Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage
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Here are my concerns.
Usually there are a couple of games for me to sign-up for at my local lodge. Each game includes the general description of the scenario. As a player I can get a fair amount of info from these, such as where the scenario will take place and upon occasion what types of enemies I might encounter. (Yes I know many scenarios contain twists or are misleading.)
What can I take from these when prepping for the scenario? Can I purchase weather appropriate gear or protection against certain element? How about additional holy water/ potions of darkvision or purchase or memorize different spell?
What should I not do? What is considered going to far, other then some of the cardinal rules like not reading the scenario and other similarly low things?
Ultimately am I able to focus what I do with an eye to the scenarios coming up or do I go with general prep (standard gear/spells/ect) and add some random/just incase items? I don't want to cross any lines.
I don't want to be "THAT GUY" nor do I want to be thought of as "THAT GUY" when it comes to game prep.
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I used to have similar meta-gaming concerns. Would typically have my casters with a set load out of spells that they would have prepared for general purposes and try to avoid purchasing specific items until my character has heard the briefing.
I've come to regret playing PFS like that. Read the description, look at the scenario cover, choose your character and load out accordingly. As cheesy as it feels it does save a lot of headaches. Scenarios very much assume that Venture Captains picked the right team for the job.
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It also depends on character experiences and level.
1-5 it's a flip of the coin if any given particular item is in their bag, both due to weight constraints and finances.
After 5th, though, most folks probably have an answer to the common dangers that an adventurer might run into (Holy Water/channels for undead, silver weapons for lycanthropes/devils, cold iron for fey/demons, etc, etc).
Randomly blurting out all kinds of things from a given creature's stat block without even so much as a knowledge roll? That... is a bit of afaux pas.
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
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Things I consider fair game to use:
- The adventure name. If it includes "demon", bring a cold iron weapon. If it includes "dark", bring an oil of daylight.
- The picture on the front cover. Don't go paging through bestiaries to look up what it is, but if it looks obviously like something, feel free to bring the appropriate tools. If it looks undead, take that under advisement before bringing your mental-only PC. In most cases, the picture is either custom art for a boss (good luck recognizing) or a side encounter (so it doesn't spoil the main dish).
- The adventure blurb. Usually contains some hints on environmental expectations and what sort of characters would be fun to play.
If you weren't supposed to use any of this information, it shouldn't be pushed quite so publicly.
Using this information to select a character that's fun to play in that scenario is a good thing.
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Really, it comes down personal preference. I have no trouble with the descriptions above of what level of prep is acceptable. At the same time, I have two characters that pride themselves on being ready for *anything*, at any time. (Yes, only two!) Those ones tend to come into the briefing locked and loaded, with items to handle almost any contingency. If they get caught out, they make do.
Personally, I enjoy that challenge, but I make sure I'm not leaving my comrades hanging because I'm *not* prepared. Scrolls and wands really come in handy here, especially the few-charges wands from Chronicles. You can have a quiver of wands to handle most contingencies for not much money, and then never worry about those situations again. Similarly, weapon-blanched arrows and special material weapons weigh nothing in your handy haversack.
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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The thing I struggle with the most are creature types. When are you expected to know by heart what each creature type is resistant to? For example, Demons have standard elemental resistances, you can pretty much assume all of them have those, and only a rare few have extra resistances. But many of the higher-level ones also have spell resistance. Can you assume Spell Resistance as a given?
Or, phrased differently, do you have to spell out elemental resistances as a "useful bit of information" if you've encountered them for the third time in the same scenario?
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For my wizard I keep a list of prepared spells for different missions (Diplomancy, dungeon crawl, undead, & demons). After hearing the mission briefing I retcon that list in saying, "That's why you had me on [mission]-call today." It let's me RP that particular meta-gaming element.
For mundane gear (& my other characters) I don't even go that far. It is assumed every agent has a locker/room and after 3rd or 4th level, I have a stash of that gear already.
ETV Quentin, though in the same scenario I think you can retain that sort of stuff. My rule of thumb is the creature's rarity. DC for Knowledge checks on critters CR+5 (common), CR+10 (uncommon), CR+15 (rare). & I assume most creature types are a part of PFS training. The handbook pretty much goes into this.
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The thing I struggle with the most are creature types. When are you expected to know by heart what each creature type is resistant to
The various Player Companions often have sidebars like, "Five Things Everyone Knows About Demons" - I assume that this is all available for preparation purposes (as in, assuming you know enough to buy the stuff before leaving the Lodge). Being able to identify the creature in front of you in a split-second? That takes a Knowledge check from someone in the party.
I think there should be a PFS-specific alteration to the Knowledge skills to accomodate the supposed training... Like, if you have ranks in a skill you automatically know all the info about creatures of CR<=level that are identified by that skill. You'd still need to roll to ID the creature (again, heat of the moment and all that), but once you do, you get all the information as listed in the Bestiary entry, without resort to "pieces of information" or "questions" or whatever.
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Mostly agree with what's been said, but I never look at the pictures on the cover unless I'm buying the adventure.
Occasionally, I'll ask the GM before we start if there's any particular reason I should favor one PC over another. For instance, in one recent one with a particularly interesting Exchange faction mission, I hadn't heard of its reputation yet. I knew there was something for the Exchange, but I wasn't sure if that was my best PC to bring based on party makeup. The GM told me that I should definitely bring my Exchange guy, and he was right.
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Contributor
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I definitely think that it's fair game to choose a character based on the scenario blurb. It's really fun to play a PC in a game that is super thematic, like fighting a particularly hated foe, traveling to their home country, or just a really good match for skills, like a sneaky character for a heist or a knowledge-focused character for research.
For my prepared spellcaster, I actually do wait until after the briefing to change from her default spell list. I can then use not only the information from the briefing, but can also switch things up based on the needs of the party. If there's no chance to prepare new spells in game, then she's stuck with her default list.
As for mundane gear, I try to make sure all my characters can do something against a variety of enemies. Undead have a way of popping up unexpectedly!
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I have a slightly different take on Meta-Gaming lately... just something to think about...
I have actually seen players - experienced players, who know as players that you need to hit skeletons with blunt weapons NOT USING blunt weapons because no one at the table had Knowledge Religion - so... a bunch of players felt constrained to try to prevent "meta-gaming"... They knew that the monsters weren't taking full damage, but restricted their PCs, because they knew what to do (as players)- they didn't do it (as PCs). The player "meta" knowledge constrained their PCs ... One of the players actually switched weapons from a Warhammer to a Battle Ax, so that it wouldn't appear that he was using "Meta-Knowledge". If the monster had been something called a "Green Wiglet" and they noticed it wasn't takeing full damage they would have switched to different/back up weapons to try to find the DR type. It would have been a "puzzle" they would have enjoyed solving! (I can almost hear the table talk now..."Not Silver Blunt! switching to a Magic Slashing! You got that oil applied yet? Think it might be DR/Good then?")
Heck, these were not low level PCs! They all had blunt weapons! they just were afraid to appear to be Meta-gaming....
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basic skeleton should be a DC 5 knowledge check doable untrained, there's no reason for thatI wouldn't call a skeleton a common monster ala a goblin (which is specifically cited as such). A DC10 base is perfectly acceptable IMHO
I disagree, skeletons and zombies are incredibly common, DC 5 feel right. By level 3, any adventurer would know all the basics of dealing with them.
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Spell lists
What your player does:
Read the scenario and base descriptions off of that
What the character does:
Wake up in the morning, leave blank spell slots , listen to the briefing, take 15 minutes to fill in spell slots
Those two results are close enough together (if not identical), often enough, that the metagaming is at a pretty dull roar.
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Pickling a character
What your player does: OOO! A wilderness adventure. Break out the druid.
What the society does: A wilderness adventure. Someone wake up the druid.
This actually makes it LESS metagamey than the society waking up Lord Flauntleroy to go to the dismal swamp just because bob is trying to level up his highest level character
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Buying stuff"
What your player does: Oh, i'm going into the crown of the world better bring a coat now and not waste time getting one in game.
What your character does: I'm going to the crown of the world. That sounds chilly. Let me get a new coat.
Only metagamey on the rare occasion the society doesn't even give you a bathroom break before sending you out.
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On a more serious note: I agree that the information in the scenario blurb in publicized exactly so that you know which character is likely to best fit the job and so that you may have a clue as to what equipment you may find useful, so there's nothing meta-gaming about using that information to prepare. I think that using the picture may be a little meta because that information is not part of what you would be told when informed that you are being selected for a mission (it's often the boss or a random encounter and you would not likely have a way to know beforehand about it).
I also agree that skeletons and zombies should be considered as common monsters, based on their prevalence in the various random monster tables and the number of times you tend to see them in low-level adventures.
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I also agree that skeletons and zombies should be considered as common monsters, based on their prevalence in the various random monster tables and the number of times you tend to see them in low-level adventures.
Agreed. "If you're fighting a bag of bones with no flesh, don't try to hit 'em with something that will go between the ribs. Use a big, bludgeoning weapon that'll wack 'em down no matter what" just sounds like something Marcos Farabellus would make a point of teaching every new Pathfinder who comes through the Grand Lodge for training.
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I also agree that skeletons and zombies should be considered as common monsters, based on their prevalence in the various random monster tables and the number of times you tend to see them in low-level adventures.Agreed. "If you're fighting a bag of bones with no flesh, don't try to hit 'em with something that will go between the ribs. Use a big, bludgeoning weapon that'll wack 'em down no matter what" just sounds like something Marcos Farabellus would make a point of teaching every new Pathfinder who comes through the Grand Lodge for training.
However, as a lot of the written material that would have this information is potentially inaccessible due to being out of print, said training may not be known as an option for characters OR people are playing characters that are 'under contract' to the Society and are 'commissioned field agents'.
That being said, if someone saw bones and said "Oh, hey, it's easier to smash bone than CUT bone" that's really not a huge logic leap. Likewise "That skin looks kinda rubbery, it's probably easier to slice it up than try to bash it."
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Venture-Lieutenant, Alaska—Anchorage
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irony here is OP is apparently in my lodge and was signed up for my Saturday table haha! I did not know when I originally responded, one of those times the briefing would not have helped.
scenario name included watery words and cover was of a clearly aquatic creature
glub glub )
Yep we had a laugh once he realized i was speaking about his game, good times.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Maryland—Hagerstown
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I usually pick the character that suits the blurb, or if I have ran the scenario before, already know exactly which character I would like to play the game with...
If I have not played the game and it list the name of the nation or information like, "high in the mountains" or "the desert city". Guess what, my character can stop by what ever little market they find and pick up the right stuff.
Usually after the briefing, depending if their is not an immediate threat or time sensitive mission, there is time for shopping, at least a couple of hours.
If I am running, I will hint that, "hey you are going to the plane of air, you might need something to help you". most of the time that works.
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Now my basic character prep is the same for most of my character and that is how I am usually prepared.
For my melee fighter, I have a potions for just about any situations and replace them almost immediately after a mission. Just hoping that I brought enough and don't blow my load in one combat.
For my magic users, scrolls, lots and lots of scrolls, especially level 1 utility scrolls. A couple pearls of powers for the prepared casters. Spontaneous, well, I guess they could spring for the other thing that lets you regain the spell slot.
Now, if you call that metagamey, oh well. I call it being prepared.
Yep we had a laugh once he realized i was speaking about his game, good times.
On the bright side, you didn't almost drown!