I'm interested in hearing how people play their androids and constructs in regards to explaining why skill checks, attack rolls, and things of that sort fail. Since the characters are essentially computers, is it chalked up to an algorithm they're still testing and debugging? Is their firmware faulty or glitchy? Were they designed with failure chance to better blend into biological societies?
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First nitpick: if Starfinder androids will be the same as in Pathfinder, they won't be computers/robots but synthetic people with biological and artificial components.
That aside:
Attack rolls: The target successfully defended against the attack. Simple.
Skill checks: The computers are not infallible, they are operating within certain parameters, with certain physical capabilities, and with certain knowledge programmed in. E.g. When opening a lock you need to test a certain number of moves, you might fail if you take a move which blocks the internal tumbles and have to start from scratch. When failing a Knowledge check, computer might simply don't know the answer because no one ever entered it into its databanks. Or if that information was entered it might have not been properly cross-indexed, or contextualized.
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The answer is 42.
Androids dont think in programmed minds, they have actual souls like an organic and their minds work like an organics... with a few exceptions like dampened emotions. i assume that true robots failing checks would be due to the circumstances outpacing their ability to cope with ie moving targets swerving or ducking when their programming did not predict it, built in anti-slicing programs adapting to the preset approach a robot uses. Machines like a CNC should have a preset level that, so long as you feed them the right parts, constantly produce anything at or below the level they are capable of. Things that have free thought, Androids or AIs should have to work through it just like a PC would though they might have expert tools and circumstance bonuses inherently.
Ah! Bummer. I was lucky enough to binge Westworld the other week and it got me all excited to play as a programmable sentient being. I've seen other threads asking if there was going to be a more basic playable robot race like C3-P0, perhaps I was reading about this very difference without even knowing it.
First nitpick: if Starfinder androids will be the same as in Pathfinder, they won't be computers/robots but synthetic people with biological and artificial components.
If I might nitpick your nitpick, while Androids certainly act organic (reacting to healing magic and the like), they are entirely synthetic. They just emulate organic life so well, even magic has trouble telling the difference. There's some language about Androids that even describes their bodies as "installing" new souls when they rejuvenate at the end of their lifespan.
If I might nitpick your nitpick, while Androids certainly act organic (reacting to healing magic and the like), they are entirely synthetic. They just emulate organic life so well, even magic has trouble telling the difference. There's some language about Androids that even describes their bodies as "installing" new souls when they rejuvenate at the end of their lifespan.First nitpick: if Starfinder androids will be the same as in Pathfinder, they won't be computers/robots but synthetic people with biological and artificial components.
I would like to nitpick your nitpick of a nitpick... but I completely agree with you, so I've got nothing. That said. Ever thought about the fact that androids have the ability to absorb a soul? If that is the case, was the soul intended for the android in the first place? Is there a newborn that ends up born without a soul due to the soul being taken by the android upon rejuvenation? If it's possible for a machine to act as a receptacle for souls, then can another machine be built to repeatedly trap souls before they can reach a body?
Even in westworld the Hosts were able to miscalibrate to the point that the maintainence techs had trouble fixing them... and the way that remembered past lives certainly distracted them and caused them to perform below expectations of "machine perfection".Androids dont think in programmed minds, they have actual souls like an organic and their minds work like an organics... with a few exceptions like dampened emotions. i assume that true robots failing checks would be due to the circumstances outpacing their ability to cope with ie moving targets swerving or ducking when their programming did not predict it, built in anti-slicing programs adapting to the preset approach a robot uses. Machines like a CNC should have a preset level that, so long as you feed them the right parts, constantly produce anything at or below the level they are capable of. Things that have free thought, Androids or AIs should have to work through it just like a PC would though they might have expert tools and circumstance bonuses inherently.Ah! Bummer. I was lucky enough to binge Westworld the other week and it got me all excited to play as a programmable sentient being. I've seen other threads asking if there was going to be a more basic playable robot race like C3-P0, perhaps I was reading about this very difference without even knowing it.
Very true, but the Hosts are a race at the brink of achieving sentience. I had imagined Androids as an older race and thus able to provide a massive catalog of experience data with finely tuned algorithms and sub routines. This race would likely have a huge ego hubris and would experience failures in situations that biological races acted at low probability outcomes.
I'm reminded of Bladerunner's replicants a little but don't remember if they were fully organic or programable at the moment.
This also brings to the table the possibility of a synthetic mind having superior processing speed. Very likely they could operate with drastically lower input lag too and make minor corrections mid action. I would see this as high skill or attack buffs or some sort of a reroll system.
I was lucky enough to binge Westworld the other week and it got me all excited to play as a programmable sentient being.
That'd be an AI in a robot. I haven't heard much about AI PCs, but if that isn't an option out of the gate, I'll be really surprised if it isn't eventually added. It'd be fascinating to have a mechanic similar to Eclipse Phase's morphs for AI PCs to move between robot "sleeves".
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I was lucky enough to binge Westworld the other week and it got me all excited to play as a programmable sentient being.That'd be an AI in a robot. I haven't heard much about AI PCs, but if that isn't an option out of the gate, I'll be really surprised if it isn't eventually added. It'd be fascinating to have a mechanic similar to Eclipse Phase's morphs for AI PCs to move between robot "sleeves".
I've had this happen to me. :-)
Edit: Now, I'm pretty. :-)
so offended
Why is my computer coughing?
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OP...have you ever used windows?
I would like to nitpick your nitpick of a nitpick... but I completely agree with you, so I've got nothing. That said. Ever thought about the fact that androids have the ability to absorb a soul? If that is the case, was the soul intended for the android in the first place? Is there a newborn that ends up born without a soul due to the soul being taken by the android upon rejuvenation? If it's possible for a machine to act as a receptacle for souls, then can another machine be built to repeatedly trap souls before they can reach a body?If I might nitpick your nitpick, while Androids certainly act organic (reacting to healing magic and the like), they are entirely synthetic. They just emulate organic life so well, even magic has trouble telling the difference. There's some language about Androids that even describes their bodies as "installing" new souls when they rejuvenate at the end of their lifespan.First nitpick: if Starfinder androids will be the same as in Pathfinder, they won't be computers/robots but synthetic people with biological and artificial components.
OP...have you ever used windows?
Yeah, I've been known to open them on nice days.
...That'd be an AI in a robot. I haven't heard much about AI PCs, but if that isn't an option out of the gate, I'll be really surprised if it isn't eventually added. It'd be fascinating to have a mechanic similar to Eclipse Phase's morphs for AI PCs to move between robot "sleeves".
Exactly! Alright then, well fingers crossed it comes in the Alien Archive if not in the core book! I like a lot of the ideas in your list though.
To possibly clear up the original question, computers can obviously malfunction so how would you role play an AI character handling these malfunctions? What would you make their perspective and reasoning like in those situations that they rolled a 1?
Pretty sure it has something to do with BGP.
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Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind.
Thou shalt not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind.
So says robot God! Beep boop!
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What do you think happens when a new soul occupies a fully kitted out Android Shell? Something with integrated plasma emitters and a full assassination protocol package installed? Awkward first week?
Ha! They become Guy Pearce in Memento?
It would be interesting to experiment with a homebrew where player characters cycle through souls several times. To fully capture the mood players would probably have to get a randomly rolled new shell with level appropriate wealth. I doubt many people would be willing to wipe their character clean every 5 levels or so though..
Failing an attack roll could mean a number of things. Maybe you missed. Maybe they dodged or parried. Maybe it hit but did an inconsequential amount of damage (if any). Maybe it bounced off their armor or they clocked it with a shield. Maybe there was something in the way you didn't account for. There's a lot of possibilities.
As for skill checks, it depends on the circumstances and the skill in question, but most of the answers here have already covered most of those.
I was lucky enough to binge Westworld the other week and it got me all excited to play as a programmable sentient being.That'd be an AI in a robot. I haven't heard much about AI PCs, but if that isn't an option out of the gate, I'll be really surprised if it isn't eventually added. It'd be fascinating to have a mechanic similar to Eclipse Phase's morphs for AI PCs to move between robot "sleeves".
Go look up the game system Nova Praxis. You just summed up half of humanity in that game.
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I'm interested in hearing how people play their androids and constructs in regards to explaining why skill checks, attack rolls, and things of that sort fail. Since the characters are essentially computers, is it chalked up to an algorithm they're still testing and debugging? Is their firmware faulty or glitchy? Were they designed with failure chance to better blend into biological societies?
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I love all of the transhuman RPGs out there. Eclipse Phase is definitely the most fantastical of them all and borders on posthumanism. Nova Praxis feels more like the early stages of transhumanism. Transhuman Space is like the very middle.
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If I might nitpick your nitpick, while Androids certainly act organic (reacting to healing magic and the like), they are entirely synthetic. They just emulate organic life so well, even magic has trouble telling the difference. There's some language about Androids that even describes their bodies as "installing" new souls when they rejuvenate at the end of their lifespan.First nitpick: if Starfinder androids will be the same as in Pathfinder, they won't be computers/robots but synthetic people with biological and artificial components.
I'm interested in hearing how people play their androids and constructs in regards to explaining why skill checks, attack rolls, and things of that sort fail. Since the characters are essentially computers, is it chalked up to an algorithm they're still testing and debugging? Is their firmware faulty or glitchy? Were they designed with failure chance to better blend into biological societies?
Fluid dynamics and wind resistance are a little hard to caluclate
The rock i was holding LOOKED solid...
and those who reject gender as just Droids?
Droid is TM Lucasfilm.
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A couple of thoughts:
1). Trash in trash out
Perhaps the robots io (input / output) capabilities are limited. Resulting in faulty information gathering, which results in a incorrect assessment of a situtation and a faulty answer.
2). Incorrect data or damaged data to start with
"It must be true. The Internet says so."
--Abraham Lincoln
Perhaps a younger or newer model has either incorrect data or damaged data that would result in a faulty answer. As the robot grows, his ability to clean and improve his data improves.
3). Does Not Compute
The robot does not have information, enough information or the ability to process the question. So it guesses as best it can. Think iPhone auto-completion errors.
All things considered, human society is fairly patriarchal when it comes to etymology. Under the majority of (especially early) literary circumstances, we utilize terms such as mankind, man made, and manpower etc. to represent humanity as a whole. Though I may not agree with how that terminology should have developed, it's hard to disagree it isn't a fairly common theme in humanities history, and gives the world of Starfinder another (probably unintentional) dimension of realism with links to our own reality and experiences. That said, I'm not sure whether I'm going to want to play an android myself (because I'm not sure I'll like the relationship of magic they have, considering the current pathfinder lore) but I have a friend who's super excited for them.
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Wow, really? I have always used it as a settting agnostic term... and isnt it a specific brand for Android phones, that whole "Droid does" slogan? weird.and those who reject gender as just Droids?Droid is TM Lucasfilm.
Yeah, and after they released the first version of the phone Lucasfilm sued them. They reached a settlement allowing "Droid" to continue to be used for the phone (in return for an undisclosed but likely sizable cash payment). Next time you see an ad for one take a look at the bottom where it will say in tiny type that "Droid is TM Lucasfilm and used under license."
Edit: it's also worth noting that Lucasfilm didn't file the trademark until something like 2007. So anyone who used the term in the 80's, 90's or early 2000's is pretty safe to continue using it. As far as I know no one has challenged the trademark in court.
Edit: it's also worth noting that Lucasfilm didn't file the trademark until something like 2007. So anyone who used the term in the 80's, 90's or early 2000's is pretty safe to continue using it. As far as I know no one has challenged the trademark in court.
I am not sure this is entirely accurate. When Battletech first came out in the very early 80's it was actually called BattleDROIDS and a lawsuit from Lucasfilm forced them to change the name. While I am not 100% positive that Lucasfilm won in court over a copyright infringement judgement or FASA just caved at the potential legal costs of battling Lucasfilm in court but I know for 100% sure the case happened.
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How do I explain a computer failing a skill check?
That's what I have to do every day, 40(+) hours a week to earn my paycheck. We have teams of people making careers out of answering that question on computer systems orders of magnitude less complex. It's actually more surprising when you get a real world computer to MAKE a skill check! ;)
Seriously, however, there's no real reason to think computers would never fail checks for all the reasons Garrett Guillotte awesomely lists out. Computers can be as prone to failure as us biologicals.
However, that answer isn't very interesting for a game.
For those that work in AI its interesting that computers are really good at things that humans find extremely difficult (complex math being an obvious one), but are actually really bad at things we find very easy (vision, subtle pattern recognition, factoring context into problem solving, etc.). If you wanted to make androids and AIs feel very different than humanoid races, one interesting thing to play with is which skills they can Take 10 on (if that's even a thing in Starfinder). Maybe biologicals can't take 10 on knowledge checks - they always have to roll, but AIs and androids can, and other skills are flipped.
Or maybe break up the skills so that androids and AI can "take 12" on some skills (knowledge skills?) but only "take 8" on others (like Sense Motive??) and biologicals would have different sets of skills they could take 8 or take 12 on.
Some flat penalties and bonuses might work better. I don't know, I'm making this up off the top of my head and it would certainly add complexity. But I was trying to think of something that could convey that different-ness in base ability without just being a bonus or penalty to optimize, and instead have it be something just sort of off and different. Like in some situations one can look at the other surprised and say "How can you do that so easily?" but it flips in different situations with the human amazed at what the AI can do with little effort and other times the AI amazed at what the human do with little effort.
And now I'm gonna boggle for the next day or two about which word in there triggered the blue brigade...
Regarding that, I have a theory to test: "Phase's morphs"
EDIT: Yep, that did it.
's morph
What happens to a poster who types "'s morph"?
The same thing that happens to everything else.
Mighty 's morphing powered androids.
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