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In my 4-year-still-going campaign, I learned the Big Bad had sufficiently terrified the party of level 16s that one of them now believes her only hope of stopping the Big Bad is to take the Test of the Starstone. The other party members are reluctant but agree to take the test together if she decides to go through with it.
The problem is that with how I envision the Test, this mission is essentially suicidal. But I don't want to shut down the idea either. The party does have a demigoddess as an ally, but the goddess's presence on the Material Plane is extremely fragile and she can't do much to help.
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From this PathfinderWiki entry... http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Test_of_the_Starstone
The key line is, "while those who fail usually die, although a select few manage to escape, occasionally with great wealth, but no divinity."
Maybe they are able to leave, but with something or some knowledge that will help them with the big bad.
The other helpful point is, "The exact nature of the obstacles changes over time", so there is not one test, it's not the test you'd have to use later, and if a test is ever "published" or referenced then it's ok it was wrong.
The one thing you'll need to do to match what is known, "The Test of the Starstone is mysterious; the only publicly known part of the test is that hopefuls must cross the bottomless pit surrounding the Starstone Cathedral without using a bridge." Which could be as easy as them flying across with magic, but also, since, "constant hazards include magic not always working right and prevention of extra-dimensional movement." Maybe they have to do something else (and it could be the way to stop it if you wish)
My impression (though this article says nothing on this) is that INDIVIDUALS take the test, not groups. So, this could be a one-off, one on one with the player. Maybe they all try to cross, but just she makes it. You have the adventure, she fails, but lives, and comes back with info or an artifact. (this session could be done with just her... then when you have the group, you replay the "trying to cross", then they fail and see her succeed, then skip ahead to when she's back with that session already done.) Could also be a specific one-on-one for EACH of them... each one maybe gains a quest, or a tool to help, or an insight into themselves, etc.
So, you'd need to come up with 1) cross the pit encounter, 2) get into the cathedral encounter (puzzle?) 3-5? Some progressively difficult encounters with the last one being a failure not resulting in death, but gaining something helpful.
Would be awesome to allow it to play through.
Encounter ideas:
1. As an encounter idea I like, the player fighting an exact copy of themselves (copy could be created at that moment so they start just as damaged and spent of abilities)
2. Moral dilemma, player comes across ritual being performed that stops coming of great evil/demon/devil by sacrificing a person, player can either 1) stop it or 2) or don't and great evil shows up and destroys ... maybe that's the failed thing, if she passes by not letting the person die, but she is defeated and awarded (I actually love this idea as a whole module... let ritual happen and everything is peachy, or stop ritual and Orcas shows up and wipes out the town.)
3. Come up with a game (chess, three dragon ante, etc) that must be played against some formidable opponent to move on (Three Dragon Ante has rules for character stats to effect the game)
4. This film has some interesting ideas for room/puzzles ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cube_(film) IF I remember correctly, which I may not.
... more might pop into my head.
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Also, search these boards on "Startone, looks like some good info in these threads.
Have them watch another candidate go to their doom.
That's actually a side scene in one PFS scenario.
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I'd say that an adventuring party that takes the Test gets spit out as mythic rather than gods.
Based on Aroden's article, the Test is in two parts --
1) The Starstane Cathedral, the ever-changing deathtrap dungeon created by Aroden to ward the Starstone, and
2) the Starstone itself.
A single touch pulled Aroden into the alien artifact, wherein he experienced a series of phantasmagoric scenes that presented lethal martial trials and exhausting moral quandaries that challenged Aroden’s physical, mental, and spiritual limits more than any of the arduous experiences he had survived thus far.
The deathtrap dungeon is the easy part.
But honestly, it's probably best to just shoot down the idea if you don't want to Test to end or derail your campaign.
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New theory: The Test of the Starstone is the Maze of Many from Goblins.
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"If you manage to pass the test, what is your next character going to be like and how should I arrange for them to meet and join the group? It's cool that you want to give me your character as an NPC god, but we should have a plan for if that happens"
In most cases this question will make the player reconsider their plan to take the test.
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I think I read somewhere that you don't come out as demigod out of starstone, you come out with mythic tiers and large potential to eventually grow in power to become an actual god
No, the three ascended deities definitely came out as at least demigods.
It seems like the possible results list for the Test of the Starstone goes something like; death, riches, mythic (0 to 3 domains), demigod (4 domains), and possibly full deity (5 domains).
For a group of 16th level PCs you might want to limit that possible results list to just the first three. Or not. Depends on the campaign.
Thing is..if a character decides to take the Test of the Starstone in my campaigns, it will most likely be the end of that character's story. Especially if the Test is not meant to be part of the campaign's story.
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I think I read somewhere that you don't come out as demigod out of starstone, you come out with mythic tiers and large potential to eventually grow in power to become an actual god
That's in Mythic Realms (or maybe Mythic Origins? I forget, now, which is the soft-cover I own; either way, it's that one).
It essentially says that the Starstone doesn't grant divinity, merely a mythic tier (or maybe mythic trial or something; it's hazy, now) and the ability to petition a specific god to notice you by meditating near the stone for a day; if they like you, you get to choose a single "unique" mythic power (which is really more like two mythic powers in one; each granted power is specific to the single deity you petition) at a certain tier. If they don't accept you, you can petition another god, until you find one that does.
As I recall, it (or something related) even implied that this is (more or less) what happened to Aroden.
James has subsequently said (if I recall correctly, and I might not), that this was basically an error, and should be sorta-kinda ignored, (-ish), but, as-published, that's the only reward you get for passing the test of the Starstone, and it sort of kind of sucks, in my opinion.
I may look it up later.
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In my 4-year-still-going campaign, I learned the Big Bad had sufficiently terrified the party of level 16s that one of them now believes her only hope of stopping the Big Bad is to take the Test of the Starstone. The other party members are reluctant but agree to take the test together if she decides to go through with it.
The problem is that with how I envision the Test, this mission is essentially suicidal. But I don't want to shut down the idea either. The party does have a demigoddess as an ally, but the goddess's presence on the Material Plane is extremely fragile and she can't do much to help.
Here's the big question. Is the party RIGHT in their supposition about the Big Bad? If not, than you might want to throw the hint that a more reachable advantage might be worth going for instead.
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I think I read somewhere that you don't come out as demigod out of starstone, you come out with mythic tiers and large potential to eventually grow in power to become an actual god
That's in Mythic Realms (or maybe Mythic Origins? I forget, now, which is the soft-cover I own; either way, it's that one).
It essentially says that the Starstone doesn't grant divinity, merely a mythic tier (or maybe mythic trial or something; it's hazy, now) and the ability to petition a specific god to notice you by meditating near the stone for a day; if they like you, you get to choose a single "unique" mythic power (which is really more like two mythic powers in one; each granted power is specific to the single deity you petition) at a certain tier. If they don't accept you, you can petition another god, until you find one that does.
As I recall, it (or something related) even implied that this is (more or less) what happened to Aroden.
James has subsequently said (if I recall correctly, and I might not), that this was basically an error, and should be sorta-kinda ignored, (-ish), but, as-published, that's the only reward you get for passing the test of the Starstone, and it sort of kind of sucks, in my opinion.
I may look it up later.
It's Mythic Realms, page 16.
Centuries later, Aroden, last of the Azlanti, was called to a young sea, where the heart of the lost <thingy> lay forgotten. He meant only to raise it from the water, but it burst from the depths as an entire island-a pillar crowned by a singular gem composed of starstuff, aboleth magic, god blood, and the scar tissue of Golarion it self. It was a thing of singular rarity in a multiverse of wonders, and beings across the planes took notice of it, and the being that stood before it. Aroden was the first to use this Starstone to gain the attention of gods, and in return for setting a guard against its misuse, he was elevated among the divine. Ever since, the Starstone has remained a threshold upon which one might petition the divine, a test or trap for those whose ambitions exceed their mortal forms.
And then, below that,
CLAIMING MYTHIC POWER
When you ascend to mythic power with the Starstone, you most likely gain tiers of the hierophant path and can entreat a deity for aid, swearing to further her goals in return for a measure of her power. The deity might immediately accept or reject you. If you're accepted, you can take the ist-tier divine patron hierophant path ability below. If you're rejected, after 24 hours you can petition a different deity or chose a different ability (or even a different mythic path, if you wish).
I'll put the divine patron ability in a new post, behind a spoiler, just in case it's considered poor form to post that sort of thing.
I... won't post all the various abilities it could grant, but a smattering of them to give the idea.
In any event:
James (and Eric Mona) confirming that it's canon that it turns you into a god, but reaffirming the Mythic Realms write-up anyway.
James noting that instantly giving them tier 3 with Divine Source is a "legit" method of granting godhood (or quasi-godhood), but that's for the sake of party balance, and he notes that the Starstone can do things differently, besides (the Test' is like a honeybadger, in other words).
My internet sucks and I can't read this post or thread, but I think it has something relevant
The Starstone can do more than give a few mythic tiers (later on, he mentions that it can give multiple different rewards and punishments, not just the one)
So I was wrong about his response (I'm probably conflating it with something else), but that's what I've been able to dig up.
Divine Patron (Su): When you encounter a creature who serves your sworn deity, treat its attitude as one step better. When you cast divine spells upon yourself or another creature who serves your deity, treat your caster level as 2 higher. In addition, every deity grants a modified version of a 3rd tier hierophant ability. You must select this path ability in order to gain the additional benefits; it is not automatically granted. If you already have mythic power and the listed ability upon taking divine patron, the other ability immediately turns into its modified version. In addition, a deity grants access to an ability from another path that reflects its interests and power.
Rovagug
Urgathoa
, Abadar
Desna
, , Calistria
1 Abadar (Divine Metamastery): You can expend one additional use of mythic power to increase the maximum spell slot level increase of the metamagic feat by 1 (to a maximum of 5 if you've taken this ability multiple times). For example, if you have this ability once, you can expend two uses of mythic power to pick a metamagic feat that increases the slot level of a spell by 2. Bonus Path Ability: Assured skill (marshal).<snip>
3 Calistria (Domain Immunity): Whenever you turn a spell, you can either reflect it back at the original caster or any other creature within 15 feet. Bonus Path Ability: Treacherous critical (trickster).
<snip>
5 Desna (Divine Potency): Every time you prepare spells, roll 1d4. You gain one bonus spell slot of a level equal to the result of that roll (with a maximum of the highest spell level you can cast). Once you've achieved 6th tier, you can select this ability a second time, allowing you to roll 2d4. Bonus Path Ability: Impossible speed (champion).
<snip>
15 Rovagug (Hurling Vengeance): Any greataxe you wield also gains the vicious weapon special ability. If the weapon is already vicious, it deals an addition 1d6 points of damage to the target. Bonus Path Ability: Flash of rage (champion).
<snip>
19 Urgathoa (Abundant Healing): You can use this ability to affect spells that deal damage. After rolling damage when using a spell or class ability that uses negative energy to deal damage (such as an inflict moderate wounds spell or an anti paladin's touch of corruption), you can deal a portion of that damage to other adjacent targets. You must deal at least 10 points of damage to a creature before selecting an additional creature to damage. Bonus Path Ability: Control the mindless (trickster).
Hope that helps explain the idea presented in the book!
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How about if the PCs make it into the Starstone Cathedral, endure all sorts of grueling tests . . . and find no Starstone?
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@ Tacticslion - Eric Mona has advised that where the Aroden article contradicts the Mythic Realms write up, the Aroden article overrides.
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I think I will run the test if the party makes the decision, but as many suggested, they probably won't make it all the way through. So it would be a dangerous way to get money, XP, and possibly mythic tiers rather quickly.
Now the question becomes how to run it. I will allow the party to go in together, and just say that the cathedral allows groups on a case by case basis. One idea I'm considering is that the cathedral does not allow a person to sleep or rest inside of it. Or that magical resources don't replenish. The only spells you can use are the spells you take into the cathedral.
Here's the big question. Is the party RIGHT in their supposition about the Big Bad? If not, than you might want to throw the hint that a more reachable advantage might be worth going for instead.In my 4-year-still-going campaign, I learned the Big Bad had sufficiently terrified the party of level 16s that one of them now believes her only hope of stopping the Big Bad is to take the Test of the Starstone. The other party members are reluctant but agree to take the test together if she decides to go through with it.
The problem is that with how I envision the Test, this mission is essentially suicidal. But I don't want to shut down the idea either. The party does have a demigoddess as an ally, but the goddess's presence on the Material Plane is extremely fragile and she can't do much to help.
They don't need to be gods to defeat the Big Bad. The Big Bad is powerful and has a lot of resources at their disposal. While the Big Bad is killable, the party definitely should try to acquire an ace in the hole. The current adventure I'm running will have the party gain a boon that will help against the Big Bad's enchantment and illusion spells (their signature abilities).
murder them horribly and I'm spectacular fashion
Artifacts are plot devices, so should they succeed you can have the starstone do whatever you need it to do so that the plot can move forward; it could have some additional power or ability that hasn't yet been published anywhere that does exactly what you need it to do for that particular game. If that means giving them a mythic tier instead of making them gods, then do that. It could also mean that the test is too strong for them, but they get partly in and acquire something that would help against the BBEG, realize that they can't really progress, and then leave with that thing.
Run a couple levels of Maure Castle for them as the Test of the Starstone. The problem should take care of itself real quick.
@ Tacticslion - Eric Mona has advised that where the Aroden article contradicts the Mythic Realms write up, the Aroden article overrides.
Ah! Thank you so much!
That's the thing I was remembering with, "That was a mistake, we changed it back, ignore that part." - thank you!
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Mythic-ly drunk?
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As part of the test you have to beat a better version of yourself... or technically, someone that is "More of what you are." For the typical person it's their character with mythic levels. For Cayden Cailean, it was someone that was MORE drunk.
That's a pretty cool idea. Makes me think of the scene in Final Fantasy 4 when Cecil becomes a paladin and has to defeat a much more powerful version of his dark knight self. I did consider a "conquer yourself" test where they fight a more powerful version of themselves or an alternate version based on their past. For example, one PC was studying to be an oracle until her parents were murdered and she fled the country to become a magus. Her test might require her to fight an oracle with 8th level spells.
How about if the PCs make it into the Starstone Cathedral, endure all sorts of grueling tests . . . and find no Starstone?
This. This is perfection.
Alternatively, they find out that the Stone stopped working with Aroden's death. It used to run on the same engine as prophecy, and now it's broken.
Here's the big question. Is the party RIGHT in their supposition about the Big Bad? If not, than you might want to throw the hint that a more reachable advantage might be worth going for instead.In my 4-year-still-going campaign, I learned the Big Bad had sufficiently terrified the party of level 16s that one of them now believes her only hope of stopping the Big Bad is to take the Test of the Starstone. The other party members are reluctant but agree to take the test together if she decides to go through with it.
The problem is that with how I envision the Test, this mission is essentially suicidal. But I don't want to shut down the idea either. The party does have a demigoddess as an ally, but the goddess's presence on the Material Plane is extremely fragile and she can't do much to help.
This is a good one. Another option is to build a McGuffin that will "weaken" the BBEG and make that a thing they will quest for. That will give them the confidence to beat the BBEG without taking the Test, AND has the added benefit that it doesn't have to do anything to the actual stats your BBEG has. Just make sure to make a call out to it during the pre-battle evil monologue, or at least somewhere like in a henchman's journal or something.
Edit to add: That idea I had above was a suggestion to have a mcguffin the are supposed to destroy. Make it something that has to stay where it is to function, like being on a ley line or something. We're reaching the end of my creativity, anyone that can keep a campaign running after 4 years will hopefully be able to turn this idea into something useful.
Unlike most adventures where the PC or PCs are supposed to succeed, I'd think in the case of a Starstone test, they'd maybe have a 5% chance of success.
Build a series of encounters with a theme following that guideline, and administer the test.