kids do. Better yet, the kid who gets all the kids in trouble.

An outsider, perhaps a half raced character. Find a way to make this palatable. For example, the half elf who is also the "responsible one" can approach some of the younger adults because they were once her playmates and peers who "outgrew her".

Include siblings and perhaps kids who lost siblings. Have about half of them be orphans.

Perhaps have a kid become the team mascot.

3) Recommended reading: The walking dead does a very good job of dealing with kids in survival situations.

1) I LOL'ed, school are very pricey, so are "babysitters".

2) Yeah. And at least you know there are some clichés.

3) Recommended Reading: A Song of Ice and Fire.
3.a) Avoid: many manga and anime...


grandpoobah wrote:

My general thought is this AP will be tight on opportunities to get to large markets.

Tamran isn't that big of a city, it can likely support loot of a 1st-4th level party, but the party is nowhere near Tamran in book 1. After that, there's really nothing nearby.

Even Teleport has a limit of 100miles/level (so about 900 miles when you get it at 9th level). even then, you have to have an idea of where you are going. no one has likely been to a nearby metropolis. That could be a side-quest in an of itself. Most options involve getting past Molthune (an enemy of anyone from Nirmathas)

All that said, my impression is that for books 1-3, the PCs will have extra gear they cannot use or sell. Finding ten +1 weapons does you little good once everyone has a +1 weapon they can use.

Even Item Crafting will be restricted, as the PCs will need to find crafting raw materials. Since you cannot simply transmute a +1 sword into 1000gp worth of crafting components in the middle of a forest.

My thoughts is that this will be a resource management game for books 1-3, until the PCs can find an appropriate market nearby (Janderhoff, Khorvosa, Magnimar to the West, Druma to the east, Ustalav to the north). And that will be a side-quest in an of itself.

I had a similar issue in other AP's. In GiantSlayer, there was a side-quest early in Book3 to Janderhoff. In Kingmaker, there was a sidequest after Book 3 to Taldor.

Not sure about long distance travel...

The PCs also have to worry about the Refugees/Miltia.

On the other hands, the enemies have quite a few things that can be used as material, can be reforged/remolded, etc, crafty PCs (with GM permission) might also "tear" the scenery appart for materials/componants, granted, this would be extra book keeping.


Voss wrote:
Attack cantrips are generally not worth the action. Disrupt undead might be the exception, if it's worth the slot (generally not). The main purpose of the damaging cantrips is troll disposal.

"cut" ropes and chains, weakening support structures, helping apply oils, paint, poisons, etc, minor distractions, attracting the curious, etc...


thejeff wrote:
KM WolfMaw wrote:
thejeff wrote:
KM WolfMaw wrote:
They removed Cure/Inflict Minor Wounds for a reason...

True, but it's not the same reason. Cure has to go away if cantrips aren't limited, because it's used out of combat and thus not limited by action economy. A Cure Minor Wounds cantrip would mean that you'd cast it after nearly every fight to get everyone back to full with no resource cost.

An attack cantrip works differently. It is limited by action economy, so it doesn't really break anything if it's worse than your real spells, but better than pulling out a crossbow or something.
Cure Minor Wounds on Undeads, Inflict Minor Wounds on living targets...
Yeah, they do work as attack spells, but they got removed because of the healing, not the damage.

They got removed because they work both ways.

Cantrip and Orison are meant to be utility spells more than "awesome sauce" type of spells.


thejeff wrote:
KM WolfMaw wrote:
Archmage Variel wrote:
Voss wrote:

Magic generally isn't a solution to everyday problems. It's a solution to specialized adventuring problems.

So, yeah, Mystics and technomancers probably won't be picking up mount or unseen servant, and probably won't be required to burn a slot on Mage armor (as it's fairly inadequate as a space suit). Other than that there is a lot of stuff they will want.

Even with magic not often being the solution to everyday problems, that's pretty much the realm of cantrips. I really hope that cantrips continue in starfinder. Cantrips were the reason I was able to picture a bookish scholarly wizard even surviving in the wild. To lazy to grab your spellbook? Use mage hand. Can't be bothered to carry those heavy torches or lanterns with you? Light has got your back. Robes starting to get that dungeony smell? Prestidigitate them. They were the perfect magical tools. I just hope that cantrips, if they do exist in starfinder, will finally be usable in a combat capacity. It would've been nice if they did the same level of damage as weaker weapons, like telekinetic projectile did. It wasn't particularly strong, and in the end you weren't going to be doing a whole lot of damage with it, but it gave you a direct damage option that didn't seem laughable.
They removed Cure/Inflict Minor Wounds for a reason...

True, but it's not the same reason. Cure has to go away if cantrips aren't limited, because it's used out of combat and thus not limited by action economy. A Cure Minor Wounds cantrip would mean that you'd cast it after nearly every fight to get everyone back to full with no resource cost.

An attack cantrip works differently. It is limited by action economy, so it doesn't really break anything if it's worse than your real spells, but better than pulling out a crossbow or something.

Cure Minor Wounds on Undeads, Inflict Minor Wounds on living targets...


Archmage Variel wrote:
Voss wrote:

Magic generally isn't a solution to everyday problems. It's a solution to specialized adventuring problems.

So, yeah, Mystics and technomancers probably won't be picking up mount or unseen servant, and probably won't be required to burn a slot on Mage armor (as it's fairly inadequate as a space suit). Other than that there is a lot of stuff they will want.

Even with magic not often being the solution to everyday problems, that's pretty much the realm of cantrips. I really hope that cantrips continue in starfinder. Cantrips were the reason I was able to picture a bookish scholarly wizard even surviving in the wild. To lazy to grab your spellbook? Use mage hand. Can't be bothered to carry those heavy torches or lanterns with you? Light has got your back. Robes starting to get that dungeony smell? Prestidigitate them. They were the perfect magical tools. I just hope that cantrips, if they do exist in starfinder, will finally be usable in a combat capacity. It would've been nice if they did the same level of damage as weaker weapons, like telekinetic projectile did. It wasn't particularly strong, and in the end you weren't going to be doing a whole lot of damage with it, but it gave you a direct damage option that didn't seem laughable.

They remove Cure/Inflict Minor Wounds for a reason...


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Been thinking, maybe it isn't about which abilities the character has, but how, when and why they are used.

* What is the level of Metagaming in those games?
* How much RollPlay vs RolePlay?
* Are you rolling (and role'ing) along the plot or trying to avoid it?
* ...?


GeraintElberion wrote:

Create Water is not on the list of spells you can make permanent.

I know this can be a GM exception but I might replace it with a decanter of endless water.

Maybe the "creation" of water is permanent, but the water itself isn't.

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