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Pretty sure I read somewhere that a spell or effect needs to be actively discharged by the creature, so getting hit with an unarmed strike or natural weapon won't discharge the spell/effect unless stated otherwise.I'll quote it again...
" If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges."Yes, I know. The question is whether the rules differentiate between you touching something, and something touching you.
Unless you think the developers intend for things like Shocking Grasp to act automatically as a spell-storing armor against unarmed/natural attacks.
Someone touching you is the same as you touching someone... if you have no control over the discharge. Which you do not. There is no protection against it.
Which, like I said, is the reason most just assume the charge is held in a limb vs the entire body. It makes the rule much simpler. There is even a faq about gloves not discharging a spell, and picking up a weapon not discharging a spell(for the magus). Which all involves hands.|
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I'm not sure why that 'assumption' is any better than the 'assumption' that touching is the same (or different) than being touched.
Check the edit.
Kicking someone discharges the spell, yes? Does moving (touching the ground with your feet)?
Check my own edit.
If touching the ground was enough to discharge the spell... then it would always discharge before you could use it against anything. Unless you are flying. That question is a non-starter. It can't work that way.
Of course there is always the thought that it must be a touch of your skin against something else. No RAW there, but it protects against discharging into the ground unless you are barefoot. But there is no RAW to support this.
Either way... you touching someone = someone touching you... if it does not matter if the touch was on purpose.
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So, you can or can't discharge the spell by kicking someone? Also, you can't discharge spells if you're wearing gloves? You sure about that?
Furthermore, the rules clearly say that if you, say, touch a weapon the spell discharges. (for a non-Magus)
What if you are 'touched' by a weapon, say by an attack. Does the spell discharge then?
Please re-read my post. If you are asking me if I'm sure of something that I said was not supported by RAW at all... then you might have missed a few things.
But, if you take the view that holding the charge requires that your entire body hold the charge... then someone attacking you with a weapon would cause the charge to discharge into whatever attacked you. Just as hugging a friend would cause it to discharge into your friend.
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Only if you assume there is no difference between actively touching and being touched, which seems to be the best way to resolve all of those issues.
Can people on horseback cast touch spells? ;)
The line that states that it doesn't matter if the touch is deliberate or not removes the possibility that 'actively touching' matters... as the difference between actively touching and not-actively touching is that actively touching is a deliberate act. That's not assumption, that is RAW.
The issue with riding a horse is going to squarely be a GM question... since there is no answer to how a charge is held. Having no answer, it is up to each GM to decide.
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The line that states that it doesn't matter if the touch is deliberate or not removes the possibility that 'actively touching' matters... as the difference between actively touching and not-actively touching is that actively touching is a deliberate act. That's not assumption, that is RAW.Deliberate/unintentional is not quite the same as active/passive. If I trip and put my hand down to catch myself, I didn't 'intend' to touch the ground, and yet it was an active touch on my part.
If someone tosses an apple at me, and I reflexively catch it, I may not have 'intended' to touch the apple, yet it was an active touch on my part. If someone throws the apple at the back of my head, that was a passive touch. I didn't actively do anything to touch that apple.
If I swing my arm through the air and accidentally hit an invisible creature, that's an active touch, though unintentional.
But sure, if you would rather try to cobble together a set of rules that somehow makes touch spells work in another fashion, be my guest, though I have trouble seeing how you will accomplish it in any way that is self-consistent.
Edit: just to illustrate the converse, if I use an ability to put myself in harms way, taking an attack meant for someone else, I intentionally got hit, but it's still a passive touch.
I'm not quite sure where you have a point here. Whether by choice or not, if you are touching something then the spell discharges. Where does it grant the extra proviso that you must have performed some sort of kinetic action during the event? As kinetic action seems to be where you have landed for the definition of active.
As for your edit... that won't be passive. You deliberately and with action put yourself in the way of an attack. You can't say both, "I took action to be in a position to be hit" and "I took no action to be in a position to be hit". You would have played an active(engaged in action) part in being hit.
Now, it would be passive if someone came to attack you and you did not move.
Of course, if your intention is to not be hit and you moved but still got hit... you were unintentionally hit but also active in the process of being hit.
They release FAQs on Fridays. They kinda maybe have a goal for every Friday, but it's not something that always happens. Usually you'll only have 1 FAQ given per Friday, unless they released a new RPG line book, then you may see a few of the "hotfix" FAQs for the book come out the same Friday.
I honestly would not expect this to get answered today.
I'm still waiting on the Shielded Gauntlet Style FAQ that was "coming soon" like 16 months ago.
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I realy dont want to pay 123k and a feat to use blessing of fervor in pfs.I would realy like to use boots of speed.I hope faq comes soon.
This becomes an issue if you actually find a GM who would rule the way this thread suggests. I have not seen this happen yet. And the abilities mentioned in the OP are not exactly widely seen.
The frequency with which an unintended ruling occurs seems to be part of what the PDT uses to decide which questions to answer. Which is why I doubt this one will see an answer anytime soon.
Though, as always, I hope the opposite occurs and the question gets answered.
But... Shield Master only just recently got FAQ'd, for those who know about that feat.
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Yeah ı seen that aswell.Well it affect every kineticist outthere.Since emergency burst is if ı am correct one of the reasons why their damage is so low.And plus in pfs every gm rules this way.Because they have to.
Not to mention divine casters at that level is rare.I have seen 3 maybe 4.And there is no guarentee that they know blessing of fervor.Alterntive solution would be getting the scrool of it but spending 700 gold for every burst in a gold limited enviorment is a huge problem.
So I play PFS, I've never seen it not work, nor am sure that people even know it potentially might not work. So if you're that worried about it ask your GMs or VO.
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I did.They said no.And quated me the soceity guide saying doing rulings for eveyone would cause chaos and we would be following the pfs guide and offical pfs ruling from lead team.So no in pfs it doesnt work.İf it does it is either because they are doing rulings for you or they dont know that it doesnt work like that in pfs.
However, kinetic blast *IS* really weird..
Kinetic Blast (Sp): At 1st level, a kineticist gains a kinetic blast wild talent of her choice. This kinetic blast must be a simple blast that matches her element. As a standard action, the kineticist can unleash a kinetic blast at a single target up to a range of 30 feet. She must have at least one hand free to aim the blast (or one prehensile appendage, if she doesn't have hands). All damage from a kinetic blast is treated as magic for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. Kinetic blasts count as a type of weapon for the purpose of feats such as Weapon Focus. [u]The kineticist is never considered to be wielding or gripping the kinetic blast (regardless of effects from form infusions), and she can't use Vital Strike feats with kinetic blasts.[/u] Even the weakest kinetic blast involves a sizable mass of elemental matter or energy, so kinetic blasts always deal full damage to swarms of any size (though only area blasts deal extra damage to swarms). A readied kinetic blast can be used to counterspell any spell of equal or lower level that shares its descriptor. A kinetic blast that deals energy damage of any type (including force) has the corresponding descriptor.
I feel like the desired state of "Kinetic Blade does not worth with vital strike, does work with haste" is something we cannot suss out clearly from printed materials.
You need a GM or a design team member or somebody to come out and say "That's the way it should work."
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I feel like the desired state of "Kinetic Blade does not worth with vital strike, does work with haste" is something we cannot suss out clearly from printed materials.
You need a GM or a design team member or somebody to come out and say "That's the way it should work."
I have the class designer.But his intentions doesnt mean anything in pfs.Well ı dont need them to say it.I need them to faq or erretra it.
I honestly think it's a bit much to hope that you'll get an FAQ response to this question less than 1 week after it got raised.
I think it's a good question for them to answer, but don't get your hopes up. I was part of the process for the most FAQd FAQ that was ever FAQd, and that one was not a quick response. Due to the simplicity of it this one might be quicker, but don't count on it.
Official Rules Response
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Haste: Haste says a hasted creature can make an additional attack during a full attack with a natural or manufactured weapon, but what about other sorts of attacks like unarmed strikes?
Unarmed strikes and other attacks that work via full attacks (such as mystic bolts, kinetic blade, and flame blade) all allow an extra attack with haste. However, single attacks such as incorporeal touch attacks or melee touch spells delivered round by round after holding the charge do not.Touch Spells: In the Magic and Combat chapters, it says that I can touch a single ally as a standard action or up to six allies as a full-round action and that I can combine delivering a touch spell with a natural attack or unarmed strike. But what if I just want to deliver the touch spell to an enemy? It just says I can do it “round after round.”
Making a touch attack against an enemy by touching it, beyond the free action to do so as part of casting the spell, is a standard action. It can’t be used with a full attack.
wow, really nice. I like the clarification for the touch spells. I would have ruled that you could make iterative attacks with them if they were multi-charged, so good to know how that works.
Though it also shuts down delivering the touch attack with spring attack on the round after casting, it's not that this was a popular tactic though.
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And Chemlak is right not to expect a FAQ answer less than a week after the question arises. It turns out this time it happened, but it's not too typical.
And Chemlak is right not to expect a FAQ answer less than a week after the question arises. It turns out this time it happened, but it's not too typical.
Did "this one is relatively simple to explain and answer, and everybody was more or less in agreement from the start" help expedite this one, for future reference?
Also, hooray the answer is how I (and everybody else I think) thought it should be.
And Chemlak is right not to expect a FAQ answer less than a week after the question arises. It turns out this time it happened, but it's not too typical.Did "this one is relatively simple to explain and answer, and everybody was more or less in agreement from the start" help expedite this one, for future reference?
Also, hooray the answer is how I (and everybody else I think) thought it should be.
My guess is that it was possibly discussed when making the "how much are special attacks counting as weapons" FAQ.
I think the fact that there's a brand new archetype in Psychic Anthology that specializes in the Kinetic Blade probably helped get this one out fast too.
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My guess is that it was possibly discussed when making the "how much are special attacks counting as weapons" FAQ.And Chemlak is right not to expect a FAQ answer less than a week after the question arises. It turns out this time it happened, but it's not too typical.Did "this one is relatively simple to explain and answer, and everybody was more or less in agreement from the start" help expedite this one, for future reference?
Also, hooray the answer is how I (and everybody else I think) thought it should be.
Both of you are right (EDIT: The archetype mentioned in the post after this one wasn't really a factor though). This one was a slam dunk for those reasons, combined with other factors in its favor as well. On the other hand, for instance, there is one FAQ question on the queue right now that might take more time to answer than the rest of the pressing section of the queue combined, and that one is much less likely to get a quick answer, since if we somehow wound up with enough time (an unrealistic dream, true), it's probably better overall to have answered all the other ones.
The second part about touch spells on succeeding rounds makes the magus Spellstrike ability much nicer since "he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack."
Haste: Haste says a hasted creature can make an additional attack during a full attack with a natural or manufactured weapon, but what about other sorts of attacks like unarmed strikes?
Unarmed strikes and other attacks that work via full attacks (such as mystic bolts, kinetic blade, and flame blade) all allow an extra attack with haste. However, single attacks such as incorporeal touch attacks or melee touch spells delivered round by round after holding the charge do not.Touch Spells: In the Magic and Combat chapters, it says that I can touch a single ally as a standard action or up to six allies as a full-round action and that I can combine delivering a touch spell with a natural attack or unarmed strike. But what if I just want to deliver the touch spell to an enemy? It just says I can do it “round after round.”
Making a touch attack against an enemy by touching it, beyond the free action to do so as part of casting the spell, is a standard action. It can’t be used with a full attack.
Appreciate the clarification. Very interesting.
So, this means you can't Full Attack with a spell like Chill Touch, if I'm reading this correctly. Not opposed to it, I just thought that a lot of guides and stuff argued otherwise.
Sometimes it's awesome to be wrong.
This clears up a lot. Thanks PDT!
Appreciate the clarification. Very interesting.So, this means you can't Full Attack with a spell like Chill Touch, if I'm reading this correctly. Not opposed to it, I just thought that a lot of guides and stuff argued otherwise.
Well, you could if you were full attacking with unarmed strikes or natural attacks. You just can't make a full round's attack worth of touches.
At least by my reading of that.
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Haste: Haste says a hasted creature can make an additional attack during a full attack with a natural or manufactured weapon, but what about other sorts of attacks like unarmed strikes?
Unarmed strikes and other attacks that work via full attacks (such as mystic bolts, kinetic blade, and flame blade) all allow an extra attack with haste. However, single attacks such as incorporeal touch attacks or melee touch spells delivered round by round after holding the charge do not.Touch Spells: In the Magic and Combat chapters, it says that I can touch a single ally as a standard action or up to six allies as a full-round action and that I can combine delivering a touch spell with a natural attack or unarmed strike. But what if I just want to deliver the touch spell to an enemy? It just says I can do it “round after round.”
Making a touch attack against an enemy by touching it, beyond the free action to do so as part of casting the spell, is a standard action. It can’t be used with a full attack.
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